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Old May 17, 2006, 01:58 PM
Confirmed Chronic
screamin' eagle's Avatar
Pacific Palisades, CA
Joined Jul 2004
9,245 Posts
I'm speechless. The Bring Has Been Brung!
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Old May 17, 2006, 02:01 PM
Registered User
Chief High Horse's Avatar
Orange County, CA
Joined Oct 2004
3,509 Posts
Vic,

Like reed said charge what you have to don't worry about the price offending a potential customer. If you can't afford to stay in business at lower prices but continue to sell service at a loss you are only ripping yourself off.

The real problem seems to be a lack of character on the customer's part. In my business I don't hang any hopes on customer pricing inquiries, 90% of the time if they have to ask how much they should not be buying.

Dave
buyers are liers
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Old May 17, 2006, 02:11 PM
blah...
THUREN's Avatar
United States, OR, Bend
Joined Jun 2005
2,932 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by devilcries
i think it is a good deal for 150 but people shuold just buld theyr own stuf, it s alot beter

And if they spend the time to sand it round the cost would double...
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Old May 17, 2006, 02:11 PM
Slope elope
Cziltang Brone's Avatar
United States, CA, El Cerrito
Joined Nov 2004
497 Posts
I wouldn't dispute that what you're quoting is a fair price. A GOOD build is more labor intensive than many people think. However, I think it's a bit disingenuous to be considering goop drying time in your total time estimate. Yeah, 4 coats of thinned good might take a whole day to complete, but only perhaps an hour or two of labor.
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Old May 17, 2006, 02:12 PM
Yes, ALL your money...
winchdoc's Avatar
A hut in the woods in Oregon
Joined Jan 2003
2,521 Posts
Your best effort

I've built for other folks, and had other folks build for me. Usually there is some exchange of dead presidents involved to square everything up.

The very best deals in the glider game for me have been trading for one another's "best effort".
This takes the $$$ out of the equation. Just recently, I traded some custom machined wingeron hardware for various items, including bagged wings, custom layup fuselages, that sort of thing. To me, these are the most rewarding kinds of transactions.

The rare unobtainium Kestrel was the result of such a collaboration, Different people contributed their best efforts to create a project that excedded the sum of it's parts.

Doc
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Old May 17, 2006, 02:57 PM
more casual than stylish....
slopemeno's Avatar
Joined Jan 2003
6,949 Posts
Devilcries- Is this you? Is this me John Wayne?


Seriously- I've scored some amazing deals buying clean used planes with the gear in them. The "fleet reduction" seem like a great time if youre the one buying. Foamies are such a labor intensive, sticky mess to build... Try doing 3m 77 in an apartment. My hat is off to the guys building foam for pay.

BTW I have a list at home of the "signs of a non-buyer" and asking how much is it is one of the first things mentioned. I dealt with this constantly in when I was an airsmith and it gets old really fast. Learn who the problem customer is early and weed them out.
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Old May 17, 2006, 04:13 PM
PGR
Low AltiDude
PGR's Avatar
United States, CA, Costa Mesa
Joined Jun 2004
7,976 Posts
I've never officially been in the business of building planes but I did get stuck with building 6 Raiders for others. That experience has led me to believe that the only way to make any money building (unless you have an exceptionally special product) is to batch-build several at once.

I started my little endeavor by building my own followed by 2 more for others. These were built one after another. Then I built 4 at the same time and it only took about 25% more time than it took to build 1.

Pete
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Old May 17, 2006, 04:29 PM
Slope elope
Cziltang Brone's Avatar
United States, CA, El Cerrito
Joined Nov 2004
497 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by slopemeno
BTW I have a list at home of the "signs of a non-buyer" and asking how much is it is one of the first things mentioned. I dealt with this constantly in when I was an airsmith and it gets old really fast. Learn who the problem customer is early and weed them out.

Very good points, but I really don't get this one. Asking how much it is is one of the signs of a "problem customer"?
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Old May 17, 2006, 04:56 PM
more casual than stylish....
slopemeno's Avatar
Joined Jan 2003
6,949 Posts
I'll find the list when I get home. Pretty interesting reading if youre in business, actually. Essentially its a way of deciding who gets youre attention in a business environment. The bottom line of business is you have to get paid first, so who do you want to spend your time on? The purpose of the list was to help people segregate tire kickers -vs- motivated purchasers.
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Old May 17, 2006, 04:58 PM
Yes, ALL your money...
winchdoc's Avatar
A hut in the woods in Oregon
Joined Jan 2003
2,521 Posts
A much wiser (than I) man once told me that building for others is like circling in sink...
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Old May 17, 2006, 05:15 PM
Suspended Account
devilcries's Avatar
Rhode Island
Joined May 2006
24 Posts
ya its me. they closed my account but i made a new 1. wats a kestral? sound s cool. My (female) friend made a this cool fiberglass plane that looks like my plane that has those twisty wings./

Twisty wing is wingeron, rite?
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Old May 17, 2006, 09:12 PM
antipodean recalcitrant
AntonL's Avatar
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Joined Feb 2004
3,171 Posts
Sadly, this DC is an impostor...
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Old May 18, 2006, 11:38 AM
The Predator
The Predator's Avatar
Golden, Colorado
Joined Dec 2004
3,565 Posts
I am able to charge somewhat less because the molded foam cores are MUCH FASTER AND EASIER to build-up. Gear cutouts are GREAT!!! Those are the only builds I am doing now, I'm spoiled. One coat of thinned goop on a molded core with out pores and that thing takes covering GREAT and really fast application after some experience. Then two more quick Goopings on the LE and she's ready to RUMBLE!
I have dealt with the whiners PLENTY but, in the end, I tell them, man, you should really build you own kit since it's SOO EASY. It comes out half as good and takes'em them a week! I can do two NICE builds in a 10 hr. day with the molded foam. I tell you, I just love POUNDING the crap out of that whinner and his SLOW wing . Then I have a new more appreciative customer.
I think the molded foamies will eventially be the future of volume production foamies. The foam cutters will ALWAYS be indispensible for design and testing and therefore a tad ahead in performance but, WAY to much work for the masses if they have such an easy, TOUGH, fast alternative.
As this hobby grows it will be much less intimidating to invest in foam molds as the market will be stronger/larger/more$$$. Gee, I wonder what I'll be doing next?
VV try breaking down the costs to the customer and HOPEFULLY they'll realize that your labor portion of the bill is not ALL THAT MUCH! especailly per hour. I do not think you can really charge for drying time though. I usually prep the elevons and precut the covering while I wait for the goop to dry. I have a process with the molded foam where I am never idle.
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