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Old Jun 20, 2006, 06:11 PM
Jennifer Smith
Guest
n/a Posts
Thanks a lot! - And the bad news: I got bored... again...

First and foremost, thanks a lot for your guys help with retracts, and
for clarifying the downwind issue.

The retracts work perfectly now, and the answer to the tail "breaking
out" on downwind laps was indeed to hit the throttle - the plane then
gets a bit twitchy when a gust hits it, but nothing too serious. I'm
thinking of putting a gyro in as a stabilizer, that ought to take care
of it I guess.

Well... and since I love my plane so much I decided to build another
one, fixing the various bad design ideas I had when building the first
200% Stryker. Also, I wanted to have it land on water... (yeh, I do get
weird ideas at times)

Things fixed:
- Wing attachment is now done with three hollow CF tubes in the center
body part, into which I insert the wings CF rods. More difficult to
align during construction, but sturdier. Fixing the wings in place is
still done with collars that get screwed onto the CF rods inside the
main body. I might experiment with rubber bands, but so far I don't
trust them.
- Rear end considerably strengthened by putting a couple more CF rods
lengthwise from the motor mounts almost all the way to the front.
- Leading wing edge reinforced with a CF rod to prevent transport damage
(dents - my car is a little on the small-ish side for that hobby).
- Vertical fins cut down in half and slightly reshaped to allow for a
little more prop clearance.
- Air intake inlets redesigned to guide the air over the batteries and
ESC, then out right past the twin engines.

Since I wanted it to land (and takeoff) from water, I put a "drain"
approximately two inches from the air intake, and routed the air flow so
that water should never get into the main compartment. Out of paranoia I
did however put spacers below the electronics so that even if water gets
there, it _should_ run under the electronics, not through them

Well, floats... I had read up on all kinds of floats, but since the
plane is still comparatively lightweigt despite all the added CF, I
decided to build my own... Yes, yes... I am crazy.

I used thin 2mm depron, and glued it together with a CF rod in it. The
rod sticks out on top and on bottom. I made three pieces this way, all
vaguely shaped like this: |___/ - these are holding the floats. One
piece additionally has a hollow CF rod in it, meant for steering later,
and the CF rod does not extend through to the bottom.

The leading edge got sharpened, the rear edge just mildly blunted, in
hopes to reduce drag. On the bottom of these things I glued
flat-bottomed, hollow ski-shaped boxes, again hand made from depron. The
lower end of the CF rod goes into each of these boxes. The rear, wing
mounted ones are attached off-center, so that the CF rod glues to the
inside walls of the boxes.

Steering was simple... I put a thin plastic sheet under the front
support, and on top of the float. Glides perfectly. In this case I glued
a bit of depron to the inside of the float, right in center, and glued a
thinner CF rod to it. Pushing it through the hollow tube in the front
support, securing it with washer and collar and attaching a servo
provided a steerable front float.

Last but not least I coated the floats with a thin coat of latex paint -
which is a bit heavy. I've got no idea what else to use to waterproof
them though. Someday I need to test if depron even suffers from being
immersed in water, maybe it doesn't need sealing?

Test flight was today, just an hour ago. I'm happy with the results,
it's even just fun speeding over the lake with that thing Props are a
bit close to the water, and takeoffs are a bit challenging yet. I am not
quite sure why, I attribute it to the floats. They seem to "stick" to
the surface a bit.

Landing was easy. Just come in low, keep it a few inches off the water
(pull up while it slows down) and when it stalls it plops down nicely.
Higher speed landings work too though - I nosed one in briefly, but the
shape of the floats pushed it right out and the air intakes were still
bone dry. The tube of the front float seems to suck water up, but it
wasn't more than a drip - I'll ignore it for the time being.

You know the best part? It was all dirt cheap to build (if you ignore
the electronics - and the only things I bought new was servos, ESC and
reciever).


What a fun hobby.

Jenni
Old Jun 20, 2006, 08:11 PM
desmobob
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Thanks a lot! - And the bad news: I got bored... again...

Any photos?

"Jennifer Smith" <jennifer@you-wish-you-knew.mine.nu> wrote in message
news:V6idnYxpa9Wg7QXZnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> First and foremost, thanks a lot for your guys help with retracts, and for
> clarifying the downwind issue.
>
> The retracts work perfectly now, and the answer to the tail "breaking out"
> on downwind laps was indeed to hit the throttle - the plane then gets a
> bit twitchy when a gust hits it, but nothing too serious. I'm thinking of
> putting a gyro in as a stabilizer, that ought to take care of it I guess.
>
> Well... and since I love my plane so much I decided to build another one,
> fixing the various bad design ideas I had when building the first 200%
> Stryker. Also, I wanted to have it land on water... (yeh, I do get weird
> ideas at times)
>
> Things fixed:
> - Wing attachment is now done with three hollow CF tubes in the center
> body part, into which I insert the wings CF rods. More difficult to align
> during construction, but sturdier. Fixing the wings in place is still done
> with collars that get screwed onto the CF rods inside the main body. I
> might experiment with rubber bands, but so far I don't trust them.
> - Rear end considerably strengthened by putting a couple more CF rods
> lengthwise from the motor mounts almost all the way to the front.
> - Leading wing edge reinforced with a CF rod to prevent transport damage
> (dents - my car is a little on the small-ish side for that hobby).
> - Vertical fins cut down in half and slightly reshaped to allow for a
> little more prop clearance.
> - Air intake inlets redesigned to guide the air over the batteries and
> ESC, then out right past the twin engines.
>
> Since I wanted it to land (and takeoff) from water, I put a "drain"
> approximately two inches from the air intake, and routed the air flow so
> that water should never get into the main compartment. Out of paranoia I
> did however put spacers below the electronics so that even if water gets
> there, it _should_ run under the electronics, not through them
>
> Well, floats... I had read up on all kinds of floats, but since the plane
> is still comparatively lightweigt despite all the added CF, I decided to
> build my own... Yes, yes... I am crazy.
>
> I used thin 2mm depron, and glued it together with a CF rod in it. The rod
> sticks out on top and on bottom. I made three pieces this way, all vaguely
> shaped like this: |___/ - these are holding the floats. One piece
> additionally has a hollow CF rod in it, meant for steering later, and the
> CF rod does not extend through to the bottom.
>
> The leading edge got sharpened, the rear edge just mildly blunted, in
> hopes to reduce drag. On the bottom of these things I glued flat-bottomed,
> hollow ski-shaped boxes, again hand made from depron. The lower end of the
> CF rod goes into each of these boxes. The rear, wing mounted ones are
> attached off-center, so that the CF rod glues to the inside walls of the
> boxes.
>
> Steering was simple... I put a thin plastic sheet under the front support,
> and on top of the float. Glides perfectly. In this case I glued a bit of
> depron to the inside of the float, right in center, and glued a thinner CF
> rod to it. Pushing it through the hollow tube in the front support,
> securing it with washer and collar and attaching a servo provided a
> steerable front float.
>
> Last but not least I coated the floats with a thin coat of latex paint -
> which is a bit heavy. I've got no idea what else to use to waterproof them
> though. Someday I need to test if depron even suffers from being immersed
> in water, maybe it doesn't need sealing?
>
> Test flight was today, just an hour ago. I'm happy with the results, it's
> even just fun speeding over the lake with that thing Props are a bit
> close to the water, and takeoffs are a bit challenging yet. I am not quite
> sure why, I attribute it to the floats. They seem to "stick" to the
> surface a bit.
>
> Landing was easy. Just come in low, keep it a few inches off the water
> (pull up while it slows down) and when it stalls it plops down nicely.
> Higher speed landings work too though - I nosed one in briefly, but the
> shape of the floats pushed it right out and the air intakes were still
> bone dry. The tube of the front float seems to suck water up, but it
> wasn't more than a drip - I'll ignore it for the time being.
>
> You know the best part? It was all dirt cheap to build (if you ignore the
> electronics - and the only things I bought new was servos, ESC and
> reciever).
>
>
> What a fun hobby.
>
> Jenni



Old Jun 20, 2006, 08:11 PM
Jennifer Smith
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Thanks a lot! - And the bad news: I got bored... again...

No, I don't have a digicam anymore and hubby didn't get the hint for
B-Day. Just imagine a Stryker, slightly bigger and twin engines (one
behind each fin) and you got it though.

Jenni

desmobob wrote:
> Any photos?
>
> "Jennifer Smith" <jennifer@you-wish-you-knew.mine.nu> wrote in message
> news:V6idnYxpa9Wg7QXZnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> First and foremost, thanks a lot for your guys help with retracts, and for
>> clarifying the downwind issue.
>>
>> The retracts work perfectly now, and the answer to the tail "breaking out"
>> on downwind laps was indeed to hit the throttle - the plane then gets a
>> bit twitchy when a gust hits it, but nothing too serious. I'm thinking of
>> putting a gyro in as a stabilizer, that ought to take care of it I guess.
>>
>> Well... and since I love my plane so much I decided to build another one,
>> fixing the various bad design ideas I had when building the first 200%
>> Stryker. Also, I wanted to have it land on water... (yeh, I do get weird
>> ideas at times)
>>
>> Things fixed:
>> - Wing attachment is now done with three hollow CF tubes in the center
>> body part, into which I insert the wings CF rods. More difficult to align
>> during construction, but sturdier. Fixing the wings in place is still done
>> with collars that get screwed onto the CF rods inside the main body. I
>> might experiment with rubber bands, but so far I don't trust them.
>> - Rear end considerably strengthened by putting a couple more CF rods
>> lengthwise from the motor mounts almost all the way to the front.
>> - Leading wing edge reinforced with a CF rod to prevent transport damage
>> (dents - my car is a little on the small-ish side for that hobby).
>> - Vertical fins cut down in half and slightly reshaped to allow for a
>> little more prop clearance.
>> - Air intake inlets redesigned to guide the air over the batteries and
>> ESC, then out right past the twin engines.
>>
>> Since I wanted it to land (and takeoff) from water, I put a "drain"
>> approximately two inches from the air intake, and routed the air flow so
>> that water should never get into the main compartment. Out of paranoia I
>> did however put spacers below the electronics so that even if water gets
>> there, it _should_ run under the electronics, not through them
>>
>> Well, floats... I had read up on all kinds of floats, but since the plane
>> is still comparatively lightweigt despite all the added CF, I decided to
>> build my own... Yes, yes... I am crazy.
>>
>> I used thin 2mm depron, and glued it together with a CF rod in it. The rod
>> sticks out on top and on bottom. I made three pieces this way, all vaguely
>> shaped like this: |___/ - these are holding the floats. One piece
>> additionally has a hollow CF rod in it, meant for steering later, and the
>> CF rod does not extend through to the bottom.
>>
>> The leading edge got sharpened, the rear edge just mildly blunted, in
>> hopes to reduce drag. On the bottom of these things I glued flat-bottomed,
>> hollow ski-shaped boxes, again hand made from depron. The lower end of the
>> CF rod goes into each of these boxes. The rear, wing mounted ones are
>> attached off-center, so that the CF rod glues to the inside walls of the
>> boxes.
>>
>> Steering was simple... I put a thin plastic sheet under the front support,
>> and on top of the float. Glides perfectly. In this case I glued a bit of
>> depron to the inside of the float, right in center, and glued a thinner CF
>> rod to it. Pushing it through the hollow tube in the front support,
>> securing it with washer and collar and attaching a servo provided a
>> steerable front float.
>>
>> Last but not least I coated the floats with a thin coat of latex paint -
>> which is a bit heavy. I've got no idea what else to use to waterproof them
>> though. Someday I need to test if depron even suffers from being immersed
>> in water, maybe it doesn't need sealing?
>>
>> Test flight was today, just an hour ago. I'm happy with the results, it's
>> even just fun speeding over the lake with that thing Props are a bit
>> close to the water, and takeoffs are a bit challenging yet. I am not quite
>> sure why, I attribute it to the floats. They seem to "stick" to the
>> surface a bit.
>>
>> Landing was easy. Just come in low, keep it a few inches off the water
>> (pull up while it slows down) and when it stalls it plops down nicely.
>> Higher speed landings work too though - I nosed one in briefly, but the
>> shape of the floats pushed it right out and the air intakes were still
>> bone dry. The tube of the front float seems to suck water up, but it
>> wasn't more than a drip - I'll ignore it for the time being.
>>
>> You know the best part? It was all dirt cheap to build (if you ignore the
>> electronics - and the only things I bought new was servos, ESC and
>> reciever).
>>
>>
>> What a fun hobby.
>>
>> Jenni

>
>

Old Jun 20, 2006, 08:11 PM
desmobob
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Thanks a lot! - And the bad news: I got bored... again...

I can picture the Stryker, but not the floats. Anyway, nice going! Sounds
like a fun project! Push the husband to get you that digicam. ;-)

Good flying,
desmobob

"Jennifer Smith" <jennifer@you-wish-you-knew.mine.nu> wrote in message
news:aYmdnQZN1ZuxEAXZnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> No, I don't have a digicam anymore and hubby didn't get the hint for
> B-Day. Just imagine a Stryker, slightly bigger and twin engines (one
> behind each fin) and you got it though.
>
> Jenni
>
> desmobob wrote:
>> Any photos?
>>
>> "Jennifer Smith" <jennifer@you-wish-you-knew.mine.nu> wrote in message
>> news:V6idnYxpa9Wg7QXZnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>> First and foremost, thanks a lot for your guys help with retracts, and
>>> for clarifying the downwind issue.
>>>
>>> The retracts work perfectly now, and the answer to the tail "breaking
>>> out" on downwind laps was indeed to hit the throttle - the plane then
>>> gets a bit twitchy when a gust hits it, but nothing too serious. I'm
>>> thinking of putting a gyro in as a stabilizer, that ought to take care
>>> of it I guess.
>>>
>>> Well... and since I love my plane so much I decided to build another
>>> one, fixing the various bad design ideas I had when building the first
>>> 200% Stryker. Also, I wanted to have it land on water... (yeh, I do get
>>> weird ideas at times)
>>>
>>> Things fixed:
>>> - Wing attachment is now done with three hollow CF tubes in the center
>>> body part, into which I insert the wings CF rods. More difficult to
>>> align during construction, but sturdier. Fixing the wings in place is
>>> still done with collars that get screwed onto the CF rods inside the
>>> main body. I might experiment with rubber bands, but so far I don't
>>> trust them.
>>> - Rear end considerably strengthened by putting a couple more CF rods
>>> lengthwise from the motor mounts almost all the way to the front.
>>> - Leading wing edge reinforced with a CF rod to prevent transport damage
>>> (dents - my car is a little on the small-ish side for that hobby).
>>> - Vertical fins cut down in half and slightly reshaped to allow for a
>>> little more prop clearance.
>>> - Air intake inlets redesigned to guide the air over the batteries and
>>> ESC, then out right past the twin engines.
>>>
>>> Since I wanted it to land (and takeoff) from water, I put a "drain"
>>> approximately two inches from the air intake, and routed the air flow so
>>> that water should never get into the main compartment. Out of paranoia I
>>> did however put spacers below the electronics so that even if water gets
>>> there, it _should_ run under the electronics, not through them
>>>
>>> Well, floats... I had read up on all kinds of floats, but since the
>>> plane is still comparatively lightweigt despite all the added CF, I
>>> decided to build my own... Yes, yes... I am crazy.
>>>
>>> I used thin 2mm depron, and glued it together with a CF rod in it. The
>>> rod sticks out on top and on bottom. I made three pieces this way, all
>>> vaguely shaped like this: |___/ - these are holding the floats. One
>>> piece additionally has a hollow CF rod in it, meant for steering later,
>>> and the CF rod does not extend through to the bottom.
>>>
>>> The leading edge got sharpened, the rear edge just mildly blunted, in
>>> hopes to reduce drag. On the bottom of these things I glued
>>> flat-bottomed, hollow ski-shaped boxes, again hand made from depron. The
>>> lower end of the CF rod goes into each of these boxes. The rear, wing
>>> mounted ones are attached off-center, so that the CF rod glues to the
>>> inside walls of the boxes.
>>>
>>> Steering was simple... I put a thin plastic sheet under the front
>>> support, and on top of the float. Glides perfectly. In this case I glued
>>> a bit of depron to the inside of the float, right in center, and glued a
>>> thinner CF rod to it. Pushing it through the hollow tube in the front
>>> support, securing it with washer and collar and attaching a servo
>>> provided a steerable front float.
>>>
>>> Last but not least I coated the floats with a thin coat of latex paint -
>>> which is a bit heavy. I've got no idea what else to use to waterproof
>>> them though. Someday I need to test if depron even suffers from being
>>> immersed in water, maybe it doesn't need sealing?
>>>
>>> Test flight was today, just an hour ago. I'm happy with the results,
>>> it's even just fun speeding over the lake with that thing Props are a
>>> bit close to the water, and takeoffs are a bit challenging yet. I am not
>>> quite sure why, I attribute it to the floats. They seem to "stick" to
>>> the surface a bit.
>>>
>>> Landing was easy. Just come in low, keep it a few inches off the water
>>> (pull up while it slows down) and when it stalls it plops down nicely.
>>> Higher speed landings work too though - I nosed one in briefly, but the
>>> shape of the floats pushed it right out and the air intakes were still
>>> bone dry. The tube of the front float seems to suck water up, but it
>>> wasn't more than a drip - I'll ignore it for the time being.
>>>
>>> You know the best part? It was all dirt cheap to build (if you ignore
>>> the electronics - and the only things I bought new was servos, ESC and
>>> reciever).
>>>
>>>
>>> What a fun hobby.
>>>
>>> Jenni

>>


Old Jun 23, 2006, 02:11 PM
Ed Forsythe
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Thanks a lot! - And the bad news: I got bored... again...

Hi Jenni,
Congratulations - you've come a looong way. Do you have an engineering
background? I assume the "stick to the water" experience occurred on a calm
day when the surface was glassy (no ripples). You can make T.O.s much
easier by taxiing in a circle (male ripples) then take off across the
ripples. Helps break the suction.) That's a technique full scale seaplane
pilots use. Wish you continued success and fun - hope you can get your
husband involved. It will make it easier to get stuff you want if both of
you want it! ;-))

"Jennifer Smith" <jennifer@you-wish-you-knew.mine.nu> wrote in message
news:V6idnYxpa9Wg7QXZnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> First and foremost, thanks a lot for your guys help with retracts, and for
> clarifying the downwind issue.
>
> The retracts work perfectly now, and the answer to the tail "breaking out"
> on downwind laps was indeed to hit the throttle - the plane then gets a
> bit twitchy when a gust hits it, but nothing too serious. I'm thinking of
> putting a gyro in as a stabilizer, that ought to take care of it I guess.
>
> Well... and since I love my plane so much I decided to build another one,
> fixing the various bad design ideas I had when building the first 200%
> Stryker. Also, I wanted to have it land on water... (yeh, I do get weird
> ideas at times)
>
> Things fixed:
> - Wing attachment is now done with three hollow CF tubes in the center
> body part, into which I insert the wings CF rods. More difficult to align
> during construction, but sturdier. Fixing the wings in place is still done
> with collars that get screwed onto the CF rods inside the main body. I
> might experiment with rubber bands, but so far I don't trust them.
> - Rear end considerably strengthened by putting a couple more CF rods
> lengthwise from the motor mounts almost all the way to the front.
> - Leading wing edge reinforced with a CF rod to prevent transport damage
> (dents - my car is a little on the small-ish side for that hobby).
> - Vertical fins cut down in half and slightly reshaped to allow for a
> little more prop clearance.
> - Air intake inlets redesigned to guide the air over the batteries and
> ESC, then out right past the twin engines.
>
> Since I wanted it to land (and takeoff) from water, I put a "drain"
> approximately two inches from the air intake, and routed the air flow so
> that water should never get into the main compartment. Out of paranoia I
> did however put spacers below the electronics so that even if water gets
> there, it _should_ run under the electronics, not through them
>
> Well, floats... I had read up on all kinds of floats, but since the plane
> is still comparatively lightweigt despite all the added CF, I decided to
> build my own... Yes, yes... I am crazy.
>
> I used thin 2mm depron, and glued it together with a CF rod in it. The rod
> sticks out on top and on bottom. I made three pieces this way, all vaguely
> shaped like this: |___/ - these are holding the floats. One piece
> additionally has a hollow CF rod in it, meant for steering later, and the
> CF rod does not extend through to the bottom.
>
> The leading edge got sharpened, the rear edge just mildly blunted, in
> hopes to reduce drag. On the bottom of these things I glued flat-bottomed,
> hollow ski-shaped boxes, again hand made from depron. The lower end of the
> CF rod goes into each of these boxes. The rear, wing mounted ones are
> attached off-center, so that the CF rod glues to the inside walls of the
> boxes.
>
> Steering was simple... I put a thin plastic sheet under the front support,
> and on top of the float. Glides perfectly. In this case I glued a bit of
> depron to the inside of the float, right in center, and glued a thinner CF
> rod to it. Pushing it through the hollow tube in the front support,
> securing it with washer and collar and attaching a servo provided a
> steerable front float.
>
> Last but not least I coated the floats with a thin coat of latex paint -
> which is a bit heavy. I've got no idea what else to use to waterproof them
> though. Someday I need to test if depron even suffers from being immersed
> in water, maybe it doesn't need sealing?
>
> Test flight was today, just an hour ago. I'm happy with the results, it's
> even just fun speeding over the lake with that thing Props are a bit
> close to the water, and takeoffs are a bit challenging yet. I am not quite
> sure why, I attribute it to the floats. They seem to "stick" to the
> surface a bit.
>
> Landing was easy. Just come in low, keep it a few inches off the water
> (pull up while it slows down) and when it stalls it plops down nicely.
> Higher speed landings work too though - I nosed one in briefly, but the
> shape of the floats pushed it right out and the air intakes were still
> bone dry. The tube of the front float seems to suck water up, but it
> wasn't more than a drip - I'll ignore it for the time being.
>
> You know the best part? It was all dirt cheap to build (if you ignore the
> electronics - and the only things I bought new was servos, ESC and
> reciever).
>
>
> What a fun hobby.
>
> Jenni



Old Jun 23, 2006, 04:11 PM
CRaSH
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Thanks a lot! - And the bad news: I got bored... again...

Ed Forsythe wrote:
> can make T.O.s much easier by taxiing in a circle (male ripples) then



hmmmm, little Freudian slip there? d:->))


Old Jun 23, 2006, 04:11 PM
Ray Haddad
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Thanks a lot! - And the bad news: I got bored... again...

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:16:56 -0500, I said, "Pick a card, any card"
and "CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> instead replied:

>Ed Forsythe wrote:
>> can make T.O.s much easier by taxiing in a circle (male ripples) then

>
>hmmmm, little Freudian slip there? d:->))


I was waiting for him to discuss the female ripples and how they get
together then like each other a whole lot . . .
--
Ray
Old Jun 24, 2006, 04:11 PM
Jennifer Smith
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Thanks a lot! - And the bad news: I got bored... again...

Hi Ed

No engineering background at all I'm afraid I helped my dad on
occasion, he likes to work with wood and that's also where my limited
mechanical knowledge comes from.
Believe it or not... I prefer flying to building (or repairing), it's
just that if what I want to fly doesn't seem to exist that I try and
build it myself.

You're right, the surface was quite smooth. I've modified the floats a
little bit to give them a very slight V-shaped underside in hopes that
this will help a bit. Someone suggested tilting the floats a bit so they
gradually lift out of the water - I'll try that last, if nothing else helps.
I'll also try the ripple approach (hoping it'll be a nice flying
afternoon later today - at the moment it's a tad too windy).

Hubby does fly. Sort-of. So far he has problems judging where the ground
is and generally tries to land about 6 feet below ground level. The sad
part is that he bought one of those electric ornithopter bird thingies,
and that one was so much fun to fly... a very different kind of flying
anyway. Now it's beyond repair.

Jenni

Ed Forsythe wrote:
> Hi Jenni,
> Congratulations - you've come a looong way. Do you have an engineering
> background? I assume the "stick to the water" experience occurred on a calm
> day when the surface was glassy (no ripples). You can make T.O.s much
> easier by taxiing in a circle (male ripples) then take off across the
> ripples. Helps break the suction.) That's a technique full scale seaplane
> pilots use. Wish you continued success and fun - hope you can get your
> husband involved. It will make it easier to get stuff you want if both of
> you want it! ;-))
>
> "Jennifer Smith" <jennifer@you-wish-you-knew.mine.nu> wrote in message
> news:V6idnYxpa9Wg7QXZnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> First and foremost, thanks a lot for your guys help with retracts, and for
>> clarifying the downwind issue.
>>
>> The retracts work perfectly now, and the answer to the tail "breaking out"
>> on downwind laps was indeed to hit the throttle - the plane then gets a
>> bit twitchy when a gust hits it, but nothing too serious. I'm thinking of
>> putting a gyro in as a stabilizer, that ought to take care of it I guess.
>>
>> Well... and since I love my plane so much I decided to build another one,
>> fixing the various bad design ideas I had when building the first 200%
>> Stryker. Also, I wanted to have it land on water... (yeh, I do get weird
>> ideas at times)
>>
>> Things fixed:
>> - Wing attachment is now done with three hollow CF tubes in the center
>> body part, into which I insert the wings CF rods. More difficult to align
>> during construction, but sturdier. Fixing the wings in place is still done
>> with collars that get screwed onto the CF rods inside the main body. I
>> might experiment with rubber bands, but so far I don't trust them.
>> - Rear end considerably strengthened by putting a couple more CF rods
>> lengthwise from the motor mounts almost all the way to the front.
>> - Leading wing edge reinforced with a CF rod to prevent transport damage
>> (dents - my car is a little on the small-ish side for that hobby).
>> - Vertical fins cut down in half and slightly reshaped to allow for a
>> little more prop clearance.
>> - Air intake inlets redesigned to guide the air over the batteries and
>> ESC, then out right past the twin engines.
>>
>> Since I wanted it to land (and takeoff) from water, I put a "drain"
>> approximately two inches from the air intake, and routed the air flow so
>> that water should never get into the main compartment. Out of paranoia I
>> did however put spacers below the electronics so that even if water gets
>> there, it _should_ run under the electronics, not through them
>>
>> Well, floats... I had read up on all kinds of floats, but since the plane
>> is still comparatively lightweigt despite all the added CF, I decided to
>> build my own... Yes, yes... I am crazy.
>>
>> I used thin 2mm depron, and glued it together with a CF rod in it. The rod
>> sticks out on top and on bottom. I made three pieces this way, all vaguely
>> shaped like this: |___/ - these are holding the floats. One piece
>> additionally has a hollow CF rod in it, meant for steering later, and the
>> CF rod does not extend through to the bottom.
>>
>> The leading edge got sharpened, the rear edge just mildly blunted, in
>> hopes to reduce drag. On the bottom of these things I glued flat-bottomed,
>> hollow ski-shaped boxes, again hand made from depron. The lower end of the
>> CF rod goes into each of these boxes. The rear, wing mounted ones are
>> attached off-center, so that the CF rod glues to the inside walls of the
>> boxes.
>>
>> Steering was simple... I put a thin plastic sheet under the front support,
>> and on top of the float. Glides perfectly. In this case I glued a bit of
>> depron to the inside of the float, right in center, and glued a thinner CF
>> rod to it. Pushing it through the hollow tube in the front support,
>> securing it with washer and collar and attaching a servo provided a
>> steerable front float.
>>
>> Last but not least I coated the floats with a thin coat of latex paint -
>> which is a bit heavy. I've got no idea what else to use to waterproof them
>> though. Someday I need to test if depron even suffers from being immersed
>> in water, maybe it doesn't need sealing?
>>
>> Test flight was today, just an hour ago. I'm happy with the results, it's
>> even just fun speeding over the lake with that thing Props are a bit
>> close to the water, and takeoffs are a bit challenging yet. I am not quite
>> sure why, I attribute it to the floats. They seem to "stick" to the
>> surface a bit.
>>
>> Landing was easy. Just come in low, keep it a few inches off the water
>> (pull up while it slows down) and when it stalls it plops down nicely.
>> Higher speed landings work too though - I nosed one in briefly, but the
>> shape of the floats pushed it right out and the air intakes were still
>> bone dry. The tube of the front float seems to suck water up, but it
>> wasn't more than a drip - I'll ignore it for the time being.
>>
>> You know the best part? It was all dirt cheap to build (if you ignore the
>> electronics - and the only things I bought new was servos, ESC and
>> reciever).
>>
>>
>> What a fun hobby.
>>
>> Jenni

>
>

Old Jun 25, 2006, 12:11 AM
Martin X. Moleski, SJ
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Thanks a lot! - And the bad news: I got bored... again...

On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:59:06 -0600, Jennifer Smith
<jennifer@you-wish-you-knew.mine.nu> wrote in
<8eWdnW70z7gBOgDZnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com>:

>You're right, the surface was quite smooth. I've modified the floats a
>little bit to give them a very slight V-shaped underside in hopes that
>this will help a bit.


You might also try putting a "step" in the bottom of the float.

When the floats are "on the step," there is less of the float
in contact with the water and therefore less surface tension
holding the plane down.

>Someone suggested tilting the floats a bit so they
>gradually lift out of the water.


That doesn't sound right.

You want a slight positive angle of incidence between
the centerline of the wing's chord and the top surface
of the floats (just a half degree says Cunningham--so that the wing
starts generating lift ASAP). You do not want the
wing's chord canted forward; that will make it want
to stick to the surface of the water as it moves forward.

http://www.seminolerc.com/EZ-Float-Design.html

Let us know how it all works out.

Marty
Old Jun 25, 2006, 12:11 AM
Ken Day
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Thanks a lot! - And the bad news: I got bored... again...

On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:59:06 -0600, Jennifer Smith
<jennifer@you-wish-you-knew.mine.nu> wrote:

>Hi Ed
>
>No engineering background at all I'm afraid I helped my dad on
>occasion, he likes to work with wood and that's also where my limited
>mechanical knowledge comes from.
>Believe it or not... I prefer flying to building (or repairing), it's
>just that if what I want to fly doesn't seem to exist that I try and
>build it myself.
>
>You're right, the surface was quite smooth. I've modified the floats a
>little bit to give them a very slight V-shaped underside in hopes that
>this will help a bit. Someone suggested tilting the floats a bit so they
>gradually lift out of the water - I'll try that last, if nothing else helps.
>I'll also try the ripple approach (hoping it'll be a nice flying
>afternoon later today - at the moment it's a tad too windy).
>
>Hubby does fly. Sort-of. So far he has problems judging where the ground
>is and generally tries to land about 6 feet below ground level. The sad
>part is that he bought one of those electric ornithopter bird thingies,
>and that one was so much fun to fly... a very different kind of flying
>anyway. Now it's beyond repair.
>
>Jenni


Hey Jenni

Been float flying for a long time now amd I love to see the
different things that other modelers come up with.
Try as I may , I can't quite get a mental image of what you
built. Would really enjoy seeing it.

What Ed told you about the water is on the money. They all want to
stick when the water is glassy.

Just rough it up a but with some 'male' and 'female' ripples , much
better than just 'male' ripples. When they get together they can
make....well....you know :-)

How many floats are on it ? I'm picturing three in a V configuration.
Probably wrong...I usually am lol

Ken
>Ed Forsythe wrote:
>> Hi Jenni,
>> Congratulations - you've come a looong way. Do you have an engineering
>> background? I assume the "stick to the water" experience occurred on a calm
>> day when the surface was glassy (no ripples). You can make T.O.s much
>> easier by taxiing in a circle (male ripples) then take off across the
>> ripples. Helps break the suction.) That's a technique full scale seaplane
>> pilots use. Wish you continued success and fun - hope you can get your
>> husband involved. It will make it easier to get stuff you want if both of
>> you want it! ;-))
>>
>> "Jennifer Smith" <jennifer@you-wish-you-knew.mine.nu> wrote in message
>> news:V6idnYxpa9Wg7QXZnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>> First and foremost, thanks a lot for your guys help with retracts, and for
>>> clarifying the downwind issue.
>>>
>>> The retracts work perfectly now, and the answer to the tail "breaking out"
>>> on downwind laps was indeed to hit the throttle - the plane then gets a
>>> bit twitchy when a gust hits it, but nothing too serious. I'm thinking of
>>> putting a gyro in as a stabilizer, that ought to take care of it I guess.
>>>
>>> Well... and since I love my plane so much I decided to build another one,
>>> fixing the various bad design ideas I had when building the first 200%
>>> Stryker. Also, I wanted to have it land on water... (yeh, I do get weird
>>> ideas at times)
>>>
>>> Things fixed:
>>> - Wing attachment is now done with three hollow CF tubes in the center
>>> body part, into which I insert the wings CF rods. More difficult to align
>>> during construction, but sturdier. Fixing the wings in place is still done
>>> with collars that get screwed onto the CF rods inside the main body. I
>>> might experiment with rubber bands, but so far I don't trust them.
>>> - Rear end considerably strengthened by putting a couple more CF rods
>>> lengthwise from the motor mounts almost all the way to the front.
>>> - Leading wing edge reinforced with a CF rod to prevent transport damage
>>> (dents - my car is a little on the small-ish side for that hobby).
>>> - Vertical fins cut down in half and slightly reshaped to allow for a
>>> little more prop clearance.
>>> - Air intake inlets redesigned to guide the air over the batteries and
>>> ESC, then out right past the twin engines.
>>>
>>> Since I wanted it to land (and takeoff) from water, I put a "drain"
>>> approximately two inches from the air intake, and routed the air flow so
>>> that water should never get into the main compartment. Out of paranoia I
>>> did however put spacers below the electronics so that even if water gets
>>> there, it _should_ run under the electronics, not through them
>>>
>>> Well, floats... I had read up on all kinds of floats, but since the plane
>>> is still comparatively lightweigt despite all the added CF, I decided to
>>> build my own... Yes, yes... I am crazy.
>>>
>>> I used thin 2mm depron, and glued it together with a CF rod in it. The rod
>>> sticks out on top and on bottom. I made three pieces this way, all vaguely
>>> shaped like this: |___/ - these are holding the floats. One piece
>>> additionally has a hollow CF rod in it, meant for steering later, and the
>>> CF rod does not extend through to the bottom.
>>>
>>> The leading edge got sharpened, the rear edge just mildly blunted, in
>>> hopes to reduce drag. On the bottom of these things I glued flat-bottomed,
>>> hollow ski-shaped boxes, again hand made from depron. The lower end of the
>>> CF rod goes into each of these boxes. The rear, wing mounted ones are
>>> attached off-center, so that the CF rod glues to the inside walls of the
>>> boxes.
>>>
>>> Steering was simple... I put a thin plastic sheet under the front support,
>>> and on top of the float. Glides perfectly. In this case I glued a bit of
>>> depron to the inside of the float, right in center, and glued a thinner CF
>>> rod to it. Pushing it through the hollow tube in the front support,
>>> securing it with washer and collar and attaching a servo provided a
>>> steerable front float.
>>>
>>> Last but not least I coated the floats with a thin coat of latex paint -
>>> which is a bit heavy. I've got no idea what else to use to waterproof them
>>> though. Someday I need to test if depron even suffers from being immersed
>>> in water, maybe it doesn't need sealing?
>>>
>>> Test flight was today, just an hour ago. I'm happy with the results, it's
>>> even just fun speeding over the lake with that thing Props are a bit
>>> close to the water, and takeoffs are a bit challenging yet. I am not quite
>>> sure why, I attribute it to the floats. They seem to "stick" to the
>>> surface a bit.
>>>
>>> Landing was easy. Just come in low, keep it a few inches off the water
>>> (pull up while it slows down) and when it stalls it plops down nicely.
>>> Higher speed landings work too though - I nosed one in briefly, but the
>>> shape of the floats pushed it right out and the air intakes were still
>>> bone dry. The tube of the front float seems to suck water up, but it
>>> wasn't more than a drip - I'll ignore it for the time being.
>>>
>>> You know the best part? It was all dirt cheap to build (if you ignore the
>>> electronics - and the only things I bought new was servos, ESC and
>>> reciever).
>>>
>>>
>>> What a fun hobby.
>>>
>>> Jenni

>>
>>


Old Jun 25, 2006, 12:11 AM
Joe Ellis
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Thanks a lot! - And the bad news: I got bored... again...

In article <lo2s929ca3vdvba61a9nm6kcjqberms33s@4ax.com>,
"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu> wrote:

> On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:59:06 -0600, Jennifer Smith
> <jennifer@you-wish-you-knew.mine.nu> wrote in
> <8eWdnW70z7gBOgDZnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com>:
>
> >You're right, the surface was quite smooth. I've modified the floats a
> >little bit to give them a very slight V-shaped underside in hopes that
> >this will help a bit.

>
> You might also try putting a "step" in the bottom of the float.
>
> When the floats are "on the step," there is less of the float
> in contact with the water and therefore less surface tension
> holding the plane down.
>
> >Someone suggested tilting the floats a bit so they
> >gradually lift out of the water.

>
> That doesn't sound right.
>
> You want a slight positive angle of incidence between
> the centerline of the wing's chord and the top surface
> of the floats (just a half degree says Cunningham--so that the wing
> starts generating lift ASAP). You do not want the
> wing's chord canted forward; that will make it want
> to stick to the surface of the water as it moves forward.


I thought they meant "tilted" in the longitudinal axis... the "roll"
axis. Tilting both in slightly WOULD tend to make them have less wetted
area as the speed went up... in fact, aren't prototype floats sometimes
shaped with a "half round" or triangular bottom (vertical side towards
the center, rounded up towards the outside \| |/ ) to do exactly
this... in ADDITION to a step?

--
Evaluating all GUIs by the example of Windows is like evaluating all cars
by the example of Yugos.
Old Jun 25, 2006, 12:11 AM
Ken Day
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Thanks a lot! - And the bad news: I got bored... again...

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 00:09:51 -0400, "Martin X. Moleski, SJ"
<moleski@canisius.edu> wrote:

>On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:59:06 -0600, Jennifer Smith
><jennifer@you-wish-you-knew.mine.nu> wrote in
><8eWdnW70z7gBOgDZnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com>:
>
>>You're right, the surface was quite smooth. I've modified the floats a
>>little bit to give them a very slight V-shaped underside in hopes that
>>this will help a bit.

>
>You might also try putting a "step" in the bottom of the float.


I agree. And the step needs to be where "Chuck" says. :-)
I've test flown a few that deviated from that, some a little
and some a lot. Some of them were a real handful.......some never
made it in the air.
Although I'm far from being an authority on float flying , I
was the only one in the immediate area years ago , so I was
the guy to see.......and many times the 'test' pilot LOL
Still not many doing it. I sure wish we had more 'cuz' it sure is a
whole bunch o fun.

>When the floats are "on the step," there is less of the float
>in contact with the water and therefore less surface tension
>holding the plane down.


Yep...just like a boat when it get's on plane.
>
>>Someone suggested tilting the floats a bit so they
>>gradually lift out of the water.

>
>That doesn't sound right.


Not to me either.

>You want a slight positive angle of incidence between
>the centerline of the wing's chord and the top surface
>of the floats (just a half degree says Cunningham--so that the wing
>starts generating lift ASAP). You do not want the
>wing's chord canted forward; that will make it want
>to stick to the surface of the water as it moves forward.


I never try to second guess Cunningham , although I have
deviated from that a bit...not on purpose lol....just messed
up a mite mounting them. Probably not over a degree
but it was not a big problem , but I sure could tell the
difference.
Hard to get a smooth rotation. You're stuck for a bit
and then it pops up.

I love landing...or would that be...watering ?
You can make a long approach with a very gradual
descent (level and no bumps)....and watch the aircraft
slowly meet it's shadow . So graceful...when it's a good
one of course.
Also , I love to hear that little... skimming ??...sound as the
floats make contact with the water. Touch and goes are so
nice too , and so easy to do by just jockeying the throttle
Just hold the sticks right where they were through the
landing , ease the throttle forward and away go again.

Sorry...I could go on for a while about float flying and
bore everyone to death.

Ken

.>http://www.seminolerc.com/EZ-Float-Design.html
>
>Let us know how it all works out.
>
> Marty


Old Jun 25, 2006, 02:11 AM
Martin X. Moleski, SJ
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Thanks a lot! - And the bad news: I got bored... again...

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 04:49:47 GMT, Joe Ellis <synthfilker@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
<synthfilker-7B4CFA.00494825062006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com >:

>I thought they meant "tilted" in the longitudinal axis... the "roll"
>axis. Tilting both in slightly WOULD tend to make them have less wetted
>area as the speed went up... in fact, aren't prototype floats sometimes
>shaped with a "half round" or triangular bottom (vertical side towards
>the center, rounded up towards the outside \| |/ ) to do exactly
>this... in ADDITION to a step?


AH. I see what you mean. I'm not familiar with that shape, but
I see how it would reduce surface area as the plane got some
lift.

Marty
Old Jun 25, 2006, 02:11 AM
Jennifer Smith
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Thanks a lot! - And the bad news: I got bored... again...

Ken Day wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 14:59:06 -0600, Jennifer Smith
> <jennifer@you-wish-you-knew.mine.nu> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ed
>>
>> No engineering background at all I'm afraid I helped my dad on
>> occasion, he likes to work with wood and that's also where my limited
>> mechanical knowledge comes from.
>> Believe it or not... I prefer flying to building (or repairing), it's
>> just that if what I want to fly doesn't seem to exist that I try and
>> build it myself.
>>
>> You're right, the surface was quite smooth. I've modified the floats a
>> little bit to give them a very slight V-shaped underside in hopes that
>> this will help a bit. Someone suggested tilting the floats a bit so they
>> gradually lift out of the water - I'll try that last, if nothing else helps.
>> I'll also try the ripple approach (hoping it'll be a nice flying
>> afternoon later today - at the moment it's a tad too windy).
>>
>> Hubby does fly. Sort-of. So far he has problems judging where the ground
>> is and generally tries to land about 6 feet below ground level. The sad
>> part is that he bought one of those electric ornithopter bird thingies,
>> and that one was so much fun to fly... a very different kind of flying
>> anyway. Now it's beyond repair.
>>
>> Jenni

>
> Hey Jenni
>
> Been float flying for a long time now amd I love to see the
> different things that other modelers come up with.
> Try as I may , I can't quite get a mental image of what you
> built. Would really enjoy seeing it.
>
> What Ed told you about the water is on the money. They all want to
> stick when the water is glassy.
>
> Just rough it up a but with some 'male' and 'female' ripples , much
> better than just 'male' ripples. When they get together they can
> make....well....you know :-)
>
> How many floats are on it ? I'm picturing three in a V configuration.
> Probably wrong...I usually am lol
>
> Ken


You're actually spot on, Ken

There are three floats on the plane. Remember, it's a delta wing WITHOUT
rudder - just elevons (elevator and ailerons mixed). Picture a Parkzone
F27 Stryker twice as big, chop the vertical fins down to half size and
with an engine protruding at wing level behind each fin. The air intakes
are functional and come out just where the engines are mounted.

Two floats are under the wing, slightly (maybe half an inch) behind CG,
and approximately 1/3rd of the wing out from the centerline. One float
is under the nose, and that one is steerable (on the usual rudder channel).

They are, btw, sturdy enough to land on grass just fine.

Jenni
Old Jun 25, 2006, 12:11 PM
Bill Sheppard
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: Thanks a lot! - And the bad news: I got bored... again...

Jenni:
I really got stoked reading this thread. It's rare to see a
lady RC flyer, let alone one who designs and builds from scratch, let
alone such an exotic waterplane as yours. Great job!

Bill(oc)

 


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