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Old Jun 28, 2006, 10:19 AM
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Fishnut's Avatar
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F-22A goes 108:0 against F15, F16, F18

The US military held an exercise called Northern Edge 2006 up in Alaska earlier this month and the results were pretty impressive. Aviation Week is reporting the F-22A Raptor went 108:0 against F-15s, F-16s and F/A-18s in various scenarios.

http://www.f-22raptor.com/index.php?nid=210

Now I don’t know the configurations of the other aircraft—especially if they have been upgraded with the revolutionary AESA “radar”. I put the word radar in quotes, because it does sooooooo much more than traditional radars. If they used the Air Superiority F-15Cs that are stationed in Alaska, then those prolly were upgraded--though with a less-capable model. Upgraded or not, 108:0 is simply amazing going up against front-line aircraft currently in our inventory.

This jives with the scuttlebutt of a previous exercise where the official result was 30:1, but unofficially the tally was more like 100:1.

Anyways, not writing this as a “Ra Ra, America is great” cheerleading thing. I just dig the technology. Been following it for thirty years now. Pretty cool that, in a few years, these things could enter a battlefield undetected, take out everything in the sky, hit high value targets on the ground, all while vacuuming the airwaves, reading hard drives & Blackberries, invading networks, planting worms—even frying electronics with concentrated microwave energy. Most of the stuff listed has already been demonstrated.
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Old Jun 28, 2006, 10:35 AM
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Yes, the technology is really cool, but it's not worth the money.
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Old Jun 28, 2006, 10:45 AM
Deletedfor proving Nauga wrong
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What military technology is really worth the money?

All military expenditures appear to be a waste right up until you have some other country's forces marching in your back yard... Then you find yourself wishing your leaders had spent more on all that overpriced stuff you were so opposed to before.

But then... I wouldn't expect someone from the Peoples Republic of Berkley to understand the reality that the only reason they can sit safely in thier back yard wearing a tie dyed shirt, ragged jeans and love beads only due to the fact that our military's mere existance tends to keep those who are jealous of our country's success from marching in and turning this land into a battlefield...
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Old Jun 28, 2006, 10:54 AM
Build/Fly/Crash/Repeat
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Nice personal attack.
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Old Jun 28, 2006, 10:55 AM
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Very well said fhhuber506771!

I hate paying car insurance. Seems like a total waste of money every six months, until I got hit, then my car was fixed for a mere $250, and they also gave me tons of money for hail damage for the same price on another occasion. It sucks paying it, but when you need it, it's there, just like our wonderful military and all their expensive toys.

I much prefer giving up my tax dollars to the USA to protect our freedoms then to give them up to another country that would take us over when they wanted to.
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Old Jun 28, 2006, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJ
Yes, the technology is really cool, but it's not worth the money.
Airspace dominance is worth every penny.
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Old Jun 28, 2006, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CoastalFlyer
Nice personal attack.
Post removed.

I sit corrected.
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Old Jun 28, 2006, 11:24 AM
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It’s nice to see all that technology works. It was quite a gamble. ...But so were the F-15, M1A1 and the Apache.

Yet all that technology doesn't mean a few loose screws won't muck things up. A few weeks ago a pilot could not get his cockpit to seal, then it wouldn't open. They had to cut him out with a chainsaw with some sort of glass cutting device. Left the cockpit covered in glass chips and cutting oil. Bet that aircraft is going to have some gremlins.


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Old Jun 28, 2006, 11:29 AM
Go get them Meg!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murocflyer
Yup, right to the throat. Quick and painless. End of story. Hard to argue with that.
Other than it's moronic, immature, and oh yeah, against Ezone rules.

I think the Raptor is worth every penny myself, but that would not excuse me for calling you a dumb hick from east bumpkin who is not sophisticated enough to know what money is if you dissagreed with me. For all Fhuber knows, the Guy from Berkely may have just moved there from Orange county, California.
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Old Jun 28, 2006, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by TheJ
but it's not worth the money.
Why?
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Old Jun 28, 2006, 11:51 AM
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The Raptor isn't invulnerable!
The ROE for the games should be known... how many events were BVR, etc..
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Old Jun 28, 2006, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by lrsudog
Other than it's moronic, immature, and oh yeah, against Ezone rules.

I think the Raptor is worth every penny myself, but that would not excuse me for calling you a dumb hick from east bumpkin who is not sophisticated enough to know what money is if you dissagreed with me. For all Fhuber knows, the Guy from Berkely may have just moved there from Orange county, California.

Post removed.

I sit corrected.
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Old Jun 28, 2006, 12:15 PM
Go get them Meg!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murocflyer
I really doubt that is was a personal attack, nor did he mean any harm. It's all in fun and shame on anyone who would think otherwise.
No, I must disagree. This is not the first example of chauvenism from him, by any means. It is my experience that unless called on this type of 14 year old behaviour, posters will become even more uncivil and personal. That is why there is a rule in place against such idiocy.
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Old Jun 28, 2006, 12:23 PM
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I'll have to take your word on his previous post history.
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Old Jun 28, 2006, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky Paul
The Raptor isn't invulnerable!
The ROE for the games should be known... how many events were BVR, etc..
If a Raptor driver lets a big-ol radar reflecting F18 get that close, then he isn't doing his job.

I would expect most of the kills to be BVR shots as that's one of the (many) areas the AESA multipurpose sensor shines. Nothing comes close to it in range or resolution. I would imagine a few of the shots were like what we did to the few Iraqi Air Force planes that rose up against us in this and previous conflicts. They went down the runway, rotated, got their gear up, then exploded--usually within sight of the tower.

Be interesting to see the ROEs. It would be cool to see the results of a furball. One thing to note is the F-22A is the only US fighter that can maneuver (pull Gs) while supersonic. It can also putt along at mach 1.5+ w/o afterburners.

Here’s some scenarios from the website. They don't make it easy for these guys. They usually train four on twelve.

Quote:
Each day offers new challenges. Blue forces don’t know how they’ll be confronted by their red opponents, but they will have to react appropriately to meet their objective. The Ohio National Guard simulates most of the red forces for the exercise, while Air Force F-15 Eagles and Marine F-18 Hornets switch between blue and red to vary the warfare scenarios.

During the first week of the exercise, the daily focus has been either air-to-air tactics, air-to-ground tactics or personnel recovery. For example, Air Force F-22 Raptors and F-15 Eagles went against Air Force F-16 Fighting Falcons, and Navy F-18 Hornets and EA-6B Prowlers in an air-to-air combat scenario yesterday, Colonel Marselus said.

The second and final week of the exercise will be a full integration of air-to-air, air-to-ground and personnel recovery scenarios simultaneously in the Gulf of Alaska with two Navy destroyers, the USS Chafee and the USS O’Kane.
http://www.f-22raptor.com/


Speaking of F/A-18s, the Super Hornets are (hopefully) all going to be made and or retrofitted with AESA sensors and are going to be upgraded in the radar cross section department. The goal is to get the RCS down to that of the JSF. Might be doable as the F-18 is (I believe) is the only current fighter with hidden fans—spinning fan blades are HUGE radar reflectors.
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