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Old Oct 13, 2006, 09:09 AM
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gerg's Avatar
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Joined Sep 2004
229 Posts
Well, I got to maiden mine this morning. not to bad at all. RTF weight is right around 9.5oz. I think it could be a little lighter though. I also had a hell of a time putting the thing in KE. I'll try more expo and see if it helps. But it hovers very nicely, harriers are rock solid, flat spins are ok, but i think i'm gonna move the CG back a little to see if it'll flatten out a little more. The roll rate on high rates is stupid fast. At least 5/sec. If I can shave another oz off somewhere, this is gonna be a great indoor plane.

Cheers
Greg
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Old Oct 13, 2006, 10:28 AM
Registered User
Orlando
Joined Jun 2003
338 Posts
Gerg,

What electronics/hardware are you running in your 3D Riot, motor,servos,ESC etc...

Thanks
Luis
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Old Oct 13, 2006, 03:44 PM
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gerg's Avatar
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Joined Sep 2004
229 Posts
Great Planes Rimfire(the original one), CC PHX10, 3xHS-55's, PQ 3S 800mah 20C on a 10x3.8APC SF Prop. I think i'm gonna go down to an 8x4 on 2S to shave a little weight.

Greg
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Old Oct 13, 2006, 06:12 PM
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United States, OR, Corvallis
Joined Aug 2005
521 Posts
That's a pretty heavy setup, gerg - if you're at 9.5oz with those parts, you're doing great! The recommended motor will shave an ounce by itself. Toss in a lighter battery, and you're down below 8oz.

On the original Rimfire with 3S, I found that I actually got better flying power out of a 9X3.8 than out of a 10X3.8 - the 10-incher just put it over that outrunner hump where the current goes up but the thrust doesn't much. Either way, I bet the Riot is pretty ballistic on your setup.
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Old Oct 14, 2006, 12:57 AM
"I passed on the kool-aid"
Waco, TX
Joined Jan 2004
3,884 Posts
I flew it again this evening and got 5-7 minutes of mixed flying and the battery was not 100% topped off. The elevator issues were alot better today bu there still is a bit of instability it seems at times. I am going to try it indoors when I get a chance as the slightest amount of wing will cause it to sideslip a bit. I was able to get a few hovers in today and felt comfotable enough to do a tail touch in a harrier/hover. Knife edge flight is horrendous though with ALOT of coupling. Just need to sit down and figure out a mix i guess as it is pretty much impossible without it I think. When I roll into KE and start to apply a hint of rudder it will roll 180 degrees before you can catch it. Pitch coupling is there but it is more roll coupling that anything else. Again this this excels at high alpha, harriers and the like. Snaps were ok but I still need more aileron throws to speed things up. Due to the coupling, rolling harriers are pretty much off limits now as well. Waterfalls both ways are very tight and for the most part it will track straight through the maneuver. If I can get this thing to KE and lose just a bit of weight (still waiting on the de novo) I will be happy.
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Old Oct 14, 2006, 11:22 AM
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Newmarket,Ontario, Canada
Joined Dec 2002
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papasmirf i found the same problem but when i put 60% (or more!)of expo on the rudder/elevator it made things a lot easier. seems the rudder is very powerfull but responds smoothly if that makes any sence. it takes TINY amounts to knife edge my friends plane and it just was a total bear till i calmed it down with more expo. i was seeing about 1/4" rudder to hold knife if you get what i mean. getting into level flight makes all the controlls real sensitive still the surfaces are just too powerfull at speed need to make a mix that with over 3/4 throttle it dumps it to a lower rate setting almost it gets crazy fast!

just my 2cents
ededge2002
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Old Oct 14, 2006, 01:20 PM
"I passed on the kool-aid"
Waco, TX
Joined Jan 2004
3,884 Posts
I have -100% expo I think on both the elevator and rudder and am flying both of them on low rates most of the time. Full rates on the elevator is past 45 degrees throw but is manageable when doing 3D but not at speed obviously.
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Old Oct 14, 2006, 01:35 PM
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Bud Morrison's Avatar
Lancaster Pa
Joined Jun 2003
1,970 Posts
Hah oh joy my DX6 has no expo on rudder
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Old Oct 14, 2006, 01:47 PM
GIMMIE FOAM!!!
AirNerd's Avatar
Edwardsville KS
Joined Oct 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Morrison
Hah oh joy my DX6 has no expo on rudder

Snap! LOL
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Old Oct 14, 2006, 06:24 PM
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gerg's Avatar
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Joined Sep 2004
229 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Sebens
That's a pretty heavy setup, gerg - if you're at 9.5oz with those parts, you're doing great! The recommended motor will shave an ounce by itself. Toss in a lighter battery, and you're down below 8oz.

I agree, it really is to heavy. It still flies really well though. The LHS is getting 2 of the recommended rimfires in this week, so i'll probably get one of thoes. They also have a couple of 2S 640 Dualsky packs. I'll give them a try too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by papasmurf
Knife edge flight is horrendous though with ALOT of coupling. Just need to sit down and figure out a mix i guess as it is pretty much impossible without it I think. When I roll into KE and start to apply a hint of rudder it will roll 180 degrees before you can catch it. Pitch coupling is there but it is more roll coupling that anything else.
Thats the exact same thing that happened to me. I'm gonna keep playing around with the mixes and see what happenes.
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Old Oct 18, 2006, 04:46 PM
X-15 Jockey
burkefj's Avatar
Joined Oct 2006
2,451 Posts
Riot First flight...

Well, I also picked one of these up and I'm glad that I read all the postings first.

Number one, the kit is well made, but they don't talk at all about opening up places in the fuse for the battery and receiver access, also there isn't much place to put the battery, I wound up gluing in a cross brace of balsa in the nose section to put velcro on to hold the battery.

The hardware is really garbage, it took me probably 4-5 hours of screwing around cleaning up all the flash on the z bends and reaming out the control horns to get them to fit without breaking or being too tight, and reaming out the holes so the carbon rods would fit, and I think the standoffs are too short. I glued a piece of stiff plastic tube onto the end of the standoff to make it slightly longer.

Mine is set up with the recommended outrunner motor, gws nano receiver, one futaba 3110 micro and two slightly larger 8 gm micro servos. I have the recommended silver speed control and wound up using a thunder 730 3s pack since I needed the weight to get near the recommended CG(I'm slightly behind nominal but in front of the rearmost recommended). All up weight with decals was just over 9 oz, the airframe with speed control and motor was around 6 so 8 would be really hard to do.

Flight. I'm so glad I read the posts on the toning down the throws with dual rate and putting exponential on the rudder. Set up somewhere inbetween nominal and high rate recommended(1/2 inch for ailerons, 3/8 for elevator and 5/8 for rudder with expo). It took off of a hard runway very quickly and due to no tail wheel the drag kept it tracking pretty straight, no problems. It took a bit of down trim but aileron was ok. Same as others had posted, this is really really really pitch sensetive, even with minimal elevator. Set up with minimum throws it performs like a pretty good aerobatic airplane(about like a mini ultra stick) except for the pitch(did I say really sensetive?). On high rates I've never seen anything roll this quick, at least four per second, just tap the aileron full deflection on the stick and let go, about as fast as you can, and you have one complete roll.

Flew for about 15 minutes before it cut out and it flew pretty reasonable, with most manouvers at 1/3 throttle or a bit less.

The problem I have with it are the hardware, and once you setup the standoffs for the carbon rods, it is hard to move the throws on the control arms, they are really way too much movement, and dual rate doesn't really give the same precision of movement that a full throw servo connection closer to the spline would have.

But performance wise, I'm pretty impressed, with the stock setup and that 730 battery at 9 oz, I think it's pretty rediculous, if you can get it lighter with a 3s and have it ballance right, it would be nuts. I don't know of I would fly it in a cul-de-sac or street, but any park woul do as long as you had a hard place to land to prevent ripping off the wheel pants(I actually set up my first two landings on short grass, and other than rotating the wheel pants around, it didn't damage them.)

Frank
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Old Oct 18, 2006, 08:52 PM
Scott Stoops
sukhoi26mx's Avatar
United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Mar 2002
8,412 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Morrison
Hah oh joy my DX6 has no expo on rudder
Simple solution...

http://www.dimensionengineering.com/Expoduo.htm

Not free, but a good deal nonetheless.

Scott
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Old Oct 18, 2006, 10:34 PM
"I passed on the kool-aid"
Waco, TX
Joined Jan 2004
3,884 Posts
I am glad someone else is with me on the frustration with the hardware. Once you get it assembled it seems to work ok but there are so many similar planes with better execution of the hardware. The shockflyer hardware is much better I think and allows some adjustability. I have not found the roll rate to be spectacular yet but am going to switch servos to get some more throw hopefully. I cut the elevator throws down a bunch and things are a bit better. At slow speeds such as a harrier 45+ degrees of deflection is not a problem but if you let it "get on the wing" with high rates on for just a second it becomes a roller coaster ride. Still waiting on the de novo to show up so I can try a bit lighter setup.
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Old Oct 19, 2006, 07:55 PM
GIMMIE FOAM!!!
AirNerd's Avatar
Edwardsville KS
Joined Oct 2005
1,742 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukhoi26mx
Simple solution...

http://www.dimensionengineering.com/Expoduo.htm

Not free, but a good deal nonetheless.

Scott

Just heard about the...DX7, not sure if it do.


I just brought my tiny yellow Riot home today!


I'll Be BACK
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Old Oct 19, 2006, 09:35 PM
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Bud Morrison's Avatar
Lancaster Pa
Joined Jun 2003
1,970 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirNerd
Just heard about the...DX7, not sure if it do.


I just brought my tiny yellow Riot home today!


I'll Be BACK
Yeah soon as they come up with a part number for one I will have it on backorder
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