How bad is CF dust

[Red Baron 47]

I'm such a beginner I haven't even cut a CF rod yet. I hear a Dremel cut off wheel is best. That makes dust. I was going to do it in the basement, but that's a pain since my building area is on the first floor. I thought of doing it in a cardboard box. Maybe it's heavy enough to not blow out. Then I thought of putting an old Dust Buster in there and directing the cuttings into that. If the bag isn't fine enough that would make matters worse by blowing the dust around.

I used to sand fiberglass and itched for days afterward.

What do you folk do?

Thanks,
RB

[Dorme]

I cut it with a small #13 saw from X-acto. I don't use power saws to cut it because of the dust. If you do cut it with a dremel, use a bottle of water to mist the area and CF. The water won't hurt it and will keep the dust from becoming airborne. Use a mask and toss it after.

[sf_247]

I have used a dremel to modify CF pieces with good luck, but it does make a lot of fine dust. An extension cord and the back yard may be the answer.

Shawn
eflightpower.com

[Red Baron 47]

You guys confirmed my fears.

Dorme, how much work is it sawing it? Do the blades dull quickly? Could I just put a damp paper towel under my PanoVice for debris?

Shawn, I thought of that, but that's as much of a pain as going downstairs.

I have some coarse, flexible cutting wheels for my Dremel. They're a bit larger in diameter than the heavy duty brittle ones. Maybe put one of those in my 6v electric drill on low speed and hold it in a water trough... Maybe I'm nuts too.

I know I won't let it get around.

[radix2]

Originally posted by Red Baron 47:
how much work is it sawing it? Do the blades dull quickly? Could I just put a damp paper towel under my PanoVice for debris?

Red,
Before you get too bound up on this one, I would recommend cutting a couple of pieces to see what is is like. Unless you are building a F-16 in 1:1 scale, I doubt you will be generating much dust from this activity.

A small Xacto or Zona saw works fine, and the small kerf (~1/64") turns very little material to dust. CF saws very easily due to its brittleness, for the sizes we use, a couple of pulls is all it takes. Personally, I save the cut-off wheels for heavy music wire myself. YMMV

[Daveairway]

Carbon Fiber is very, very, nasty stuff. Do NOT get it in your lungs. It will not leave and will (may?) cause big time problems.

I sneak outside with a very fine tooth jewelers saw..... and mask.

Dave

[davidfee]

I'll second radix2's motion. I use lots of carbon, and I basically don't worry about it unless I'll be doing a LOT of sanding. At most, I'll use a paper mask. When sanding, I often use some water, but that's just because the sandpaper works better wet. For rods, I'd just use a Zona saw... as people have said, 2 or 3 strokes should have you through it. I'm more afraid of balsa dust than carbon.

take care and have fun!
-David

[Red Baron 47]

Thanks again guys. I have a "standard" set of 3 xacto saws. They fit in the big handle and have ribs down their backs. Is one of those what you're talking about?

RB

[leccyflyer]

One thing to watch out for though is if your computer (or other electronic bits) are in the same room as you are doing your CF cutting or sanding.

IIRC the military have "carbon bombs" which more or less spread carbon dust in an airburst and completely disable the enemies electronics- wot wiv carbon being conductive and all that, it isn't the best stuff to get sucked into your PC.

Of course I may have just seen that in a James Bond film

cheers

Brian

[jimbarstow]

I have very little scientific info to back this up but my background is as a chemist.

Asbestos causes problems in the lungs primarily through mechanical means; it doesn't react chemically. I would be concerned that carbon fiber might act in the same fashion. There is NO safe level of asbestos exposure. Keep in mind that it took decades to discover the problems with asbestos.

I never cut carbon fiber with a saw, I hack
at it with blade and wear a respirator. This is one case where it may pay to be extra careful.

[Daveairway]

Jim,

I really think that you are right. Same goes with CA glue and epoxy. Some people get away with it for a while.... I know of others who have not! Why take the chance?

We have alot of items in this hobbie that can get you (props are one, even hand carved ones, Jim I really like your planes.) Again, I suggest that we all treat the aspects and dangers of modeling with respect!

Dave

[This message has been edited by Daveairway (edited 05-17-2001).]

[leccyflyer]

More seriously now... thanks for the heads up Jim

Here's a link to the asbestos research institute website which evaluates the various asbestos substitutes
http://www.asbestos-institute.ca/pre...ppendix_2.html

Anectdotal evidence of 90 year old grannies (who used to spread asbestos dust on their cornflakes before lighting up the first of their 90 Capstan Full Strength of the day) apart it is generally agreed that there is a health problem with asbestos. That problem is mechanical, due to the particular configuration of the fibres, and other fibrous materials listed in this link apparently have similar health risks.

I learned of the sad death of a fellow modeller and well known UK eflight supplier just a few weeks ago who had apparently contracted a fatal carcinoma which was attributed to a minimal exposure to asbestos some 30 years ago. Anyone from a mining district will know many miners who lost their lives to "the dust" or pneumoconyosis (dunno if that spelling is even close to correct). It makes sense to take precautions with this stuff - including carbon fibre and "normal" fibreglass. Mind you don't poke your eye out with the thin rods as well

cheers

Brian

[davidfee]

I'm not meaning to dispute the possible effects (long or short-term) of carbon dust inhalation... but how much carbon dust does one expect to inhale from cutting a couple carbon rods? I assume we're talking about the ones used in things like the IFO/mouse slow-fliers. It seems to me that this amount of dust is easily confined by means of misting with water, etc., and as a result can not pose any significant health risk. A paper mask should be more than sufficient protection, assuming you are not grinding the stuff right next to your face. We are not talking about industrial applications and career-term exposure, I presume.

Obviously we want to keep any sort of particulate matter out of our lungs. This is true of anything... be it carbon dust, balsa dust, smoke or dirt. The silicates in the dust at the beach/desert/rock quarry will be carcinogenic in the same mechanical way as asbestos. It seems to me that good technique and common sense can go a long way here. Let us please not start any hysteria like I saw surrounding boron fibers back in the 80's (I was just a kid and I was terrified!).

Work carefully, use common sense, protect yourself and you will enjoy this hobby for a lifetime.

God bless,
David

[jimbarstow]

Originally posted by davidfee:
I'm not meaning to dispute the possible effects (long or short-term) of carbon dust inhalation... but how much carbon dust does one expect to inhale from cutting a couple carbon rods? I assume we're talking about the ones used in things like the IFO/mouse slow-fliers. It seems to me that this amount of dust is easily confined by means of misting with water, etc., and as a result can not pose any significant health risk. A paper mask should be more than sufficient protection, assuming you are not grinding the stuff right next to your face. We are not talking about industrial applications and career-term exposure, I presume.

Obviously we want to keep any sort of particulate matter out of our lungs. This is true of anything... be it carbon dust, balsa dust, smoke or dirt. The silicates in the dust at the beach/desert/rock quarry will be carcinogenic in the same mechanical way as asbestos. It seems to me that good technique and common sense can go a long way here. Let us please not start any hysteria like I saw surrounding boron fibers back in the 80's (I was just a kid and I was terrified!).

Work carefully, use common sense, protect yourself and you will enjoy this hobby for a lifetime.

God bless,
David

I agree that common sense is necessary and taking precautions is an individual's choice. Some things to consider though...

Toxins and carcinogens work in fundamentally different ways. With a carcinogen, theoretically all it needs do is to convert one cell and you are dead. When dealing with potential carcinogens I am VERY careful. With normal toxins, I admit to being much more relaxed.

[jimbarstow]

Originally posted by davidfee:
The silicates in the dust at the beach/desert/rock quarry will be carcinogenic in the same mechanical way as asbestos

One more thing...

Silicosis is a well documented but poorly monitored disease. The powers that bee (OSHA) seems to rediscover it every decade or so when another bunch of cases crop up. (I heard that sandblasting has been banned in the UK due to well documented health effects. It is obviously still allowed in the US. I wonder if any of our UK contributors can verify this?)