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Old Feb 05, 2011, 12:59 PM
On the Edge of Space
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Exit 4, South Jersey, USA
Joined Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMRTIC View Post
I'm in the process of finishing out another GWS P-38. I've debated whether or not to add functional rudders. I plan on hand launching my P-38, so I don't need them to assist in directional control on the ground. The only benefit I can see is having them to assist in an engine out situation, but I don't think it would be enough to compensate for the drag of a freewheeling prop on a dead motor. What's everyone else's opinion?
I had 3 crahes from a bad battery, where LVC would cut one motor before the other. On the third crash I finally saw what was happening and found the cause. At any rate, the plane immediately dropped a wing and then plummeted straight down, almost a right angle event. Ailerons and elevator were completely ineffective, no response at all. I don't believe a rudder would've worked either.

In other words, it was no longer flying, just an object falling out of the sky.
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 01:08 PM
jbc
WHO's your DADDY!!!
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Australia, SA, Adelaide
Joined Sep 2009
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Some info that may help others if you feel your 38 comes in a little hot then mix in flaperons and it makes a MASSIVE difference to this airframe, I did this with mine as I felt it was landing slightly quicker than I wanted (needed speed or would stall on approach) it also maybe because I use a slightly heavier non stock 4S power system. But anyway I mixed in flaperons and WOW what a difference, she now literally floats down at less than half the speed she used to
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 01:16 PM
On the Edge of Space
dLdV's Avatar
Exit 4, South Jersey, USA
Joined Dec 2007
1,446 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbc View Post
Some info that may help others if you feel your 38 comes in a little hot then mix in flaperons and it makes a MASSIVE difference I did this with mine as I felt it was landing slightly quicker than I wanted (needed speed or would stall on approach) it also maybe because I use a slightly heavier non stock 4S power system. But anyway I mixed in flaperons and WOW what a difference, she now literally floats down at less than half the speed she used to
Thanks for the advice, I'll have to give it a try.

On a related note, I was forever fixing the front landing gear, every 2 or 3 landings. If you have a heavy setup and land on grass, the DuBro 1/2A front landing gear is a good mod. I made mine slightly longer than stock. It hits the ground first and springs up for a gentle hop. I like that, myself, but you may not.

Posted before, but like the mod so much, gotta post again. Credit username RedLite for the idea.
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 05:03 PM
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United States, CA, Anaheim
Joined Aug 1999
1,290 Posts
SMRTIC, I think you're right about the rudders not having enough effect to control the plane if one motor goes out. I have had a motor go out in a different twin but they were brushed motors and the reason it quit was it just wore out and stopped. I've never had a brushless motor go out in my P-38's, but that doesn't mean it won't happen some day. It could happen from one of the motor wires coming unplugged or even a speed controller going out. If it does happen and you have altitude, your best bet is to just throttle back and land it. On my brushed motor situation, it was a Twinstar with two Speed 400 motors. The Twinstar is a high wing, stable, relatively slower flyer. All it did was slow down. I knew something was wrong, so I just landed it.
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 05:10 PM
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United States, CA, Anaheim
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dLdv, great idea on the nose gear. The factory set is a little weak. I'll have to try that on my next build.
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 05:24 PM
On the Edge of Space
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Exit 4, South Jersey, USA
Joined Dec 2007
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As long as the former is mounted strong, you won't regret it, I promise. So far all good flights and good landings, and it taxis a hex of a lot better. Real happy with that mod. The set is only $6 or so. You may want to get an extra wheel collar if you put the steering arm below the plastic mount. I just have shrink tube holding it in, but zero problems with that.
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 08:23 PM
2 Cor 5.21
JMAH's Avatar
Tennessee
Joined Jul 2009
775 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMRTIC View Post
I'm in the process of finishing out another GWS P-38. I've debated whether or not to add functional rudders. I plan on hand launching my P-38, so I don't need them to assist in directional control on the ground. The only benefit I can see is having them to assist in an engine out situation, but I don't think it would be enough to compensate for the drag of a freewheeling prop on a dead motor. What's everyone else's opinion?
I modded mine with functional rudders, mostly because I couldn't stand the looks of the oversized ailerons that GWS intended. I cut the ailerons down to scale size and added the rudders for aerodynamic effectiveness for coordinated turning and aerobatics.

In my engine-out experience, it made no difference to have the rudders. The motor seized up, the prop didn't even windmill, and she rolled into a low altitude spin in a hurry.

Plus, it was just a fun project to make them work!

Jeff
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Old Feb 06, 2011, 03:44 AM
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Darwin Australia
Joined May 2002
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I adopted a two pronged approach to an engine out situation with my P-38. Firstly I made operating rudders. Secondly I got rid of the high thrust 3 blade propellers and changed to high pitch 2 blade propellers. These have less thrust and this means that the rudders have a chance of overcoming the offset thrust of an engine out situation.

Ken
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 07:45 PM
Luvin' Life
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United States, MI, Portage
Joined Apr 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMAH View Post
...by crashing it in a field!

I thought I noticed that one motor turned slower than the other, but ignored that as irrelevant. This afternoon, DoubleH and I tried to get in a quick flight before supper to test out my last repairs.

Turns out the motor issue wasn't irrelevant. On a fly-by it started making a nasty screeching noise, followed by the prop coming to a standstill.

My attempt to maneuver to an emergency landing resulted in a spin and ground impact. Pretty much every component on the plane is broken except the boom-tail joint I repaired last week!

Call the carbon-fiber company. We're gonna need some spars!

(Also call HeadsUpRC. The GWS motors are going away.)

Jeff
Jeff,
Sorry to see the result off these crummy GWS motors. I just recently picked up the P-38 with brushless motors. After removing the motors from the plastic I found them "knotchy" when turning them by hand. One wouldn't even turn at times. I took them apart and found metal filling the can. The outer magnets are so poorly made that they fall apart and jam the motor.
I went with twin E-Flite park 400's and Castle 18amp ESC with separate BEC.
I saw a lighting on here I loved in yellow so I went with that scheme

I hope she flies well when the weather warms up

This has been my on and off winter project and I love the way it has turned out.

Blessings Y'all,

Jay
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Old Feb 11, 2011, 07:15 AM
2 Cor 5.21
JMAH's Avatar
Tennessee
Joined Jul 2009
775 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Radioflyer View Post
...After removing the motors from the plastic I found them "knotchy" when turning them by hand. One wouldn't even turn at times. I took them apart and found metal filling the can. The outer magnets are so poorly made that they fall apart and jam the motor...

Blessings Y'all,

Jay
Your experience sounds eerily familiar! I've not taken the seized motor apart yet, but when turning it by hand it feels like it has rocks in it!

Your lightning looks great. What spinners and props are you using?

And very nice application of "y'all"--we southerners appreciate that!

Jeff
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Old Feb 11, 2011, 05:35 PM
Luvin' Life
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United States, MI, Portage
Joined Apr 2007
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Hey Jeff,
The spinners are Dubro 2" 3 blade cat# 541.
The props are Master Airscrew 8x6x3's. One is a pusher and the other in a regular.
I have 2 blade APC 9x6's also one pusher on regular.
I'm wondering if the 3 blades will belly land OK or if they'll grab.

Blessings!

Jay
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Old Feb 11, 2011, 06:51 PM
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Tennessee
Joined Apr 2009
5,476 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Radioflyer View Post
Hey Jeff,
The spinners are Dubro 2" 3 blade cat# 541.
The props are Master Airscrew 8x6x3's. One is a pusher and the other in a regular.
I have 2 blade APC 9x6's also one pusher on regular.
I'm wondering if the 3 blades will belly land OK or if they'll grab.

Blessings!

Jay
Never had a problem belly flopping with 3 bladers. I agree w/ Jeff, nice plane.

Alan
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 07:53 PM
2 Cor 5.21
JMAH's Avatar
Tennessee
Joined Jul 2009
775 Posts
Motors on the way

I finally broke down and ordered two PowerUp 450 Sports to replace the failed GWS motors. Package is in the mail, so they say.

I'm hoping the weather will cooperate and there will be a flight report by the beginning of next week!

It'll be ugly as I still haven't replaced the smashed nose of the center gondola. Need to find a piece of foam to glue on and form into a new one. I don't see putting one of those flimsy plastic GWS ones back on it.

Jeff
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Old Feb 27, 2011, 08:14 PM
2 Cor 5.21
JMAH's Avatar
Tennessee
Joined Jul 2009
775 Posts
Motors are installed and rarin' to go (naturally the weather isn't cooperating in the least--high winds, thunderstorms, etc...maybe Tuesday).

But we did power it up, and it felt powerful. Like it could be real fast. Flight report to follow, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Jeff
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Old Feb 27, 2011, 08:54 PM
Luvin' Life
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United States, MI, Portage
Joined Apr 2007
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Jeff,

I pray the best on the next flight! The weather here hasn't been flight friendly either.

Blessings!

Jay
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