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Old Mar 10, 2009, 08:56 PM
3D wannabe
smokejohnson's Avatar
USA, OK, Tulsa
Joined Nov 2006
500 Posts
Thanks twister, after I get comfy with it I will get the same guy to make another video and include some low and slow action. It was a lot of fun to fly, I really liked the way it tracked.
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Old Mar 10, 2009, 09:20 PM
Not your average DiggsyBear
Diggs's Avatar
Raleigh, NC
Joined Dec 2006
8,859 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldrtaylor
I am very new to rc. Have had a couple of easystars that have seen better days. I am not an experienced pilot. Mostly crash and rebuild even with the easystar which is supposed to be the best beginner plane. I have had poor results.
I built this little swift II about a week ago but its been windy ever since.
Took it out today and could not believe how easy it was to fly!!
It may not be a starter plane but when it is set up right it flys so easy and stable. It was truly a thrill. I'm sold.

What gear did you use on it?

Diggs
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Old Mar 10, 2009, 10:14 PM
Austin, TX, 78746
Joined Nov 2008
292 Posts
Here is what i used because it it what i had lying around:

TR 28-30B 14A 1050Kv Brushless Outrunner


Model: TR2830-1050
Max Eff: 12A
Max Load: 14A
Kv: 1050
Weight: 57.9gr
Pull: 400~900gr
Prop: 10x5 or 10x6
Voltage: 6~10v
No Load Curr: .9A
Size : 30mm
from hobbycity
2cell lipo ( I think 1500 mh)
8x6 prop
adjusted the elevons to "up position just slightly
flew fantastic
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Old Mar 11, 2009, 05:44 AM
3D wannabe
smokejohnson's Avatar
USA, OK, Tulsa
Joined Nov 2006
500 Posts
Thanks Diggs (I have no idea how I did not see your post yesterday ). I was having so much fun cruising around up high checking it out that I didn't even think to slow it down and bring it in close to see what she would do. It wasn't until I brought her in to land that I realized how much control I still had at slow speed . I can't wait to get out and fly it again.


Congrats on the maiden Donald and welcome to the club .

FWIW a few post back there was a discussion on expo and travel. I set mine up with the max throw possible on high rates, 50% dual rates, with -45% expo on both. Most of the flight was flown on low rates but I did switch to high rates in there somewhere and it was just a little more sensitive on the sticks with a faster roll rate.
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Old Mar 15, 2009, 12:59 PM
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Truglodite's Avatar
Carmichael, CA
Joined Feb 2007
3,513 Posts
Last weekend my buddy came in town to pick up his swift. When we went out to fly it it was a bit windy, I'd say 10-15mph, but the first time his swift saw any real wind. I noticed a very slight amount of flutter after diving and pulling out in to the wind. It wasn't scary flutter at all as she stayed fully controllable, but during those upwind dives you could definitely hear an oscillation in the airframe once in a while.

So I think I found a good balance of stiffness and weight with his swift. It has enough carbon to keep it in shape during WOT dives, but it's not too much because it does barely start to act up when turbulence hits it at those speeds. Just like before, there was no noticeable wing flex during extreme pullouts in either direction. We also did more than a few successful hand catches, and one was picture perfect with 2 hands right on the LE at chest height. That should describe how well it slowed down.

Anyhow, I'm now convinced that some measure of cf is necessary when you get a swift going fast (~55mph). FWIW, with his heavier new prolite v2's, the AUW was slightly over 11oz.

To wrap it up, my buddy's swift is his new favorite plane! It's easy to understand why: ballistic handlaunches to 50mph vertical, handcatches, axial rolls. I have to admit, I'm very impressed with how his power combo launches the darn thing like a rocket, and it's unconscionable that such a plane can be floated in for a hand catch! I have seen a lot of fast and vertical planes in 20yrs of modeling, but I have never seen anything quite like it to be honest. The swift's envelope is GINORMOUS!

Cheers,
Kev

[edit: Since it's on topic, my buddies rates were set to full travel, or about 45degrees up and down, with -30% expo. We noticed little or no gain in responsiveness beyond about 2/3 stick at any speed, so I think 23degrees is the all that's needed. More than that and the elevons just start to act like airbrakes.]
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Old Mar 15, 2009, 06:05 PM
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antennahead's Avatar
USA, IL, Lake Forest
Joined May 2007
1,281 Posts
I just came in from flying my swift storm. I flew through 4 full packs and have finnaly got the setup correct. for those not following this thread, I had a really tough time getting it to fly right, mostly caused by my complete lack of experience then compounded by having it too heavy with the first components installed, then after putting in all new components to lighten it up, I struggled with getting the correct cg,( I was using the Great planes cg machine with the pads removed and trying to set cg using just the little balls) and then with my tx progaming, like when you put it into elevon mode the rudder to elevator, and elevator to rudder mixing defaults to 75% and I kept trying to play with the percentages, but just kept having problems.
So the sollution to all of my problems were to build my own cg tool using 1/4 dowel rod, this was probably the most significant as I could finaly get an accurate and repeatable cg readings, I then set my elevon mixing to 100% on both channels, set my dual rates to 50% low and 90% high. and set my expo to 10%

today I was pretty nervous as I had so many bad flights with this swift, I would say at least 20 tries with the last one ending with my swift in 3 large pieces (pictures posted a few pages back) I put it on low rates and tossed into the air, it tracked straight and true and responded to my slightest stick movements, after about a minute or so my nerves started, and my right thumb started shaking pretty bad so after a short 5 minutes, I landed so that my thumb would stop shaking. after that I flew 3 more full packs. I left it in low rates so I can get used to the handling before I start raising the low rates or switch to high rates. in low rates, it would do some lazy barrel rolls and large loops, I was getting used to it, but didn't want to push my luck. I was just having too much fun just being able to fly it for once! the winds were about 10 mph with gusts up to 20 mph and my swift wasn't even affected by it. now I know why you guys love flying this thing. and I have to thank all of the people on this thread that helped me. (and also had to listen to my whining ) as a bonus I learned alot about how an airplane should be setup and the how's and why's of my tx programing.
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Old Mar 15, 2009, 07:43 PM
allthingsthatfly.com
GFBurke's Avatar
USA, ID, Meridian
Joined Jan 2007
6,145 Posts
Did the maiden. WOW. This thing floats ...... -- THEN HAWLZ!
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Old Mar 15, 2009, 07:50 PM
I'll Fly Anything...
Michigan
Joined Apr 2006
245 Posts
Indestructible

Guys, I've gotta tell you, MS Composit designs notwithstanding, EPP foam is tremendous material to build with!

I've had several Swifts - I keep selling them and building more. I can tell you that the stiffer you make them the more you pay for it. When you hit something, the stiffer it is, the more pieces you have to put back together. The ultimate compromise is to use cotton thread soaked with CA. They are stiff enough, light and if you do shatter them (usually three pieces, maximum) they go right back together with no real ill effects.

I've hit trees, mailboxes and the ground at high speed and have yet to end up with a plane I can't fix.

As a result, I try more things. I relax. I know that they go right back together. Now I have an airplane that I'm comfortable stretching the envelope with. And what you learn with these translates to other, bigger, and more expensive aircraft. I can't say the same thing for F3P - I'm not sure what that skillset translates into yet, but EPP & MS Composit is really, really awesome!
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Old Mar 15, 2009, 09:50 PM
allthingsthatfly.com
GFBurke's Avatar
USA, ID, Meridian
Joined Jan 2007
6,145 Posts
Seriously, I have not been this turned on by EPP in a long time.
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Old Mar 15, 2009, 10:02 PM
More Trim
More Trim's Avatar
Raleigh NC
Joined Jan 2007
505 Posts
I agree. EPP is the way to go. I love building with it. Diggs and I just finished two Goolies and cant wait to get them in the air. EPP will take a lot. And the thing is on the field if you break it just bring out the hot glue gun and bam you are in the air again.
EPP rocks
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Old Mar 15, 2009, 11:00 PM
Not your average DiggsyBear
Diggs's Avatar
Raleigh, NC
Joined Dec 2006
8,859 Posts
The Swift II is a must have IMO. Just like the Superfly and the SloFly. EPP is great stuff until you get to that point you want something that flies crisper and lighter. I am just not skilled enough at this point to really tell that big of a difference AND, I can't afford the consequences of crunchy planes. The Swift II will take some abuse, and even if you do break it, a touch of glue and she is airworthy again in no time!

Diggs
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Old Mar 16, 2009, 02:12 PM
I'll Fly Anything...
Michigan
Joined Apr 2006
245 Posts
EPP Qualities

The first Swift II that I ever got I received from Henri Jezek of MS Composit (who hired Brian Butts - who runs the show now). Henri is a Czech National and thought I was kind of odd (Okay, he looked at me really funny) when I reported the following:

EPP as marketed by MS Composit has the following qualities:

Impervious to:

Methyl Ehtyl Ketone
Denatured Alcohol
Isopropyl Alcohol
Paint Thinner
Gasoline
Any form of CA Glue
Kicker

What happens is that these products soak through to the other side of the foam. Not at all like a sponge, the liquids just work their way through the foam to the other side (using gravity).

Susceptible to:

Heat. It flat out does not do well with any significant heat source.

So as to building, I always use CA. You can put the parts together with (thick CA) glue on one side and kicker on the other and you are done! Repairs are done by putting the separated pieces together and putting thin CA on the 'wound,' counting to 3 (1000-1, 1000-2, 1000-3...) and hitting both sides of the foam with kicker. There, done. Have your hands well away from the area, because the glue will soak through the foam and get you.

Keeping the receivers, servos, speed controls in place and organizing wires, I use Low-Temp glue guns.

The only tape I have found that sticks to this EPP stuff is Scotch Extreme and some other Scotch brand packing tape that is clear/milky white for packaging with a fiber built in. (Sorry, no number).

Hope this helps.
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Old Mar 16, 2009, 02:50 PM
Austin, TX, 78746
Joined Nov 2008
292 Posts
What do you guys think about moving the servos to the top

My swift is holding up very well but the control rods and clevis' are getting damaged on the underside. Putting everything on top would help this but would it effect flight characteristics?
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Old Mar 16, 2009, 03:42 PM
Registered User
Western NY
Joined May 2008
96 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs
The Swift II is a must have IMO. ...

I can't afford the consequences of crunchy planes. The Swift II will take some abuse, and even if you do break it, a touch of glue and she is airworthy again in no time!

Diggs
Amen! We just had a PERFECT Sunday morning for flying in Western NY. No wind, sunny, warm, and 5 to 7 of us flying low and slow in formation... up and over swales, through soccer goals (no nets), etc... It got to the point where I was flying the Swift inverted with the tips almost dragging in the grass. The EPP is very forgiving and it frees you from worrrying about the little bounces/dings -- just pick it and throw it back in the air!

The fun factor on this wing is a 10+ It can change personality so quickly --- floaty slow flyer skimming the ground, pseudo-glider (fly it like a kite >25 minutes w/Blue Wonder & 800 mah 3S1P), or full out speed. If I could bring only one plane to the field, this would be the one.

Dave
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Old Mar 16, 2009, 04:51 PM
I'll Fly Anything...
Michigan
Joined Apr 2006
245 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldrtaylor
My swift is holding up very well but the control rods and clevis' are getting damaged on the underside. Putting everything on top would help this but would it effect flight characteristics?
My main concern when I first built a Swift II was to protect the servos and servo arms. I have always put in Dubro skids, or wingtip protectors, right next to the control arms such that when landing on a flat suface the wingtip protector would take the brunt of the hit (umm, or scrape).

I've seen some guys put the controls up top, but that was too much work for me! Besides, there are two holes in the underside of the wing already!

On the other hand, can you can bring her in real slow, reach up and grab it? I've got that maneuver down now! I make sure to tell people that I'm going to attempt a catch first, however...
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