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Old Jul 10, 2006, 10:35 AM
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Aaaala Baaama
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Build Log
When less is more (36" Ritewing Demon Project)

What do you get when you cross a Thoroughbred race horse with a Gray-Hound? (Ooops....OK. Wipe that thought COMPLETELY from your twisted imagination. Bad example.....)

What do you get when you cross the HOTTEST 40" wing on the planet with the HOTTEST mini-wing on the planet? You got it... a high-speed edge-of-your-seat in your face 36" precision razor-blade.... and that, my friends, is what I'm building now!! The latest of the RiteWing Demon lineage.... the 36" Demon!

Lets see... there's a 22" 'er, and a 40" 'er.... Why something in between? I asked myself the same thing... and the answer was clear. The 40" Demon is an all-out speed machine.... capable of blistering aerobatics, ripping fly-by's, and vertical performance you must see to believe... all in a "full-sized" package! The 22" Mini-D is an incredible "park" sized wing; same great Demon manners and performance on a smaller scale. It's aerobatics are most crisp when flown at a pretty good pace.... jaw-dropping to say the least. Where's the 36" Demon fit in? Well, it's a Demon airfoil, so it will exhibit all the GREAT high-speed manners of the other Demons. It's a thinner cut of the foil with a shorter span however, so speed is achievable on modest power-trains (e.g., lighter) while sweep angle is optimized to enable close "in your face" manueverability that I enjoy so much (ala 40" TL) in places I get to fly the most... close-quarter parks and fields. Additionally, the smaller size and profile allow for more flexibility in component selection while maintaining big-wing speed and aerobatic ability! In short, the 36" Demon is shaping up to be THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS! Blistering speed and "in your face" handling... two of my favorite things

My shopping list for this project is similar to my others... if you've followed my building-habit this year. Power system will consist of a HET 4W motor, 3S and 4S 3700's, HS-225MG's, the smallest speed control I can get away with (gotta select a prop and do some power tests), and receiver which is still "up in the air."

Build technique is conventional RITEWING, though I am keeping it simple by stuffing Rx and speed control in the same bay and using the Rx onboard BEC. This has worked fine with low-end to middle of the road setups for me in the circumstances I operate, so I'm going with it. I am, however, cutting a battery bay to accommodate 2x 2S packs, or 1x 3S pack. Can't scrimp on the battery space, now can we?

I am beefing up the fiberglass in the mid section, especially over/under the battery bay, motor mount area, etc. My experience points to the advantage the modest weight increase lends to improved tracking and stability, while improving wing strength. The power train selected will not have any problem moving this wing around as fast as I wish... even with an extra ounce of Henry's, so I do not see performance suffering (funny... it's the same power train as I have in my 50" TL... WHAT AM I THINKING???!!!).

I'll get things rolling and will start posting pics and progress regularly. Don't be surprised if things get "fast forwarded" as I have had the cores a couple weeks and have already made some progress... and y'all have seen enough examples of my wing builds to know how it all comes together. Like always though, lemme know if you have specific questions about any step along the way. This is all posted for your benefit, not mine...

Yup... Just what the Dr. ordered... Dr. Klique that is... He's got me hooked and keeps me on the line with continuous innovation... offering cutting-edge improvements with each new kit offering! Any guess what's next? Maybe a 60" wing??? Who knows....... but you can bet those wheels are turning... I've never seen a more foreward-looking crew than RiteWing and Monsoon.... They've got my number; apparently on speed dial!

Chuck (in Aaaala Baaama)
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Old Jul 10, 2006, 12:58 PM
The Original Slacker
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Bristol, TN
Joined Apr 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckand
I've never seen a more foreward-looking crew than RiteWing and Monsoon.... They've got my number; apparently on speed dial!

Chuck (in Aaaala Baaama)
Yeah, I've had Ck on my speed dial for a few months now (I know I'm a sicko slacker). Lary I hear is out of controll with his customer service. Thats the way to go for sure for any RiteWing stuff.

Can't wait for the build pics and final videos. Gonn'a be fun hearing that "thes is my nuw RyteWang TL thutty six...etc".

Get on it chuck so we can hear all about it...

-Dave
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Old Jul 11, 2006, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pezzer
Get on it chuck so we can hear all about it...

-Dave
Well, it's mostly done but the "cry'in." I've got some trim work to do tonight and covering will be done. Cover Elevons, hinge, etc, and she'll be ready for prime time. I'll get some "side by sides" with the 40" Demon...

Chuck (in Aaaala Baaama)
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Old Jul 12, 2006, 12:24 PM
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Pics!

If a picture says a thousand words.... I guess I'll replace a few thousand words... I still gotta write a few of 'em though.

Lessee, I finished covering last night and thought I'd post what I had. Everything is mocked up in the pics. It was late and I did not want to rush the hinges, etc, so I'll knock out hinges, control rods/horns, and do some soldering the next night or two. To be quite frank, there's not much else to it...

Build was typical Ritewing, no surprises. If you'd like to see how it goes, check out any of my other build threads. I could put 40" Demon build pics in here and no one would know the difference... but what's the point . I did do a couple things a little different and thought I'd share the techniques that panned out.

The front spars for this wing are a little smaller than the others. I used a little "ball-shaped grinder bit" from my Dremel set chucked in my soldering iron to cut the recesses for the front spars. Worked great.

I also did the motor mount a little different. I made the motor mount slot before joining the wing halves; a first for me (don't forget to use a NEW utility knive blade for this... as it's gotta be SHARP to keep from balling up the foam). I placed the rear spar in one wing half and cut a slot 1/2 the width of the motor mount under it. Repeated the same for the other wing half. Joined the halves with hot-glue as usual, gooped up the slots and the motor mount and installed it pushed up under the spar... with the cutout for the motor right against the rear of the spar. Can't get much more solid than that... Straight as can be too.

What else? I recessed the servos slightly and covered with a small square of balsa. Sanded it to the airfoil contour. Covered, you'd never know it's there...

Everything else is straight up. Battery bay is "double wide" to accommodate 2x 2S 3700 batteries. A single 3S 3700 fits too, but it's got to be a little aft for it to fit. No go on 2x 3S . The smaller 3300's may be a smarter pack to use, given the power requirements, but I've got 37's, so 3700's it is....

I'll get all the goodies installed/mounted, etc, and take a few more pics. Like I always say.... THIS one is better than any other I've built. I watched the video again, filed away some little tricks, made some up "on the fly"... and always seem to make improvements with each spin. Yellow for the top wasn't my first choice, but I did not have the Dove Gray I like to use... and I wanted to make progress, so I used what I had. Contrast from top to bottom is pretty stark, so mission accomplished...

As you can see in the comparo pics, the 36" Demon has a slightly different sweep than the 40. I'm guessing this is critical. I hope Ck will elaborate... The airfoil looks a lot thinner too. My 40 is a bit of a "fatty" foil as I recall

I'll letcha know how it flies shortly.... I'm guessing it's gonna be sweet....

There ya go.... let the talking stop and the flying begin!

Chuck (in Aaaala Baaama)
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Old Jul 12, 2006, 02:45 PM
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I have a powerplant that can't wait to get itself into a 36" Demon.

Does anyone know the timeline that Mr. Klique will be selling these
setups?

B
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Old Jul 12, 2006, 03:00 PM
The Original Slacker
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Looks GREAT Chuck!

BTW the propper way to say 36" or 3700 batteries is:

"Thuddy sax anch" and "Thuddy seben batrees"

You ahve been slacking on your accents Chuck. Looks like east Tennessee is our target so maybe one day we can 'RiteWing' togather somewere, sometime.

How far are you from the Tri-cities area? (Bristol, Kingsport, Johnson City)

Good lookn' build chuck as always...look forward to maden videos.

-Dave
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Old Jul 12, 2006, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly_boy99
I have a powerplant that can't wait to get itself into a 36" Demon.

Does anyone know the timeline that Mr. Klique will be selling these
setups?

B
Ck will have to step up to answer that one... I've got copy 1 of 2 (he's built one other version with a slightly different sweep angle), so it's pretty fresh. I've not known Chris to turn stuff loose before he's confident it is the best it can be. I'm sure this will be no exception.

I consider myself privledged to be an "early adopter" of the 36" Demon and am looking forward to reporting my experiences of flight with all those interested!

Paul VI? You should have held out for the REAL 36" Demon... You're gonna LOVE this foil!

Chuck (in Aaaala Baaama)
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Old Jul 12, 2006, 05:36 PM
resU deretsigeR
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Dublin Ca
Joined Aug 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckand

Paul VI? You should have held out for the REAL 36" Demon... You're gonna LOVE this foil!

Chuck (in Aaaala Baaama)
Paul VIscovich...

Ya go ahead and rub it in...

The motor on the 30in is a screamer it would have done the 36 well on 4s...

Maybe i can get those Crazy AZ's to cut me a real 30 inch or a 32 inch with reflex and all...


Then we would have the full monty going....

yours looks real nice and i understand that the photos don't burn the cornia as much as when the wing is in full sunlight...
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Old Jul 12, 2006, 06:11 PM
Mum is the word!
Joined Jun 2003
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I will be waiting on your flight report chuck before it gets released.
So you are the final factor.
The one i have has the same sweep as the 40 and flies great.
It was a little sensative so we added a few degrees of sweep to tame it alittle.
My rates on mine were set at 35 % on low rates and was a hand full till i got the cg dialed,and rates dialed.
Yours has just a slight mod on sweep and you are the final test patient lol
Ck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckand
Ck will have to step up to answer that one... I've got copy 1 of 2 (he's built one other version with a slightly different sweep angle), so it's pretty fresh. I've not known Chris to turn stuff loose before he's confident it is the best it can be. I'm sure this will be no exception.

I consider myself privledged to be an "early adopter" of the 36" Demon and am looking forward to reporting my experiences of flight with all those interested!

Paul VI? You should have held out for the REAL 36" Demon... You're gonna LOVE this foil!

Chuck (in Aaaala Baaama)
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Old Jul 13, 2006, 06:44 AM
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Looking forward to seeing and filming this one in action...
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Old Jul 13, 2006, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klique
Yours has just a slight mod on sweep and you are the final test patient lol
Ck.
Alright then.... Guess that means I need a good CG starting point. If you haven't flown this sweep, I guess it will be an educated guess, but if you got one, I need it...

Oh, and at 35%, what were your throws, roughly? I've got some "middle of the road" control horns on this one... and the links are in the top hole. Maybe 1/4" up and down at 30%.

I finished the Elevons last night and got 'em taped on, linkages made/installed, etc. As my build post mentioned, it just gets better and better. The little things you learn along the way make each model sweeter.

I "slit" the Money-Kote where the servo arms protrude instead of cutting an "ovel" like I have in the past. Awesome detail.... Looks so much more finished (my wife even commented about how clean the top of the wing looks!). I absolutely love the way the servos/elevon linkages worked out. With HS225MG's about 3/32" below the surface of the foam (covered with a balsa plate), I can connect to either of the top 2 holes on the servo arm. I'll get more pics shortly... when I've got the rest of the power system installed.

I totally nailed the "flat" interface between wings and elevon. Johnnie, you gotta let me help you nail this on your "fitty" when you're there. I cannot express how important this is... If you don't get the elevons hinged so the top surface of the elevon matches the top surface of the wing... it'll never fly to it's potential. I have SO been there...

You're gonna drool over this one Rocket Boy! Another work of art from Ritewing!

More tomorrow!!

Chuck (in Aaaala Baaama)
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Old Jul 13, 2006, 05:39 PM
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cg

I would say 6/3/4 to 7 inches.
ck
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Old Jul 14, 2006, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klique
I would say 6/3/4 to 7 inches.
ck
is right! 7"? Holy cats! Should be no problem though...

Chuck (in Aaaala Baaama)
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Old Jul 17, 2006, 08:21 AM
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Wing is finished...

Well, I got some time in over the weekend to wrap up this build. It's flight ready... and so am I! I'll get some pics to post tonight.

Finished all the electronics routing, etc, and did some static tests. I'm using PolyRC 3700's from rclipos.com (I've had GREAT service from Pat!!). With an APC 5.5 x 4.5, I am getting 30A on 3S and 40A on 4S. I'd rather use a 5x5 but haven't got an APC 5x5, nor do I have an adapter for the Multiplex 5x5 to 3.0mm.... so this is what I've got to use for the moment. We'll see how torquey the 5.5 x 4.5 is and go from there...

Weather was miserable over the weekend (98F, and terrible humidity!), so no flying yet. My "right outside the back door" flying site is a little torn up right now too (new subdivision in the middle of getting underground utilities), but I should be able to get some time in this week... one way or another.

Until next time....

Chuck (in Aaaala Baaama)
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Old Aug 22, 2006, 08:30 AM
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Yowza! The 36" Ritewing is HOT!!

Well, OK... I hope that by the title, you figured out I flew my 36" Demon... finally!

Oh the suspense.... or more like... Oh the misery!! This has not been a fun summer and I have done as little as necessary outside (mow grass, etc). I guess I could wear a sweat-band to keep my vision while I puddle up in the heat, but that would just be so 80's . By the looks of my work bench as pictured, you can see I have been doing SQUAT. The plane count on the wall suggests the same (had I been flying, there would be fewer of them . I did manage to update my charging setup and added power supplies I got at a screamin' good deal from allelectronics.com...

Enough of that, right? After re-planting a tree yesterday evening, I set up the Demon with a single 3S 3700 pack, added some weight to get the CG to 7", grabbed my stuff and headed for open ground.

Setup was...
HET 4W
APC 5x5
PolyRC 3S3700 (Pat at RCLipos.com is THE MAN!!)
CC60 (overkill, but it was handy...)
and almost 2 oz of noseweight...

That first toss is always suspenseful for me. I've never been comfortable asking someone to throw for me, as I don't want my flying buds to feel responsible for a splat. This was no exception. Just me and my Demon. I could subjectively feel that the usual half throttle did not make it feel as light in my hand as I am used to (a lot less prop...), so I bumped it up to 3/4 and gave it a toss... gained my orientation on the controls and could see it pushing uncontrollably... almost to a stall. Lesson I've learned? If motor thrust angle is in question, chop the throttle, straighten it out, push the nose down, and the world is suddenly a much nicer place! No steep turns.... just float it down and regroup. The Demon really carried the energy and floated down nicely. I even did a couple of shallow turns to reduce my walk . I recovered it, took out some of the "nose up" from the motor mount, spooled it up to nearly full throttle and let 'er rip! Sweeeeet! I picked up some altitude, started a bit of a pattern, then reduced the throttle to 3/4 to see where I was at.

Yup...needed some "up" trim, so I went a little far the other way... but it's a good starting place. Chopped the throttle and it ballooned, so... indications are... need a little less nose down in the motor mount. I did a few lower speed passes and picked a landing site. A little fast, but a smooth landing. Another tweak of the mount, a full throttle launch, and off she goes like an arrow! Typical Ritewing handling..... Point it up, and up it goes. Bank left? Smooth.... on rails. Wick it up and it just keeps doing what it was doing.... only faster!

I did notice the 5x5 seems to torque this wing a bit more than the 40's. I'm afraid that a 5.5x4.5 wouldn't provide enough pitch though. I may try Chris' suggestion of the 5x5 carbon "spoony" and see if I can keep the speed up without the torque reaction. This is REALLY quibbling though, as earlier this year I would not have recognized I was even seeing a torque-related issue (it's trivial... almost not there). The handling/tracking/grace of Ritewing models has REALLY spoiled me.... and in doing so, provided me with skill, insight, and experience to be a much better hand on the sticks. My expectations from a wing are EXTREMELY skewed now... I expect a LOT and the 36" Demon is capable of delivering it!!

Throughout this series of flights, throws were set up super conservative. Elevons as well as Aileron mix were set to 30% all the way around. I was warned ahead of time this size Demon has the potential to be twitchy. At 30% throws, it was not twitchy at all.... more like a scapel slicing precisely through the air in whatever attitude I pointed it! I will crank up the aileron mix and report back.... hopefully with some video! I see the roll rate going through the roof while keeping the rest of the surgical precision rite where it's at!

I'll also be tweaking the CG to see how much nose weight I can shed. Ck recommended 6-3/4" to 7" from the nose. At 7", it is still extremely flat... so I'll probably start bumping it back.... probably before I start goofing with the control throws. All I need is a spastic wing with an aft-leaning CG... I just don't need that kind of excitement in my life!

The 36" Demon gets two thumbs up from Chuck, but this is a reasearch project at this point. I see it getting better and better from here on! That sort of brings up another point; If you have the opportunity to reach a little beyond the "known" in your world, I highly recommend it. Taking on the role of "test subject" has dramatically added to the interest and satisfaction of this hobby for me. I get a rush from the "Well, lets see what's gonna happen now!" situations... where your skill, experience, and.... ahem.... "plums" have a direct impact on the success of a project.

Reach a little... you'll be glad you did!

Chuck (in Aaaala Baaama)
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