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Old Jul 26, 2006, 11:12 PM
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w0ace's Avatar
United States, OK, Coweta
Joined Jul 2005
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Faster set-up for GWS 'stang!

Hey guys,

Been flying my Estarter and Me-109 on a BP12. I'd like to have something with a little more speed still yet. I fly the Me-109 with BP12, APC 8x8, CommonSence 3C 1650's. It hit 71mph max on the radar gun. I'd like to have something faster. What do you guys suggest for my GWS Mustang? Something that will get me up towards the 100mph mark.........? Something that would turn the APC 8x8 at around 13K!
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Old Jul 27, 2006, 02:28 AM
That thing's operational!
birdlives1955's Avatar
New Orleans/Dallas
Joined Jan 2006
4,706 Posts
Hi!

Hmmm.... Wow, that's cool that you flew 71 mph with the bp12! Sweet!

As far as getting your GWS Mustang to go 100mph, there are a couple of options I can think of..... The first, an possibly the hardest to work out right now, is the Little Screamers parkjet special motor. That is a crazy motor, and I've seen a vid of Rvincent's GWS warbird (can't remember which one) going at least 100mph with that motor! It was nuts! You can PM Rvincent (his real name is bob) here on the forum or go to the pusher prop forum and look up the little screamers thread and ask for bob or scott....

those guys are the main guys with the little screamers company I think, and they may have a motor or two lying around they could sell you.... Unfortunately they are RIGHT in the middle of getting their company ready for a big large scale production run, up until now they have just been making all of their motors by hand but now they are growing into a larger company and will have a large scale production unit of their motors! However, I'm not sure whether or not you'll be able to get one right now because of that, they are really busy and I don't think they are taking orders right now...

However, there's still another option!

You can get a really powerful outrunner like a Himax 2025-5300 and use it direct drive with a little tiny 3X3 prop or something like that.... Believe it or not, that set-up should still produce enough thrust to fly your plane, but because of the tiny width of the prop the pitch speed might be about 100mph so that might be worth a shot!

Actually I just looked it up.... a 3X2 prop and a 3S pack using the himax 2025-5300 will generate roughly 14.8 oz. of thrust and a 100.2 mph pitch speed while only pulling AROUND 12 amps.... however, the amp readings an other data of this online calculator I use might be a bit optimistic.... I'm not really sure, I just use it to get approximate readings to figure out set-ups that SHOULD theoretically work, so performance may vary from those results.... However, a Himax 2025-5300 with a 3X2 prop direct drive on 3S would probably get you in the range you are looking for....

A 3X3 prop would generate even more speed, but to be honest, I'm not sure about where you'll find 3X2 or 3X3 props.... you might have to cut down an APC 4.2X2 prop to a 3X2 in order to get it to work.... Or maybe cut down some 4X3 prop or something to a 3X3....

GWS makes both a 3X3 and a 3X2 prop but the GWS props would probably just disinegrate instantly with that kind of power applied to them! However, they make some other props with some harder material I think, if you can get one of the grey or black props in the 3X2 or 3X3 size it MIGHT hold up, I guess it's worth a try....

Oh and a note about the Little Screamers PJS motors.... they spin small props.... I think the largest prop they reccomend using with it on 3S is something like a 6X4.... but you should be able to get all that info in the little screamers thread.....

have fun! I'll be interested to know if either of those set-ups work out for you! Or, I'll also be interested to know if you find something different that works too!

God bless you, and have fun!

your friend,

Matt
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Old Jul 27, 2006, 10:33 AM
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patrick181's Avatar
USA, MO, St Charles
Joined Nov 2005
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Wow 71mph on a $20 motor, and you want faster?
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Old Jul 27, 2006, 12:03 PM
Whistling Death
RC4ZEKE's Avatar
WA,USA
Joined Jun 2004
1,544 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdlives1955

You can get a really powerful outrunner like a Himax 2025-5300

Matt


I think he meant too say inrunner
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Old Jul 27, 2006, 07:54 PM
Seeing the Farside.
Blaze.45's Avatar
Seattle WA, USA
Joined Aug 2005
4,285 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC4ZEKE
I think he meant too say inrunner

I think HE meant to say "to" instead of "too"
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Old Jul 27, 2006, 07:58 PM
Seeing the Farside.
Blaze.45's Avatar
Seattle WA, USA
Joined Aug 2005
4,285 Posts
Lol, but seriously... An LS PJ is a huge step up on speed. Very good motor though.

Another step up that fits between a BP-12 and an LS PJ... is an AXI 2212-20 on I think a 9x7 APC. Something like that.

But I saw a video of the guy with his mustang on that combo... talk about authority. It sounded like a dang V-8 going by at 80-90mph in a slight dive. And about 70mph level.

-Chris
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Old Jul 27, 2006, 11:03 PM
If it floats....sail it!
FoamCrusher's Avatar
Elk Grove, CA
Joined Sep 2002
4,162 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdlives1955
You can get a really powerful outrunner like a Himax 2025-5300 and use it direct drive with a little tiny 3X3 prop or something like that...
Matt:

The Himax 2025-5400 on 3S1P TP-2100 PL with a GWS 3x3 will hold together and will push a small slippery airframe to over 100 mph. The guys that have the 24" EPP Concrushers do it all the time - do a search in the Foamies board of "Concrusher".

Mine only has a Razor 300 (4900 Kv) on it and it still will go into the 80's. Your prop choices in that size are very limited and if you want a better prop you have to cut down an APC or Graupner to stay within the heat limitations of the motor.

Chris: I had that Axi in an Alfa Fw-190 on 3S1P and while it flat goes, it is no where near 100 mph. With either a 8.5 x 5.5 or a 9 x 6 (with some cooling air) it is a nice combo and is ever so quiet as it goes by - much nicer than a gearbox. The only downside is that you get a very limited choice of props at a given current draw since you can't change gearing. For the right plane, it is a great motor. It hits the sweet spot in the Alfa as far as speed/weight/power goes.

FC
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Old Jul 28, 2006, 09:33 AM
Seeing the Farside.
Blaze.45's Avatar
Seattle WA, USA
Joined Aug 2005
4,285 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoamCrusher

Chris: I had that Axi in an Alfa Fw-190 on 3S1P and while it flat goes, it is no where near 100 mph. With either a 8.5 x 5.5 or a 9 x 6 (with some cooling air) it is a nice combo and is ever so quiet as it goes by - much nicer than a gearbox. The only downside is that you get a very limited choice of props at a given current draw since you can't change gearing. For the right plane, it is a great motor. It hits the sweet spot in the Alfa as far as speed/weight/power goes.

FC

Hmmm I see, maybe I saw that video all wrong. But it looked dang fast... and I distinctly remember that choppy motor sound as it zoomed by. But you're probably right since you've actually had that setup.

Thanks for the experience sharing FC

-Chris

PS: Do you mean the 2015-5400? or the 2025-5300?
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Old Jul 28, 2006, 11:41 AM
Hooper, full throttle!
Tommy D's Avatar
USA, NY, East Islip
Joined Feb 2004
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One of the fastest parkies I have owned was a GWS Corsair. Axi 2212-20 on a Tanic 3S 1550 and an Aeronaut prop. It most likely went an "honest" high 50, low 60MPH. Thats based on RPM and prop pitch only.

YET its funny the plane was faster then others whom claimed there birds were 80+.

Just a FYI.

Tommy D

P.S. and having seen the BP-12 in a model I would go out on a limb and say the 2212-20 would blow it's doors <wings> off in the same model.
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Old Jul 28, 2006, 11:55 AM
That thing's operational!
birdlives1955's Avatar
New Orleans/Dallas
Joined Jan 2006
4,706 Posts
Hi guys,

Yup I did mean to say "an inrunner like a himax 2025-5300"! Sorry about that, mind slip!

Glad to know that it'll actually hold together, that might be a fun set-up to try sometime!

I hope you find the right motor! Actually, I just heard from Bob and Scott at Littlescreamers in the LS PJ thread that it'll only be a couple of more days before their first production run of motors is available for purchase! So, if I were you, I'd wait for the LS PJ if you're really looking for speed! I've seen vids of GWS warbids with those motors, they are scary! Nothing I'd want to try to fly myself, unless the Tx had a limiter on it that woulnd't let you go past half throttle!

May God bless you, and I hope you find the motor that you are looking for!

-Matt
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Old Jul 28, 2006, 08:16 PM
If it floats....sail it!
FoamCrusher's Avatar
Elk Grove, CA
Joined Sep 2002
4,162 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze.45
PS: Do you mean the 2015-5400? or the 2025-5300?
You can use either one, but the 2015 gets SUPER HOT and the 2025 only gets HOT with the 3S pack. Remember, this is a 5400 RMP/Volt motor run direct drive so you are pumping a lot of power through it. This is one place where size matters, as in the ability to dump heat.

The 2015 is about the size of my Razor 300 and Razor Micro Heli V2. They are good for about 15A. The 2025 is closer to a Speed 400 brushless size motor, like the Mega 16/15/4 or Warp4, which run in the 25A-30A region...thus the use of the 3S1P 2100 mAh 15C Thunder Power Pro-Lite packs.

BTW, if you can stuff a Mega 16/15/5 or a /6 in your warbird (they are the size and weight of a Speed 400 but have WAY more power), they make a great DD motor when run on an APC 6x4 or Aeronaut 6.5 x 4 on 3S1P 2100 mAh packs. I have a /5 in a 14.5 oz (24.5 AUW) S&B Spitfire and it works great. You might even like the 16/15/4 on a 6x4 if you are out for real speed. I ran the Spit on that just once and dropped back to the /5 because I found the /4 too fast for me. If the wings stayed on the 109, the Mega would be a kick! Motor weight would not be an issue since the GWS all need nose weight any way.

FC
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Old Jul 29, 2006, 07:24 PM
but it's a nice obsession
jgmtens's Avatar
Sandy, Utah
Joined Apr 2003
1,049 Posts
The problem is drag. The parasite drag climbs exponentially with speed and on this model with the 34" straight wing you need more than 8 oz. of (at speed) thrust to get it past 60 mph. You can have a pitch speed of 130 with a 3X3 prop and you still won't be able to get past that drag. So you need both thrust and pitch speed to overcome the drag and go faster. That is why at an rpm of around 9000 a 9 X 7.5 prop is faster than an 8 X 8 on this model. Once you get the right balance between thrust and pitch speed then you need power. The more watts you can deliver at the top end, the faster you can go. To get back to your original post, the drag at 100 mph would probably be around 20 oz. so to get there would take a very big motor. Jon
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