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Old Jun 28, 2006, 09:41 PM
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Southern Oregon
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OV-10 Bronco, foam and vaccumformed parts

Hello!

This is my first post here at rcgroups.... I've been one of those "too busy to play" guys, drooling over all your projects who finally got inspired to build one of my favorite planes...

This post, is my personal thank you to all of you who submitted your photos, building experiences and electrical knowledge that left me dreaming about creating this (first of hopefully many) fun toy(s).

My background:
In the late 80's and early 90's I owned and 0perated Jarel Aircraft Design & Engineering (JADE)... Among many (mostly canard) protypes, I prodcued the Telos, Shogun and Impluse sailplanes... radical designs, innovative construction (I love shapes, but am lazy when it comes to building, so I put my efforts into adapting and developing vacuumforming techniques to produce, inexpensive, lightweight shapes that needed very little work. Made it to most of the RC magazines of the period including cover photos, stories and a feature revies in MAN.

(Through firends), I've learned that some people over in the soaring seciton thought I may have "gone under" or went out of business... What happened was: I started creating special effects props, models, robotics, creatures, etc for the motion picture industry... For the last 16 years, I have also developed and produced many of the prototypes for most of the Batman, Justice League, Master's of the Universe, Max Steel and Superman toys for several of the larger Toy manufacturers (Including the newly released R/C flying Superman (A lot more lucrative and totally fun!)

So... What does a guy do for fun, when his work is also fun (and exhausting)?

You build some more and go back to what you love!

I'm expecting the begining of a new project any day, so this one had to be quick: I blew up three view drawings this past Friday night. Drew plans and cut cores as well as cut out flat parts on Saturday, built and sanded all the parts on Sunday, Sculpted all the vacuumform bucks on Monday, assembled everything and put in the radio on Tuesday and flew it this afternoon! (Whew!)

The plan:

CHEAP and QUICK (building and flying)! and some fun (realistic) good looks....

I had a couple of old IPS gear drives laying around from another client's flying project and went from there.... (I have a couple of inexpensive GWS brushless on order to put into the next version which will have retracts and flaps)

(I know many of you have all sorts of ideas about what YOU would put into this thing and I'm sure your ideas are great.... But.... I have many more planes coming, most of them twins and I want to be able to afford continuing to do this, so, I'll stick with cheap and keep the building light and easy...) (My background is with sailplanes wehre the airfoils really make or break a design.... instead of powering my way through the air, I like to "think" my way through... (And yes, I have a larger 3-D blue foam brushless that allows me to do things "real" airplanes won't and I love it.... but I love "flying" and enjoy the imagination that comes along with flying a scale plane.


OK... what happened:
I created patterns for most of the parts, but will revise them when I build prototype #2 with retracts and flaps.... This one flew right off the drawing board with no adjustments of any type.... Really impressive perfomance considering the tiny motors... take off was quick (30ft to air), continuous rolls, fair inverted, some vertical after a run into it.... Had almost 8 minutes of flight time before brining it in to go back home...

I'll give you what data I do have and let you know that at some point in the "distant future"... I "may" offer vacuum formed parts, maybe even a short kit: (cores, full size plans, photo illustrated instructions and wing cores.) but for now, I am just recovering from a major stressed filled special effects shoot that took almost 3 months (7 days a week), to build and only 3 seconds to destroy (while being filmed) with only one take to do it in.... Whew!

If you figure out my website, please do enjoy the pictures.... (I haven't updated in over four years as I have been way too busy), but do NOT contact me there.... it is a working website for my business and I have so little time as it is. (thank you for respecting this request)

If you try to contact me here, don't feel put off if it takes a while for me to respond... could be days... could be more (I'm just gearing up to start a new project for Warner Brothers that could have me working straight through the rest of the summer...)

Id' be curious to hear what you think, and also what other twins or "shapely" planes you'ld like to see made into a kit with the shapes taken care of for you through vacuumforming.... For now, I have dreams of creating the following: P-38, FW190-A, Me 262, PBY-5 (floatable!), one of the earlier radial egine twin tail beechraft and the mosquito... These could be a long ways off, or I may just start turning these out as fast as I did this one.

The photos don't show the vacuum formed machine gun sponsons, but I just couldn't resist sharing what I have....

Hope you enjoy and again,

Thank you all so much for your inspiration!

(By the way... this was my first twin, and my first foamie... great material!)

Regards,
Richard
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Old Jun 28, 2006, 11:04 PM
It's a really big number.
Brisbane Intl, Australia
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Nice looking bronco. I wish I had vac form capabilities...

-Tim
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Old Jun 29, 2006, 12:38 AM
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Antioch,CA,USA
Joined Dec 1999
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Richard, did you make a slope glider that used balsa sheeted foam core wings, and aluminum boom, and a vac formed pod for the fuse?
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Old Jun 29, 2006, 12:55 AM
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jarel design's Avatar
Southern Oregon
Joined Apr 2004
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Impulse slope glider

Hi Greg,

*smile*

Yup, that was me. The Impulse. V-tail... a loooong time ago. Also a vaccumformed stealth type flying wing-hybred, showgun... Hmmm.... always thought that would make a radical electric mid-motor... May look inot that one. Not sure if I still have the metal molds for that one (I do have th original compsite molds though.

Haven't been flying or building (at least for myself), in a long time. Nice to get back into this hobby. So much has changed.... Besides the first Plett's, there were no brushless back when I was producing kits and the most powerful motors you could get were the Atro FAI's on SCR Nicads! (I'm totally dating myself)... The Bronco really captures where I'm headed these days... small, fun, easy to build... cheap motors, light batteries, easy to fly in a schoolyard.

I'm not really looking into getting back into producing kits... Though if there's enough of an interest, who knows. Right now, I've been pretty busy with work and my kinetic sculptures. I like the planes I want to build and some of the shapes just lend themselves to vacuum forming.... figuring I'm gonna crash sooner or later, it's just seems worth it to invest the time to produce molds for replacement parts.
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Old Jun 29, 2006, 01:01 AM
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jarel design's Avatar
Southern Oregon
Joined Apr 2004
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oops!

Forgot to include details:

OV-10 Bronco

Construction: Foam sheet and vacuumformed plastic

Wingspan: 38.5"
Wing area:137.5 sq in / 1.649 sq ft
All Up Weight:18.6oz
Wing Loading:11.3 oz/sq ft
Power: IPS GWS (Tiger Moth replacements)
Props: GWSEP 9X7
Battery: 2S Li-Po 730ma
Rx: 4ch Pico (HS-55 servos)
Elvator, Aileron, Steerable nose wheel, ESC
ESC: GWS WWESC 300A
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Old Jun 29, 2006, 07:02 AM
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Antioch,CA,USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarel design
Hi Greg,

*smile*

Yup, that was me. The Impulse. V-tail... a loooong time ago. ....

Haven't been flying or building (at least for myself), in a long time. Nice to get back into this hobby. So much has changed.... Besides the first Plett's, there were no brushless back when I was producing kits and the most powerful motors you could get were the Atro FAI's on SCR Nicads! (I'm totally dating myself)... .........
I thought that your name sounded familiar. Great to hear that you're getting back into it. The OV-10 looks great!

The Impulse was my first really fast Hotliner (~1994). It had an AF 05 FAI direct drive on 8-1000SCRs with a home made high rate ESC. Really hauled the coals so to speak. Made my knees shake the first few times I flew it.

I brought it with me to the KRC '94 meet. In trying to get more perfromance out of it there I tried to run too big a prop. This was also my first electric that wrote smoke signals! I ended up rebuilding that motor at that meet!

I still have the parts to rebuild everything after finding a telephone pole with it. It's one of those "One of these Days" projects!

Does anything look familiar in this pic?

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Old Jun 29, 2006, 08:00 AM
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United States, NY, Fairport
Joined Jun 2000
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Oh man another wizard to watch. Richard it looks great and I can't believe you just kind of "whipped" it out Looking forward to seeing more.
Dave
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Old Jun 29, 2006, 10:07 AM
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jarel design's Avatar
Southern Oregon
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Wizard?

*smile*

Dave,

Being new to posting and doing anything here but drooling over pictures and reading technical stuff, I checked your profile and found your Sabb (major technical achievement for me... I work with my hands and appreciate the powers of computers, but I tend to classify them with all unimaginable stuff (for me) including "electrickery")

Talk about wizard!?! Beautiful pusher! Really impressed and appreciative of the work put into shaping the foam (including hollowing out the fuselage and even a scratch built spinner????? Sir, My hat is off to you!

I laughed when I say the Impulse in the background of you photo! LOL! I should pull mine out and put a motor in it.... My electric had an Astroflight FAI-15 on ten cells with a 9X7 folding prop and an MH42 carbon fiber vaccumbagged wing... what a screamer! Well over 100mph....

The Impulse was insired by watching some germans fly an F3E FAI-60 on 28 cells... They had an altimeter watch and were checking out vertical performance... I had never seen anything fly like that before and just had to have one... That's when they told me the prices of each of the many "components (motor, battery, airframe....) Hence the birth of the impulse... from ten feet away, you couldn't tell it wasn't a fiberglass ship and with the FAI-15, it would really move.... I should look into some of the current brushless motors and see what would work... I have two impulses that are near completion that have been in boxes for over 10 years... any ideas on a fairly innexpensive motor set up? I'm thinking maximum thrust/speed for 10 to 20 seconds, direct drive, 3S cells? My mian parameters are to keep costs down so I can create more planes without having to cannibalize motors etc...

Just finished reading a review on the new GWS 2205/15T outrunner motors... I have two ordered to put into the OV-10... test fly it and then paint it... if the motors live up to what the numbers are saying for the price, I see a rash of more building "frenzy" creating more twins!

Thanks for the hello!

PS: Just so that you and others know, for now, it's easy for me to check in here (this is so addictive!), but once my new project starts, my entries here will more than likely be very sporadic at best and I may not get in at all for a while! (I'm also trying to get in some regular "life" fishing and hiking... (Learning the winters up here are the inspiration to get out and play!)
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Old Jun 29, 2006, 02:10 PM
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Joined Sep 2004
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Nice OV10. Here's a couple of pic of my OV10.
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Old Jun 29, 2006, 02:48 PM
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Southern Oregon
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NICE!!!!!

Scratchbuilt! And more than that... I see another in the background in one photo? You have a squadron??????

Curious as to your specs... size, wingspan, weight, motors, props, batteries etc ... how does yours fly?

Looks like yours is more scale than mine in wing planform.... I used a Selig S4233 airfoil (sailplane, semi symetrical with just a hint of undercamber near the TE: great penetration, high lift, limited inverted, but can hold it. I also added almost 4" span to help the wing loading light... I like planes that can go fast, but also love the slow fly-bys just to see the "scale details in the air".

Ready to go out and fly again, this time with slightly smaller props and armement sponsons attached. more photos with the sponson coming later.
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Old Jun 29, 2006, 06:09 PM
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Mike (Helcat) and I both built Broncos from the same plans. They look really cool flying together. Of course he one-upped me by putting a really bright LED light in the nose (heck I figure I'll just follow his headlight through bad weather ). His is powered with a couple of BP/TP ,whever they're called this week, outrunners. Mine has a pair of old speed 400's. I just bought a couple of long can speed 400's from a fellow Ezoner to replace the existing motors.
The wings are simple flat bottom. We then add a spar and curve the depron to form the upper wing shape. Very scientific eh!!!
Watch your sponsons. Ours were catching in the grass on landings and getting torn off. Mike came up with the idea to hinge them and put them on the retract channel on the radio so they can be raised for landing. I took the weapons pods off mine becasue they were still catching in the grass even when retracted.
Thanks for comments on the Saab. It was a fun build and my first from just 3 views.
Dave
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Old Jun 29, 2006, 06:33 PM
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United States, IL, Elgin
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Save those sponsons

Dave,
Something that can work, but may require a little modification, is adding a CL tank. I did this on my F-4 Phantom. It makes a very nice landing skid. It was made by making a medium balsa profile piece with ble foam on both sides, sanded to shape. The balsa was glued into a slot on the belly. Not only does it work as a great landing skid, it doubles as a throwing grip.

You mark the target, I'll take it out.

Dave
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Old Jun 29, 2006, 06:56 PM
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http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless-axi2820.htm

2820-08, I'll bet that it would be good for 65A for up to 20 sec. I'd try it.


BTW, that is one SWEEEEET looking Phantom!
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Old Jun 29, 2006, 07:17 PM
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Dave,
You're cleared HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dave
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Old Jun 29, 2006, 09:50 PM
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Southern Oregon
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Greg,
Thanks for the recomendation for the Axi motor... I checked it out and then checked the video of it in an ion... That's EXACTLY what I'm looking for! Can't wait!

As for landing on grass? sorry guys, I'm a landing gear nut... something about taxing on the ground, rolling away and then landing on wheels... Just gotta have them... I enjoy doing touch and goes with different types of approcahes as I do speed runs or aerobatics.... soemthing excites me about reving motors on a tarmac, throttling up and then waiting for the right moment to lift the nose (or tail) off the ground and watch a shallow (scale like) lift off... (laughing here... yeah, I LOVE take offs and landings on wheels... I also like to see clean fuselages in the air!

That's part of trying to keep things light and suing airfoils with washout that will allow a speeding bullet to slow down and land slowly... I'm working on converting a GXS mini retract to a steerable nose retract unless anyone knows of one that already exists? (prefer mechanical rather than air unless they're cheap and light?)

Here's some photos of the sponson mounted.... yes, there is a hidden airfoil in there figuring a little more lift wouldn't hurt.... No noticable difference in today's flights... although after researching more on the GWS brushelss, I can't wait to get them in and pick up a little more speed... then: the re-build with retracts and flaps! (I'll create patterns for all the parts in case there's an interest in kits at some point....)

I'm looking forward to taking off, brining up the flaps and gear and then buzzing low and fast into vertical!

The sponsons are marked for machine gun and 20mmcannon details... Also creating a turbine exhaust vacuum formed piece as well as cockpit with ejection seats and pilots... Hmmm.... maybe I should just move on to the next plane... Brought out some old drawings and engineering schematics I came up with for a gear/drive shaft driven prop set up for an Osprey with tilt rotors.... One motor, one drive shaft= exact twin prop rpm... not going for speed, but the excitement of VTOL transition to normal winged flight.... Back when I drew these up, brushless were pretty much non existant and SCR packs were as light and as powerfull as they came.... Now with brushless power and lipos, this may be a possibility...

I may be in trouble! LOL!
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