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Old Aug 10, 2006, 09:12 AM
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One month to go - so how many entries do you have from overseas ?????


Brian
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Old Aug 10, 2006, 09:51 AM
ASK
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Espanola, NM USA
Joined Jul 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Wa
One month to go - so how many entries do you have from overseas ?????
None to date. A couple years ago two time F3J Champ David Hobby competed. It seems we are in a transitional and exploration period, one with improvements to the "game", and hopefully a period that will lead to a common meeting ground for F5J.

No doubt the rules have to evolve, and we're doing a significant part of the ground breaking for that. A number of small F5J contests have sprung up around the U.S., each with a slightly different take on the rules.

- Aradhana Singh
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Old Aug 10, 2006, 11:57 AM
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Indianapolis, IN USA
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Originally Posted by ASK
Actually not. Funny thing, too, about the Outrunners. Fred's testing showed an interesting attribute: If you over-prop the performance curve flattens and then goes down, not up.
That's on the current generation of stock sport motors. I'm winding my own, shold be pretty efficient at 35A+. Wait this there's a 50A 28mm NeuMotor for $200<G>.
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Old Aug 10, 2006, 12:07 PM
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So with no International competitors, it can hardly be called a "World Challenge" can it, so why not just change the events title to "Albuquerque F5J Challenge".

Brian
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Old Aug 10, 2006, 12:15 PM
I'm all about that bass
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Weaver
there's a 50A 28mm NeuMotor for $200<G>.
Really, I was just out on their website and did not notice any outrunners....

The question I have is what makes the motor you wound better than say something that could be produced by one of the many places making outrunners right now? Better winding or a more optimized winding? I'd have to think that if such a thing were around it is just a matter of time before places like Hyperion copied it.

My brushless motor experience is limited to one CDROM I rewound (it was a lot of fun, I'll do it again). My understanding is that in at least the CDROM world, there is only so much (OK, I'm going to go into non scientific terms here, sue me) magnetic energy you can produce from a given stator size. To get more, you have to find a bigger stator or go to stacking them (doubles, triples, etc.). This is limited by its physical dimensions and I assume material make up. So what would allow us to have a $200 SuperDuperMotor? More expensive/better/more rare magnets in the rotating can? Better quality bearings or lighter cans to reduce rotational inertia? Perhaps some rare/exotic/expensive stator core material or material with more laminations/thinner layers? Perhaps all of the above?

Im willing to give Outrunner Class a chance. Im likely unable to make it to New Mexico in the near future (a pity, I am sure it would be an absolute blast) but Id buy an outrunner and enter a contest in the Midwest. I was at the Nats. Im hoping to make the X5J Extreme in Muncie in October. Im hoping to make SEFF next year and will fly the electric events there.

Ryan
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Old Aug 10, 2006, 12:20 PM
I'm all about that bass
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Wa
So with no International competitors, it can hardly be called a "World Challenge" can it, so why not just change the events title to "Albuquerque F5J Challenge".

Brian
Jiminy! Wa? Can't a bunch of guys just hold a contest any more without somebody dogging them on the contest's name? They are Challenging the world to come out and try thier breed of F5J. In the past they have had international competitors. Similar to the "International Hand Launch Glider Festival" international participation will wax and wane.

I'm sure if a class called F5J is ever adopted by the FAI they will either actually hold a WC or change the name of this event (or both). Until then, I say fair game to anyone to challenge the world to thier breed of F5J....

Ryan
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Old Aug 19, 2006, 08:04 AM
Dennis Renner
Albuquerque, NM, USA
Joined May 2001
66 Posts
RATZ!!

My trusty Speed 400 Sky Sergio crashed last weekend. During climb-out on the second flight I lost all control at about 100 and it lawn-darted into very wet sod. The first flight went fine!

The nose was buried about 7 and I had to dig out the spinner. There is a good deal of damage to the fuse, wings, motor, and electronics. I do not know if I can fix it by the contest. So, I may be using my backup ship, the Pulsar 1.8M.

I am not totally sure what went wrong. At the June F5J I had serious control problems and I found a servo that would oscillate if I thumped the fuse. So, I replaced the elevator & rudder servos (same brand & model) and all seemed well. The first flight last weekend went well but that second flight was not good.

After a lot of testing yesterday, I was thinking that the ESC is kaput OR, the receiver had/has problems. The ESC, though bent now after the crash, still works on the bench. I have a brand new identical ESC and both operate similarly temperature-wise and operational-wise.

I think the antenna was pulled loose from the RX as a result of the crash and everything moving forward. But I could be wrong. I do not remember removing strands of antenna wire from the solder point and reinspected that solder point yesterday...nothing. Obviously, the RX is being sent in for inspection, and the ESC will not be used for flight again.

One last point of failure could have been the motor. This is the original motor installed and used on the Sergio and is about five years old. Maybe, just maybe, the motor was going bad and drawing lots of current. This might have pulled down the battery pack voltage to a point where the ESC could not operate...thus, the total loss of control. The end bell of the motor was pushed into the can as everything migrated forward at impact. So, the motor is being replaced too.

I hope I can get the Sergio ready the contest, now just a few weeks away. If not, I'll keep you all "on your toes" with the Pulsar at landing time since it likes to fly fast and can only be slowed so far for landing.

See you all soon!
Dennis
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Old Aug 19, 2006, 09:15 AM
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Albuquerque, NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theween
RATZ!!

My trusty Speed 400 Sky Sergio crashed last weekend. During climb-out on the second flight I lost all control at about 100 and it lawn-darted into very wet sod. The first flight went fine!
Dennis, My condolences--it was a fine craft. Hope you can recover in time. Maybe it's time to switch to Outrunner, now that you may have a toasted ESC, anyway.

Richard
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Old Aug 19, 2006, 09:23 AM
Dennis Renner
Albuquerque, NM, USA
Joined May 2001
66 Posts
Richard,

Thanks. Out-runner? Hmmm...maybe next year. I've still got a few Speed 400s to burn up.

Dennis
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Old Aug 19, 2006, 09:41 AM
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An Man!! That's a shame, Dennis Know what it feels like. Boogered up my main (3.5m) wing I use for F5J during an F3J launch. Winch line got hung-up in the flap. All was well coming down, circling around the turnaround till I lost my perpective bout 20" off the ground. Boing!! I've never seen so much speed build up in such short distance of space. Need less to say...the wing was pretty much toast. Spar snapped in half..D-box torn up..TE was history.. bucket full of ribs/subribs reduced to balsa dust, oodles of ripped covering flapping in the breeze. Ask Bruce what that musta looked like since he flys a Graphite, too. So it was tossed into the corner and pretty much written off. My point being--II never, ever toss off a repair like this. But for some odd reason this crunch up devistated me and I tried to ignore it. But..me being me..finally hunkered down, got out the glues/kevlar/CF and now is flying better than before. So, Get at it!..You can DO-ET!!

Want to see you in a few weeks, standing proudly with your Sergio.
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Old Aug 19, 2006, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnshagam
Maybe it's time to switch to Outrunner

Richard
Still sounds like something you'd stick on a boat..Not a sailplane!
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Old Aug 19, 2006, 09:58 AM
Dennis Renner
Albuquerque, NM, USA
Joined May 2001
66 Posts
Steve,

Thanks for the positive push to get the Sergio repaired. It will be close, but if I take your approach it should happen. Seems like the only things that fly well for me at the moment are pylon racers. Unfortunately, they do not thermal very well.

Bummed to hear about your loss. Glad to know it is repaired and you are armed and ready. It will be good to see you in a few weeks...whatever we end up flying!

Dennis
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Old Aug 28, 2006, 01:21 PM
Dennis Renner
Albuquerque, NM, USA
Joined May 2001
66 Posts
Well, we are a little over a week and a half from the contest. The Outrunner entries outnumber the Speed 400 entries by 2.5:1. In fact, there are more Outrunner entries than Limited Class entries. I did not expect that!

It is good to see Dick Moore entered in Outrunner Class. Usually, Dick just comes out as a Timer, giving up his weekend to support the event and the pilots. I am glad I am not competing against you Dick. Can you time for me? I'll time for you.

My damaged Sergio is about 50% repaired. Unfortunately, the closer I look the more damage I find. The fuse and tailfeathers are ready. The wing needs a few more hours of effort. Gonna be close!

I doubt I'll get a flight in before contest day so you might not want to pick a launch tape either side of me! Maybe I'll walk out to the far-end launch tape.

See you all soon!

Dennis
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Old Aug 28, 2006, 07:37 PM
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IBbob31's Avatar
I.B.
Joined Oct 2001
563 Posts
What motors are legal?

At sometime can you list the different Outrunners that are "Legal" for that class. What Hacker? What Axi? ect.... Will try and sell it to our monthly contest. Speed 400 is dying in our club because most fellas use their gliders all the time for fun flying. Most of the Speed 400 die hards have a great set-up and only fly them at the monthly contests, not for fun!! They consistantly are several hundred feet above the "Fun Fly" guys during our 1 min motor run and generally win. I think the Outrunner class with a 2 cell Lipo limit would help to get more entries because more than just a few would start at the same altitude!

Thanks, BOB
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Old Aug 28, 2006, 08:07 PM
ASK
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Espanola, NM USA
Joined Jul 2002
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Bob,
You can start with these. Maybe we can get someone to research the current offerings and make a table with the motors that meet the 28 mm diameter by 16mm specs.

Maker Model Kv Shaft Size
Hacker A20-20L 1022 3mm
Himaxx 2812-1080 1080 4mm
Hyperion HP-Z2213-20 1025 3mm

I'm very happy with the Hacker A20-20L. I think of these three, Fred McClung found the Hacker to have a little better performance.

Aradhana Singh
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