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Old May 23, 2006, 04:35 AM
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Gig Harbor, Washington, United States
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A tail of different lipo packs - and all are good at what they are

I received my 2 5S2P 4000 "sale" priced Big Packs from CommonsenceRC last week (Thanks Mike!!!!) and had a chance to run them this weekend head to head against those newest generation Enerland/Tanic/Poly 5000 packs.

To refresh the details - My motor is a Neu 1515 2Y, 6.7/1 HD Neu gear box,
21x14 APC E, Castle HV110 in a Quest 90 G2 at 11lb 12oz all up weight.

Both packs are 2ea 5S run in series as 10S and started at the same initial voltage and temp - 41.66V (aprox 95% charge) 69 deg F. The following numbers were taken aprox 30 seconds into the run.

2ea 5S1P Enerland/Tanics/Poly 20C-30C = $620.00 (was a sale price from Tanic - but seems to be permanent? regular price = $720 IIRC)
1298 grms (with connectors)
2275 watts
59.8 amps
5790 rpm
The Enerland pack came down after a 10 minute flight at an average of 5C at ambient temp.

2ea 5S2P 4000 CommonsenseRC 15C Big Packs = $ 313.00 (on sale - regular $396)
1301 gms (with connectors)
2098 watts
57 amps
5700 rpm
This pack came down after a flight the same as above at barely over ambient.

That was only the second run up on those CSRC packs at full power, so I
expect them to improve a small amount. Still, those are pretty close numbers to the Enerland cells.

I don't own any big Thunderpower packs to test with, but the obvious set to
compare to would be the newer 2100 prolite 15C cells in a 10S2P configuration.
Draganfly has a 10S2P pack for $490. Weight is listed at 924 gms. I would guess they will perform close to the Commonsense voltage wise - maybe a tad less running at the same load - about 14C or so peak load.

So what do you need/want from a big pack?

Enerland/Tanic/Poly = Max possible power out and super hi voltage under load and run cold under load and more capacity for the same weight as other 15-20C cells, but at Porsche prices?

CommonsenseRC = Very good power out and run cool under load and dirt cheep (relatively anyway) but less capacity?

ThunderPower ProLite (not tested) = Good power out (based on graphs I have seen and the performance of several 3S packs I own), run warmer under load, but should still be fine in this application, mid priced, mid capacity but very significantly lighter (around 13 oz lighter!!)?

Looks to me like all three have their own niche.

What I really want is a pack that performs like the Enerland/Tanic, cost
what the CommonsenseRC packs cost when they are on sale, but weighs what the Thunder power packs weigh.

I wouldn't even mind if the packs didn't have that nasty little habit of
blowing up when over charged

They all look like good packs to me. The Commonsense are the best value, the TP are the lightest by far, but the Enerland pack in some good power.

Larry
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Old May 23, 2006, 04:57 AM
Giz
Tony Rogers
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Bath, UK
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry3215
...

What I really want is a pack that performs like the Enerland/Tanic, cost
what the CommonsenseRC packs cost when they are on sale, but weighs what the Thunder power packs weigh.

...
2 x Hyperion 5s2p 4200 is $399.60 gets fairly close.
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Old May 23, 2006, 09:13 AM
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Kansas
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Larry be sure to get back with us with cycle counts in the future, That is the # we all need to see.

Brian
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Old May 23, 2006, 09:20 AM
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Haralson County GA. USA
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Great real life comparisons Larry. Last summer / fall I had several fellow club members ask me for recommendations for 60-90 glow conversions to electric. I told them the best advice was to wait till next spring/summer(now) since suitable LiPolys,ESCs and Brushless Motors would be less expensive by then.
Most sports Sundays flyers do not really need the top of the line performance LiPolys or motors to enjoy electric flight. Electric Power ,Dual Sky , CommonSence and a few others are marketing some great values in larger less expensive LiPolys.


Charles
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Old May 23, 2006, 02:21 PM
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Gig Harbor, Washington, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC Toys USA
Larry be sure to get back with us with cycle counts in the future, That is the # we all need to see.

Brian

Yup - number of cycles flown per dollar spent is as important as up-front costs.

Those details are a lot harder to pin down tho. They take time mostly - but then there are the user variables. Am I abusing the packs - over temp, over discharge, storage charge level, keeping accurate notes or going by memory or "how did it feel"? It seems to me some packs are more susseptible to one type of abuse than another - but thats just a "feeling" again

On the performance in the air - a "feeling" again - the 5000 cells are noticably more powerfull on the up lines. Its not super dramatic, but you can definately feel that extra 200 watts. It seems to need a notch or two less throttle all around.

Larry
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Old May 23, 2006, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giz
2 x Hyperion 5s2p 4200 is $399.60 gets fairly close.
Those look to be the same cells as the TP 2100's. Same weight and ratings and dimensions. Very good price! That particualr pack configuration wont work for me - its the brick style and wont fit. I wonder if they ahve a stick version?

Larry
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Old May 23, 2006, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer
Great real life comparisons Larry. Last summer / fall I had several fellow club members ask me for recommendations for 60-90 glow conversions to electric. I told them the best advice was to wait till next spring/summer(now) since suitable LiPolys,ESCs and Brushless Motors would be less expensive by then.
Most sports Sundays flyers do not really need the top of the line performance LiPolys or motors to enjoy electric flight. Electric Power ,Dual Sky , CommonSence and a few others are marketing some great values in larger less expensive LiPolys.


Charles
Its hard for me to give a recomendation when asked that question. There are so many variables to take into account.

Price is a big one, but pack configuration and weight and if they will fit in the model are important too as well as how is the lane going to be flown, average and peak power demands etc etc.

Then a new BIG factor for anyone is what charger/balancing setup are you running? Do yu have or are you willing to put up with multiple balancer taps/adaptors etc.

If you want to fly the newest, latest, greatest then your always going to have to pay the extra premium for that privelege.

I see a degree of "value" in all of them depending on the users needs/wants. Its hard to pick a "best" because thats going to be different for every application and user.

Still, I think this recent trend towards hi C packs is not the best possible way to go. Weight is very very hi on my list of deciding factors when I choose packs. That makes those Hyperion cells look pretty good to me.

There is one good thing about all the new hi C packs tho - its driveing the cost of the 12-15C packs down even lower

I wish Commonsense would do some BIG packs in his 12C line.

Larry
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