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Old May 17, 2006, 03:38 AM
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delamar's Avatar
Adelaide, Australia
Joined Apr 2006
347 Posts
Help!
Just about to give up on helis. please fix my uncontrolable tail wag

Ive just installed separates into a night ranger 3d, here are my parts

night ranger 3d
gws 6ch rx
jr 8310 tx
15amp esc for main
8amp esc for tail
align/telebee/zoom HH gyro

My problem is, no matter what i do, the tail wags so bad that its uncontrolable. Its like there is no esc on the tail at all, either full on or full off, causing huge over corrections. I have the gyro in HH mode, because i figure thats easier to setup. I have tried to understand the rate mode and programing revo mix, but i couldnt work that out. So im just trying to get HH mode working first, so that i can fly this thing and not give up. Ive tried adjusting the gain on the gyro, if i go below 50% the tail motor just switches off to any rudder command, but if i go over 50% i get the huge tail wag over corrections.

I have the gyro mounted vertical with the stick facing forward, as i was told. Ive tried adjusting the travel adjustments in the TX with no difference.
Ive tried trim

the heli just goes back and forth back and forth on the floor.

If i give the tail motor a small amount of rudder, it does only spin the motor slowly, rising smoothly as i input more rudder. So i figure the ESC is doing its job.

Please help, i feel like ending the heli hobby dream.
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Old May 17, 2006, 05:30 AM
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sao_bilious's Avatar
UK, Beds
Joined Jan 2003
372 Posts
More info, what make is the Esc on the tail?
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Old May 17, 2006, 05:48 AM
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Rosella's Avatar
Adelaide, South Australia
Joined Mar 2004
413 Posts
I've seen those Night Rangers fly quite well so I won't pick on it yet, as I am not a fan of motored tails. But the best combination I have seen is a Castle Creations 10 amp ESC (with hard brake and fast start) and 401 for the tail. I have tried the Align/Zoom gyro and found it to slow for my belt drive micro. I prefer a GWS PG03 or go all the way and get a 401.
Have you flown at any of the indoor events in Adelaide? A few guys there might be able to sort it out. There is an idoor night tomorrow at 8.30pm, ETSA Park.
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Old May 17, 2006, 05:52 AM
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delamar's Avatar
Adelaide, Australia
Joined Apr 2006
347 Posts
I fly at the hub on sundays.

My night ranger 3d did fly ok with the original 4 in 1, but the 4 in 1 developed problems, so i went separates.

the ESC for main and tail is Blue arrow. cheap i know...
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Old May 17, 2006, 06:16 AM
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Rosella's Avatar
Adelaide, South Australia
Joined Mar 2004
413 Posts
Been trying to get there myself but the other side of town for me. Anyway reaction time and steps of an ESC seem to lack on cheapies, and put them on a slow gyro, problem gets worse. Only way to see is a process of elim. So change the ESC, if still no good, the gyro.(even borrow a PG03 if possible an change that first)
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Old May 17, 2006, 09:13 AM
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Joined Mar 2004
474 Posts
Be sure you have initialized the tail ESC (a very common oversight when switching to separates). Usually by moving the rudder stick all the way to the left. Sometimes it only appears that the tail ESC is doing its job when it is only the gyro that is sending the signal to the tail motor and not your TX rudder stick. Also disconnect the main motor and hold down the heli, then try the tail motor without the gyro to see if the tail ESC is working.
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Old May 17, 2006, 09:59 AM
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Michael Paxton's Avatar
Nashville TN.
Joined Mar 2006
2,555 Posts
I don't know how much you did for set up, but I thought I would add that you should set the heli up in standard mode first, get the tail in line....then switch to HH if you want. HH will give the tail all sorts of bad info if it is not set up straight first. I use a swivel stand (like a lazy susan) for my nitro cars, and strap the heli down to it and get it to stay straight with minimal gyro gain, after that, the gyro isn't fighting any mechanical settings in order to do it's job. Also, as I understand it, you should not use revo mix with HH. I read that on the King instructions, so I don't know how accurate it is. But it makes sense that the less you have going on programming wise, the easier it will be to set up and find probs. Hope this helps...M
PS...As always, unplug and replug batt between settings to initialize gyro.
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Old May 17, 2006, 11:25 AM
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patrick181's Avatar
USA, MO, St Charles
Joined Nov 2005
985 Posts
Is that the PP-8A esc you are using?
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Old May 17, 2006, 12:08 PM
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Mini-Dub's Avatar
Seattle, WA
Joined May 2006
693 Posts
You said "the heli just goes back and forth on the floor", so is your tail wag before you've even taken off? I believe the tail is supposed to get more locked in at a higher main rotor speed, so maybe try lifting it off real quick and see if it settles down? Just a thought.
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Old May 17, 2006, 12:31 PM
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Southern California
Joined Feb 2003
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Had the same problem on my Shogun V2 using the EF HH gyro and it turned out to be the reversing DIP switch on the gyro. It still controlled the same direction (thats why I didnt suspect it) but it needs to match the TX.
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Old May 17, 2006, 04:49 PM
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delamar's Avatar
Adelaide, Australia
Joined Apr 2006
347 Posts
Can someone explain how to set up the gyro in rate mode? Do i use revo mix? Im in the dark.
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Old May 17, 2006, 04:50 PM
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delamar's Avatar
Adelaide, Australia
Joined Apr 2006
347 Posts
Yes its a BA-PP-08 Blue Arrow
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Old May 18, 2006, 05:02 AM
Registered User
Rochester, Great Britain (UK)
Joined Oct 2004
287 Posts
I use the blue arrow pp-3c on my tail motor so the esc should be ok.

Is this your gyro?

This is why I said before use a servo to get used to the way the gyro works this way you can tell when you are in HH because the centre point will creep.

Rob
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Old May 18, 2006, 02:29 PM
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aaronredbaron's Avatar
United States, IL, Champaign
Joined Apr 2002
1,020 Posts
you have to use a speed control with very simple software/setup to work with the heading hold gyro. if you use a speed control that has auto calibrating...you will fight it and it will never work. you need to make sure the speed control you are using will not adjust itself to the throttle travel.the one I have used with success is the GWS 2 amp unit. I used one years ago on a hornet with a ducted fan tail with a gy 240 and a gws 12v motor, it worked very well, and held rock solid!
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Old May 22, 2006, 12:23 AM
It's Prime Time for Slime Time
b7gwap's Avatar
Joined May 2004
1,723 Posts
So if you've got an esc for the main motor, and an esc for the tail, how do both get power from the battery? Do you just make a Y-connection or would this blow something up? I'm trying to set up a CP2 on separates.
cheers
Austin
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