How bad is CF dust

[davidfee]

Ok, but the sunshine we all enjoy is a carcinogen. Each and every one of us gets some form of skin cancer every day... but our bodies are wonderful things... one cancerous cell is generally no problem for a healthy immune system. Of course, it's a different story when our immune system is somehow compromised... or when many cells are affected faster than the immune system can destroy them. If there's one thing I've learned in school, it is that "everything causes cancer."

Bottom line: Just be careful... how ever you want to interpret "careful"... and enjoy your hobby.

[davidfee]

BTW Jim, I'm on your side. I'm a chemist also. (well, I'm still in school, but you know what I mean) I'm just a bit on the sensitive side because, being in school (especially here in CA), I see a lot of hysteria and paranoia caused by misinformation or just misunderstanding. You are absolutely right to be careful with what you inhale. Since my spontaneous pneumothorax (collapsed lung) 2 years ago, I've been especially careful. I'd just hate to see someone's enjoyment of this fine hobby jeapordized by fear. Education is the key here, I guess.

Red Baron:
Be careful when cutting carbon rods. To avoid generating dust, wrap the rod with tape at the point you want to cut. Lay a moistened paper towel under the rod on your cutting surface. Then cut the rod with a single edged razor blade by rolling the rod back and forth under the pressure of the blade. This may take several full rotations, but the dust generation will be quite minimal, and very controlable.

Enjoy.



David

[jimbarstow]

Originally posted by davidfee:
BTW Jim, I'm on your side. I'm a chemist also

What kind of chemistry do you do?
I got an undergrad degree then a phd in synthetic organic. Since getting my phd though I've only done computer science. I loved the chemistry but realized a life in the lab would be torture.

[DEATHspiral]

To minimize carbon fiber dust, use a pair of dikes and cut the rod. It's alot easier than sawing and takes like 2seconds. SNAP. CRACKLE. and POP.

A little bit of carbon fiber dust isn't going to kill you. Just like anything, too much of something is bad, too much salt, you get high blood pressure... you get the gist.

[davidfee]

Well, being an undergrad, I do the kind of chemistry that they tell me to do. My research/career interests lay (lie?) in polymers/materials. Basically, industrial stuff like plastics and adhesives are most interesting to me. Epoxy is a passion for me. Like you, I'm not crazy about the idea of spending my life in a lab, so I might be kind of stuck. I just wish I could get more excited about organic synthesis. Maybe I just had boring organic profs?

Sorry this has drifted so far off topic...

[Mighty Mik]

Originally posted by Red Baron 47:
I'm such a beginner I haven't even cut a CF rod yet. I hear a Dremel cut off wheel is best. That makes dust. I was going to do it in the basement, but that's a pain since my building area is on the first floor. I thought of doing it in a cardboard box. Maybe it's heavy enough to not blow out. Then I thought of putting an old Dust Buster in there and directing the cuttings into that. If the bag isn't fine enough that would make matters worse by blowing the dust around.

I used to sand fiberglass and itched for days afterward.

What do you folk do?

Thanks,
RB

My supplier told me that CF dust can be bad news to your lungs, and you should wear a mask when cutting it.

[Red Baron 47]

Thanks all! I cut my rod. It's 0.04" dia. I tried the "roll under a razor blade and snap it" technique. It gave a nice, clean break. I cut a piece with some dykes and it was a bit squashed, but ok. A squeeze with some pliers will round it. After the rod is in place, you can't roll it with a razor blade and I'd rather cut and fit than measure.

Those techniques won't work with larger stuff. I'll just cut slow and trap the shavings. The worry about electronics is important. Even if you don't care about your health, keep your computer happy. If you have hot air heat/air and no electronic filter, the dust goes all over the house.

RB

[Crete1]

Originally posted by jimbarstow:
I have very little scientific info to back this up but my background is as a chemist.

Asbestos causes problems in the lungs primarily through mechanical means; it doesn't react chemically. I would be concerned that carbon fiber might act in the same fashion. There is NO safe level of asbestos exposure. Keep in mind that it took decades to discover the problems with asbestos.

I never cut carbon fiber with a saw, I hack
at it with blade and wear a respirator. This is one case where it may pay to be extra careful.

Hello,

This fellow has a good point. You do not want to inhale fine particle dust. Anything smaller than 5 microns can settle into your lungs and not be expelled. Particulate matter as small as 2.5 microns can get into the smallest regions of your lungs and not be expelled. Granted you'll have to suck up alot of this stuff to have some problems, but we have a lifetime exposure to multiple sources of particulate matter. So what inhale more than necessary?

A dust mask will cut your intake significantly. Make sure you have a tight fit around your mouth and nose.. If you can say the word "Rainbow" and not have the mask move on your face you have a good fit. Otherwise if you form a gap, the fit is not snug enough to work with.

Keeping your work area wet is also an excellent idea. This keeps dust from getting airborn. What's worse is it's the dust you can't see that's the problem. The dust you do see can be moved out by your mucocilliary tract easily... And since CF is not something the body can use white blood cells to dissolve you won't be able to "eat" it. I'll save you the whole procells of potential cancer, ect... Just be CAREFUL and use some COMMON SENSE. I wouldn't worry that much about it. Not like your working in a CF or asbestos factory.


Ok, enough from me. I just got my interest peaked, and since I have a Bachelors in this area I tend to get excited.

(Heh.. My education was good for something.... Wow... )



[This message has been edited by Crete1 (edited 05-19-2001).]

[Phil G]

Well, I have a different perspective:

Carbon fiber BY ITSELF is largely inert in the body. I learned more about it than I wanted to when I had a severed tendon in my left hand (middle extensor).

I'll carry a piece of CF with me as long as I live and play Sax...

The danger is more in the plastic/epoxy binding than the CF itself.

I started gluing models together over 30 years ago and have always made sure to have a fan blowing the fumes/dust/whatever away from me.

I paint R/C bodies and full scale car parts (haven't painted a whole car yet, but check back with me)...

I use a Wilson NIOSH/IMSHA-rated mask that is good for everything but NBC when I'm painting or using solvents.

They cost more than a couple boxes of paper masks, but I like my lungs (rather attached to them)...

You cannot go wrong with one of these or it's equivalent.

Good ventilation is the key after that. One trick I use is a scale paint booth made out of a cardboard box about 3'x3'x3' attached to a shopvac with it's exhaust piped outside.

I cut CF with a dremel abrasive disc (tubes are harder to cut) and make sure the dust is thrown away from me (old machinist habit, learned it from an old machinist, my Granddad)...

Reminds me I need a couple of fresh cartridges for "The Mask"...