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Old May 28, 2006, 04:16 PM
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X-flight Su-27 and Su-47 (Berkut)

Hi,

Both kits arrived last week, now it's time to think about how to build them. With what components.

It's going to be more complex and I want them to become perfect. So there will be a mini-projectplan for building both planes simultaneously. Building will take at least the next half year, don't expect weekly progress ;-)

Components I have thought about and am still thinking over (each plane will contain the items listed below):
  • 2 x Vasa55
  • 2 x ModelMotors MiniAC 1215/12
  • 2 x Jeti Advanced 30
  • 2 x Polyquest 2100mAh or 1 x Evo high capacity
  • 1 x 6 channel receiver
  • Retractable gear with steering nosewheel. It must look life like and in scale. I'll probably use Eurokit struts. With Perfect wheels and a special (slow) retract servo. Automatic landinglights. Probably air retracts.
  • Navigation lights
  • Servo's for canards (Su-47 only), ailerons, tailerons, retracts, nosewheel and perhaps for both tails. I have to study the flightcharacteristics of both Sukhoi's first - I like to be able to fly them really sharp.
  • And of course a 1/16 scale cockpit. With pilot.
  • Little materials like hatchmagnets, hinges, etc.

(Any suggestions are welcome of course)

The projectplan would look something like this:
  • Cut ailerons, tailerons, etc.
  • Create hatches for batteries and both fans
  • Install both fans
  • Install both controllers in front of the fans in the airinlet on a piece of heat isolating carbon, that will keep them cool (I hope), they are near the batteries (shorter wiring) and the outlet remains "clean"
  • Create battery compartments
  • Install navigationlights
  • Build landing gear as seperate units and install them as units afterwards, including landinglights on the nosewheel
  • Install gear tubing
  • Install all servo's and receiver
  • Install all wiring
  • Glue bodyparts together
  • Attach wings, tailparts and canards (Su-47 only)
  • Remove everything - all parts must remain uninstallable - suppose I frie, blow or damage anything - I like to be able to replace parts without having to damage the model - leave wings and tails attached
  • Smoothen all seams and both inlets/outlets
  • Fiber the models, with thanks to Mr.frankenjet for the idea, tips and tricks
  • Paint the models - the colorschemes are attached
  • Re-install all parts
  • Balance, adjust and test
  • Fly!

That's it for now, stay tuned.

Yvo
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Old May 30, 2006, 02:51 PM
I prefer Deans
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Uh oh...

The MiniAC 1215/12 doesn't fit into the Vasa 55 (according to the Internet)...

Alternatives:
MiniAC 1215/16, 3800 rpm/V, 18A, 22 x 47.5 mm, 2.3 mm shaft
Himax 2025-5300, 5300 rpm/V, 25A, 20 x 45 mm, 2 mm shaft

Yvo
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Old May 30, 2006, 02:55 PM
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hyperion motors, short or long,
http://www.aircraft-world.com/prod_d...p/y22/y22s.htm
or the older version of hyperion motors @
http://www.allerc.com/x22spec.htm
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Old May 30, 2006, 03:02 PM
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Hyperion

Thanks, didn't encouter those motors yet...

And when there is some space left inside the kits, I might put something like this in:

http://www.eagletreesystems.com/MicroPower/micro.htm

Yvo
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Old May 30, 2006, 07:15 PM
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Phaeton, the miniac 12/15 12 WILL fit the vasa 55. i have a pair of them in my vasa 55 tandem.
david
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Old May 31, 2006, 04:54 AM
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Fit

Ah, thanks. You are the first one I heard who actually has the combination in use. I can stick to my original plan now...
Do you have any idea about the thrust this combination is able to produce?

Yvo
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Old Jun 18, 2006, 10:30 AM
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Wings...

The wings are fitted to both models. The pictures attached are in original size, perhaps someone wants to zoom in for details.

I'm going for "uncut" elevators on both models, so full moving. Those on the Su-47 are pre-fitted already. A nobrainer with a pair of hinges on each side.
For the Su-27, I have figured out a mechanism that doen't need a tube through the air-outlets, it doesn't need holes at all. At least not through the model.
That is what will be next, pictures will be attached when it works.

At this stage I plan (keep all surfaces smooth) to put all servo's inside the fuselage. Controlsurfaces will be connected through flexible pushrods which will be embedded just beneath the skin of the fuselage. The connection between the pushrod and controlhorn will be kept smooth as well. Also more on that the next time.

So next time:
- Full moving Su-27 elevators
- Pushrods
- Landing gear installation (pneumatic)

Cheers,

Yvo
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Old Jun 19, 2006, 07:49 AM
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i gather you got the larger of the two available Su-27 models. I plan to get the smaller one (it's more like 1/18 than 1/16).

Anyway, my question is: what is a good way to cut off the styrofoam canopy area so you can install the clear canopy? I'm really afraid i will botch the job, as it seems tricky to me.

Any advice appreciated.
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Old Jun 19, 2006, 10:12 AM
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Hi Aferguson

I suggest you use masking tape to trace out the canopy, buy doing this, you will be able to made sure the size and shape are good and even.

After you are sure you happy about the traced area, cut the area out with a sharp cutter.

Regards

Rocky

Quote:
Originally Posted by aferguson
i gather you got the larger of the two available Su-27 models. I plan to get the smaller one (it's more like 1/18 than 1/16).

Anyway, my question is: what is a good way to cut off the styrofoam canopy area so you can install the clear canopy? I'm really afraid i will botch the job, as it seems tricky to me.

Any advice appreciated.
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Last edited by X-flight; Jun 20, 2006 at 02:08 AM.
Old Jun 20, 2006, 12:53 AM
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I am curious to see what you do for the elevators, also where you fit in the retracts
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Old Jun 21, 2006, 04:26 AM
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Canopy and retracts

Indeed, I have the larger Su-27.

About the canopy, that's something that I am still thinking about. What I can imagine that works is marking the outside of the canopy on the fuselage with a thin-pointed marker. First use red. If that looks well, cut away the foam "inside and under" that marking line for about 1/16" (would also be 1/16" or so wide).
If it doesn't look well, take bleu and try again. Or, change colors until you have an outline that does look well.

Or what Rocky suggets can even be better, put tape on the fuselage and when outlining doesn't work, apply new tape and try again. That way, the amount of efforts is limited by the supply of tape and not by the amount of available colors ;-)
Bottom line: I want to "bury" the bottom of the canopy into the fuselage.

About the elevators, the materials needed will arrive tomorrow, so assembly is planned for this weekend. Photo's available by sundaynight I hope.

About the retracts, I expect them to arrive next week, they can be in by the end of this month. But yes, where to fit them in can become a challenge. But they do have to get in ;-)

Stay tuned,

Yvo
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Old Jun 21, 2006, 07:07 AM
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By the way...

... all gaps, grooves and holes you see in/on the models during this project will be fixed with filler just before fiberglass is applied. It will become a lot worse first...

And the Su-27 elevators (when it works) can be detached and re-attached easily when needed... That also applies to the Su-47 canards.

Yvo
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Old Jun 24, 2006, 11:43 AM
I prefer Deans
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Su-27 elevators and Su-47 canards

I started to work on these things today, bu time ran out. Tomorrow is for other things.

So no assembled controlsurfaces, but I'll show some hints:

Su-27:
Two strips of flexible non-tearing material, torque and bend free when glued together with foam in between, will go on the fuselage next to the elevators. Some straps, carbon rods, steering arms as control horns, et voila. See the first attachment.
This "solution" should be strong enough and enables me to detach the elevators for fiberglassing and painting.

Su-47:
I wanted the canards also detachable. Two carbon rods, two carbon tubes in which the rods fit perfectly, one steering arm as control horn and something to "connect" left and right canard, so they can be adjusted and controlled with one control horn. I found this in the modelboat area of one of my favorite webshops. Second attachment.

More when assembly is done.

Yvo
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Old Jun 25, 2006, 05:55 AM
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Hi Yvo

You are a very very serious builder.

Regards

Rocky

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaeton
I started to work on these things today, bu time ran out. Tomorrow is for other things.

So no assembled controlsurfaces, but I'll show some hints:

Su-27:
Two strips of flexible non-tearing material, torque and bend free when glued together with foam in between, will go on the fuselage next to the elevators. Some straps, carbon rods, steering arms as control horns, et voila. See the first attachment.
This "solution" should be strong enough and enables me to detach the elevators for fiberglassing and painting.

Su-47:
I wanted the canards also detachable. Two carbon rods, two carbon tubes in which the rods fit perfectly, one steering arm as control horn and something to "connect" left and right canard, so they can be adjusted and controlled with one control horn. I found this in the modelboat area of one of my favorite webshops. Second attachment.

More when assembly is done.

Yvo
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Old Jun 27, 2006, 02:20 PM
I prefer Deans
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Sneak preview and need time to think...

Well, that's the (only) downside of purchasing through the Internet. You only can "feel" the materials after they've arrived. The struts and retracts arrived today, they are larger then I expected them to be. And I am not that thrilled about the retracts themselves. Perhaps I'll only use them for practising purposes and shop a bit further for the ones that I still plan to get into the Sukhois.

The first attachment is how things could look like, the second one (apologies for the sharpness) shows the very nice treated rubber GreatPlanes wheels and the third visualizes the challenge of getting the retract mechanism in while keeping things solid enough for less beautiful landings. And some G's...

I still have the elevators and canards to do. It seems that my tools are too coarse for the elevator stuff. I can't get things square. Or square enough for my standards . And it takes double the time I planned.

So, waiting for a day or two in which I can finish the elevators and canards (after having borrowed some tools) and thinking how to get the retracts attached to both planes.

By the way, the landing gear in the "real" Su-47 is attached to/in the air inlets. That's not what I am going to do. I don't think that that construction is strong enough and I understood that turbulence-free air inlets in edf's make the difference between enough trust and no trust.

Building is fun, flying in between is more fun. But I total-lossed my fun kit. The next one, an Ikarus Su-27 XXL, will arrive this week. Building and flying that one will go first.

So probably no post for probably a few weeks

Yvo
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