Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jun 25, 2006, 12:21 PM
Professional Crasher
Joined Apr 2004
1,035 Posts
Question
What's a good CA debonder?

I've tried several CA debonders, and aside from one, every one of them I've tried were a joke. They may or may not remove CA that's on the surface of my plane, but I have found nothing that lets me, say, pull the stab out after I've CA'ed it in place (maybe during repair of a wreck-ci-dent ). What's the best you guys have found? The one I've found was at The Model Box, but it wasn't quite enough to unglue my stab. I'm looking for something a bit more powerful.
lectraplayer is offline Find More Posts by lectraplayer
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jun 25, 2006, 02:50 PM
Registered User
Runcorn,Cheshire,UK
Joined Nov 2005
76 Posts
theres 4 `basic` types avaiable

1) some people use acetone, its good for wiping smears of CA or if you can soak something in it eg bottle nozzles, acetone isnt that good a solvent for CA but it does work

2) Nitromethane works better on some CA than acetone, but tends to damage paints/films in high concentrations and doesnt work on all CA

3) comenrcial `acetone based` debonders are far better than either of the above as they contain additives to prevent the glue going tacky as it drys, they work quickly but tend to dry quickly making them good for bdebonding fingers and wiping small bits, not good on large areas, work on all CA and contain no nitromethane but around 90-95% acetone

4) `Solvent free` commercial debonders also have `anti tack` additives, can be put on a surface and left for hours to woek through a lump of CA, once its in the CA the CA is like a soft gel virtualy indefinately, good for thick layers, work on all CA, they work quickly on any CA but can be left if required

Usualy best trying to snap it with a sharp tap after scoring the glue line!
Wil666 is offline Find More Posts by Wil666
Last edited by Wil666; Jun 26, 2006 at 02:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 25, 2006, 02:58 PM
Sweet!
Quacker's Avatar
United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Jul 2001
2,819 Posts
Golden West Super Solvent works very well and has no acetone. It will not hurt foam--even FFF. I found it at my LHS.
Quacker is offline Find More Posts by Quacker
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 26, 2006, 05:32 AM
Registered User
vintage1's Avatar
East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
29,687 Posts
Only acetone and nitromethane actually dissolve CA, and they evaporate too fast to be any use in debonding jonts..but make great soaks for clogged nozzles..

Commercial debonders are all based on a mixture of those tow things, and are a little better at controlling evaporation.

However for the quited problem, I find the a dremel is the best resort

Then a quick sand, and as strip of 1/32" balsa to make good, and try again..
vintage1 is offline Find More Posts by vintage1
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 26, 2006, 08:31 AM
Sweet!
Quacker's Avatar
United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Jul 2001
2,819 Posts
Me thinks the vapor pressure is a bit too low in merry old.
Quacker is offline Find More Posts by Quacker
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 26, 2006, 02:13 PM
Registered User
Runcorn,Cheshire,UK
Joined Nov 2005
76 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage1
Commercial debonders are all based on a mixture of those tow things, and are a little better at controlling evaporation.
.
Most `commercial` debonders dont contain any acetone or nitromethane, there are much better solvents for CA,the only time acetone is used is to reduce the cost , most people wont use nitromethane as the hazzards make it too hard to store and there are better solvents to use that work quicker for longer and are non toxic, non flammable and dont need warnings on the bottle
Wil666 is offline Find More Posts by Wil666
Last edited by Wil666; Jun 26, 2006 at 04:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 26, 2006, 04:58 PM
Registered User
vintage1's Avatar
East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
29,687 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil666
Most `commercial` debonders dont contain any acetone or nitromethane, there are much better solvents for CA,the only time acetone is used is to reduce the cost , most people wont use nitromethane as the hazzards make it too hard to store and there are better solvents to use that work quicker for longer and are non toxic, non flammable and dont need warnings on the bottle
If so, please quote them, because the info on CA that I and others have found, suggests that those are, in fact, the only solvents.

My Pacer debonder only mentions acetone as an active ingredient.

It cost as much for 30ml as 500ml of acetone
vintage1 is offline Find More Posts by vintage1
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 26, 2006, 05:30 PM
Oxford Panic
AndyOne's Avatar
United Kingdom, Oxford
Joined Feb 2003
3,654 Posts
I've used Deluxe Materials Glue Buster and it works immeasurably better than acetone, I'm not sure what's in it but it dissolves every bit of errant CA even stuff that I got on my clothes from years ago.

Andy.
AndyOne is offline Find More Posts by AndyOne
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 26, 2006, 05:48 PM
Registered User
Runcorn,Cheshire,UK
Joined Nov 2005
76 Posts
I wont say what is used now as a solvent!,

but many others are available but not generaly obtainable by the general public , hence why commercial debonders are generaly better

simple reason...... we sell a lot of it and we protect it! , finding out whats best takes a long time and the chemicals are a trade secrets !, we do list the main constituent on the msds,
however in the `solvent free` grades we also have water and a detack agent, and many esters from the same class of chemicals, preventing us listing the name if the active part on the msds, the hazzards are listed but not the acive part even though it makes up over 80%, its realy lots of 5% or so quantities

the zap debonder may list acetone as the only component, i havent anylised the latest debonders from zap but i have tested it how it works, but i am almost certain that it wont be pure acetone as the active ingredient, we list acetone as the only component in out `std` debonder and im sure pacer only list the minimum information as everyone else does!

When we do a data sheet most chemicals can be added upto 5% with only adding a breif change to the hazards,no mention of the chemical is required on the data sheets, upto 2.5% most dont even need any hazzards listing,hence the vague data on msds sheets, most ca for example contains ethyl CA, perspex powder and hydroquinone, 2 completely different grades will have identical msds sheets!

The trace anti tack additives are very high cost, as are the patents protecting them, hence the high cost if these are used
Wil666 is offline Find More Posts by Wil666
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 26, 2006, 06:00 PM
Registered User
vintage1's Avatar
East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
29,687 Posts
Well clogged caps full of CA were totally clean after an overnight soak in acetone. So it fully dissolves in acetone allright..but it takes time.

I believe nitro is a bit more agressive..maybe thats whats in yours.

Wikipedia also suggest methyl ethyl ketone works.

Diethylene glycol dimethyl ether comes up on a search as well.

Here is a quote from a manufacturer's data sheet.

Quote:
Cured PERMABOND adhesives have good resistance to many common solvents. (See table below.) However, the cured resistance is reduced as the polarity of the solvent increases. Non- polar solvents such as gasoline, motor oil, and dioctyl phthalate (DOP) have only a minimal effect but polar solvents cause severe bond deterioration. Alcohols will only deteriorate bonds over several months, but acetone is a good solvent for cyanoacrylate. Boiling water will destroy the bonds in less than 24 hours and this process is accelerated when the solution is alkaline. Amines tend to dissolve the bond rapidly. Most solvent washes will not affect the adhesive bonds due to the short exposure
Another technical paper notes that CA melts at 188F..so use of a fine soldering iron to separate parts is not unreasonable as well.

Here is another quote:-

Quote:
ethyl type cyanoacrylates are dissolved by acetone, methyl ethyl ketone, nitromethane and dimethylformamide. Methyl types are dissolved only by strong polar solvents such as nitromethane and also dimethylformamide.
And another
Quote:
Most of the solvents used for removal of cyanoacrylates adhesives are either highly flammable or toxic and should be used with great care. Components should be checked for compatibility with the solvents. They may require soaking for a number of hours to remove the adhesive. Listed are some of the solvents: acetone, acetonitrile, methylene chloride, methyl sulphoxide, and dimethylformamide.
So there are others than acetrone and nitromethane, but those two are the most common.
vintage1 is offline Find More Posts by vintage1
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 26, 2006, 06:24 PM
Registered User
Runcorn,Cheshire,UK
Joined Nov 2005
76 Posts
Acetonitrile is the one people used to sell a lot..., young children used to open it , notice it smelt of grapes/almonds and drink it,
it turned to cyanide in there stomach and they died!, happened lots of times, we use it in an industrial grade and i think a few people do but i dont think its sold to the public by anyone anymore, it realy is nasty stuff!

Methylene chloride, evaporates too quickly, far far quicker than acetone and is highly toxic, if it didnt evaporate it would burn on skin!, it has 2 scull and crossbones symbols on the chemical drums.....

Our chemicals used in the debonder arnt listed there! , most peoples arent!, we havent used nitromethane since 1994, stoped using acetonitrile in a green colored `retail` solvent free debonder in 1999

Most of the chemicals listed above will evaporate through plastic bottles so difficult to store and use and are toxic unlike the new technology ones that are non flammable, non toxic and water soluble.

never tried the glycol ethers, but like phalates i cant see them working as we do use them in some adhesives and they dont do very much to anything!, MEK should work slightly better thn acetone but again it evaporates quite quickly like acetone and is quite hard to get as its used in making drugs these days

Use of heat to seperate is dangerous, CA distills off rapidly abouve 160 degC , the `gas` that leaves the soldering iron is liquid CA as it cools when you breathe it in., if it burns it can form highly toxic compounds
Wil666 is offline Find More Posts by Wil666
Last edited by Wil666; Jun 26, 2006 at 06:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 18, 2006, 09:10 PM
Professional Crasher
Joined Apr 2004
1,035 Posts
What are some "solvent-free" debonders that you guys have found works? What I've tried would be something I've found at my lhs, but it takes awhile, and still seems to dry before it can break up joints and stuff. Highly expensive too. It would be really nice to break up the joints on my plane so I can cover the control surfaces seperately.
lectraplayer is offline Find More Posts by lectraplayer
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 24, 2006, 09:41 PM
Registered User
exempt's Avatar
Providence, RI
Joined May 2001
380 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacker
Golden West Super Solvent works very well and has no acetone. It will not hurt foam--even FFF. I found it at my LHS.
Yes I agree, this stuff seems to work fairly well, I haven't needed to use it in a while but if I remember correctly it has a somewhat "Citrus" smell to it much like the many "orange" citrus based cleaners you see now. Maybe that's the secret.
exempt is offline Find More Posts by exempt
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 27, 2006, 01:35 PM
Registered User
Runcorn,Cheshire,UK
Joined Nov 2005
76 Posts
Ive never had much luck with the `citrus` additives , they work well on debonding silicone though
Wil666 is offline Find More Posts by Wil666
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What's a good, inexpensive slow charger for small packs? DaJudge Electric Plane Talk 5 Oct 28, 2001 09:57 AM
What's a good mosquito HLG? windsurfer Electric Sailplanes 2 Aug 04, 2001 04:26 PM
What's a good beginner hotliner? windsurfer High Performance 17 Jul 20, 2001 10:09 AM
What's a good source for CF rods? windsurfer Parkflyers 7 Jul 12, 2001 10:47 PM
what's a good foamie for these battery packs ericstac Foamies (Kits) 3 May 03, 2001 12:55 AM