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Old Jun 27, 2007, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shschon
You are too spoiled by brushless power your speed judgement is too biased.
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Old Jun 27, 2007, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiflyer89
Thanks for all the input folks. Up here we get density altitudes of 10,000' - not as critical to electric as gas but it still makes a difference.

So far my stock Tiger Moth, P51, Corsair and Formosa all flew - but barely. I ended going with a GWS 350C on the Tiger Moth (makes it almost 3D), 350C on the Corsair with big Kan NiMHs and brushless on the Formosa. I'm not a speed freak (I'd rather keep them close...) but I do need power to get me out of trouble. Props do seem to make a big difference - although it looks like I ended settling with GWS 9X7 for most, don't think I've tried a 9X6. (I had to wipe the dust off the prop to read the 9X7, like I said it's been a while since they've been out... :-P )
Try a GWS 9 x 7.5 HD propeller as it is stiffer than the 9 x 7 and far more suited to the higher power of brusless motors.

GWS 9 x 7 RS on a GWS2208-18 using 2 cells
7.97Amps
7.38Volts
333 grams thrust (11.89 oz)
4,860 RPM
58.8Watts
32.22 MPH pitch speed


GWS 9 x 7.5 HD on a GWS2208-18 using 2 cells
7.19 Amps
7.13Volts
281 grams thrust (10.4 oz)
4,920 RPM
51.3Watts
34.94 MPH pitch speed

The 9 x 7.5 has less current draw and a higer pitch speed but not as much thrust. I find that on the GWS Warbirds a higher pitch speed is more important than a higher thrust.

Ken
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Old Jun 27, 2007, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Red 61
Wow... Well, it looks to me like it is constantly tip stalling (and recovering).

...and I swear that bird in the video (it shows up twice) is flying faster than the P-38.
Red

I wonder if you actually know what a tip stall is. When I was learning to fly full sized gliders my instructor demonstrated them to me. Then I had to provoke them and demonstrate that I could recover the glider to level flight before we went on to my learning how to land the glider.

Towards the end of this video is a deliberate full on tip stall, complete with wild gyrations, and the recovery from it. The maneuver is called an avalanche.

Some birds fly at more than 100 MPH.
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Old Jun 27, 2007, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensp
I wonder if you actually know what a tip stall is.
You're kidding, right?

My GWS ME-109 and GWS P-51 Mustang have both taught me about tip stalls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kensp
At the end of this video is a full on tip stall and recovery from it.
The GWS FW-190 in that video looks VERY stable. The video of your GWS P-38 looks like it's tip stalling from wing to wing through most of the video -- as if the CG is too far back, and it's flying too slow...

...or something...
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Old Jun 27, 2007, 04:42 PM
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Red

Your analysis of my GWS-38 video indicates that you are confusing the results of sensitive ailerons with tip stalling.

Ken
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Old Jun 27, 2007, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensp
Your analysis of my GWS-38 video indicates that you are confusing the results of sensitive ailerons with tip stalling.
Yeah, I thought it might be that -- or wind...

Honestly -- one time (about three months ago), my GWS P-51 lost her spinner, prop, and prop adapter... The CG shifted aft, and my airspeed dropped to almost nothing. The airplane tipstalled from wing to wing -- I fought desperately to keep her level, but I could only keep her level for about 1 second before she would tipstall again. My point to this story is that the video of your GWS P-38 looks similar. That's my experience talking -- I was not on-site to see you fly, so I could be mistaken.

EDIT --> Yes, somehow I managed to get her on the ground without a scratch on her! She missed the parking lot by about 1 foot, and landed perfectly level in the soft grass! However, luck had a lot to do with it, and I'm not sure I could do it again (nor do I wish to try)!!!
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Old Jun 27, 2007, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Red 61
The airplane tipstalled from wing to wing -- I fought desperately to keep her level, but I could only keep her level for about 1 second before she would tipstall again.
Red

Again you seem to deminstrate that you do not understand what a tip stall is. I quote your statement of "tips talled fom wing to wing".

I assume that you are taking about the wing stalling from one wing tip right across the wing to the other wing tip and this is not a tip stall. If this is not what you meant would you please clarify your original statement.

A tip stall is the beginning of a spin. Only one of the wing tips stops flying and so the aircraft turns in the direction of that non flying wing tip. If this condition is not corrected then the aeroplane keeps turning in that one direction, normaly with its nose down, spinning untill it hits the ground.

What you are describing sounds like a completly stalled wing with the aeroplane oscilating from one side side to other side.

Ken
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Old Jun 27, 2007, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensp
Red

Again you seem to deminstrate that you do not understand what a tip stall is. I quote your statement of "tips talled fom wing to wing" and I assume that you are taking about the wing stalling from one wing tip right across the wing to the other wing tip and this is not a tip stall. If this is not what you meant would you please clarify your original statement.

A tip stall is the beginning of a spin. Only one of the wing tips stops flying and so the aircraft turns in the direction of that non flying wing tip. If this condition is not corrected then the aeroplane keeps turning in that one direction, normaly with its nose down, spinning untill it hits the ground.

What you are describing sounds like a completly stalled wing with the aeroplane oscilating from one side side to other side.

Ken
...and what happens when you tip stall to the left, begin to spin, correct (level out), and tip stall to the right, begin to spin, correct (level out)...
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Old Jun 27, 2007, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Red 61
...and what happens when you tip stall to the left, correct (level out), and tip stall to the right?
Thank you for clarifying that you meant that one tip would stall and, after you recovered from that, then the opposing tip would stall.

I assume that you were using only the rudder to control the turns. If so then you were definitely having alternate right and left hand wing tip stalls.

At my age, my reactions would probably not be fast enough for me to land safely in a case like that. I did have a similar but milder case when the cocpit canopy came off my GWS Me 109. The Rx was stuck to the canopy with double sided tape so the canopy remained with the model but was flapping around beside the fuselage about 1 1/2 inches further back than normal. This moved the CG back to more than 70 mm from the LE. Luckily although the ailerons became extremly senitive, so that the model gyrated from side to side because I overcorected, the model did not want to tip stall. If this had happend the model would have spun into the ground because I do not have a rudder fitted.

Ken
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 04:18 AM
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Red 61

I have just uploaded to my server the second version of the video of my GWS-38 flying. This second version has footage of the model making two consecutive loops. The power and CG used when this footage was taken was exactly the same as with the rest of the video.

If my GWS-38 is alternatively tip stalling, as you described your Mustang doing, then it could not have made one loop, let alone two, without it screwing out to the right or the left.

Ken
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 08:16 AM
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Okay -- I'm impressed.

What's your AUW again?
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 08:43 AM
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Ken,

Nice video.

You ahve been in the hobby for long. Any chance to run into the birds in the air?

or have you ever seen it?

Ray
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 10:07 AM
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I'm not Ken, but I *think* I hit a hawk with my GWS ME-109 one time...

I didn't realize I was as close to the hawk as the hawk seemd to think I was... The hawk was gliding, and suddenly performed an emergency maneuver. When he recovered, he flaped his wings very quickly, and got the heck out of there! (Most of the time, hawks glide around on thermals -- they very rarely flap their wings!)

I landed my airplane, and noted the absense of blood or feathers. I really hope I did NOT hit him!
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 10:40 AM
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Ray,
There are red tailed hawks that live nearby a park where I fly. Sometimes they will fly over to investigate. They like my GWS Slowstick and sometimes will fly in circles with it. They totally ignore my small ducted fan planes. But they hate my Formosa??
When I fly the Formosa they scream at it and dive at it. I think someday they will get it
I try to stay away from them. They are great big beautiful birds and I am flying in their yard.
jimbo
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Old Jun 28, 2007, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eljimb0
They are great big beautiful birds and I am flying in their yard.
Exactly.

There are swifts that LOVE to chase my GWS ME-109 around. There will be three or four of them, each, taking turns on my tail -- I shake one, and another one drops in behind me! It's kind of fun!

However, sometimes I wonder if these birds think they are fighting for their lives...
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