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Old May 15, 2006, 10:44 AM
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I have previously owned three of these things. I got my first one back about five years ago when I first started flying R/C and had a lot of fun with them. My first ones were all the same, I used the stock IPS motor and a 7 cell Nimh 720 mah (I think, been a while) and it would fly for about a half hour. That was before I even knew what a brushless motor and a lipo battery were. Now I find myself in Afghanistan as a UAV pilot. I had my wife pick me up another one of these kits at my LHS and a Spektrum receiver for the Tx I already have on hand and I ordered some other stuff from Aircraft World in Japan. The AW order got here in ten days. Those guys always amaze me, anyway.....I got the Feigao 4100kv motor on a 7.00:1 gearbox and some 9x7 GWS props. I ordered two 700mah 3 cell Etecs also.

I haven't flown her yet. We had a bit of an incident last week and one of the guys here attached glow sticks to a 3 channel glider and was flying it at night while there were a bunch of Blachkawks and Apaches in the pattern. That did not go over well so we are on hold from flying anything but I really hope to be able to fly it tomorrow.

I used some really thin CF rods to strengthen the wings, the last time I tied flying wires with kevlar fishing line and it worked well, but CF is what I have on hand here. It actually came out kinda noseheavy. I mounted my lipo at the back of the front seat area to make it balance at 40mm back. But wow does that Feigao have some power with the 3 cell. It is easily over 1:1 power/weight. I know I won't be using all that but nice to know it is there. I have been a 3D nut since I started flying but these things are quite relaxing and fun to fly. Touch and go's are really fun to do.

We are at 4400 ft. MSL here and the air is quite thin plus with the heat we are getting I think I need more than stock power. It has been over 110 degrees daily here lately and approaching 120 degrees somedays but density altitude is HIGH let me tell you.

Anyways, I've been looking this thread over and it is simply amazing how popular this little plane has become. And it has to be when a guy who has never owned anything other than a 3D or IMAC plane since his trainer gets one again......AGAIN......fourth one!

I will try and post a short flight report IF I ever get to fly it. Man I hate politics, but the guys flying that glider (on my team no less) were quite stupid.

I am gonna try to post a pic if my bandwidth holds up.

Brad
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Old May 15, 2006, 11:32 AM
Forever WTTM Pilot #7
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Daytona Beach, Florida, United States
Joined Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorance66
I have previously owned three of these things. I got my first one back about five years ago when I first started flying R/C and had a lot of fun with them. My first ones were all the same, I used the stock IPS motor and a 7 cell Nimh 720 mah (I think, been a while) and it would fly for about a half hour. That was before I even knew what a brushless motor and a lipo battery were. Now I find myself in Afghanistan as a UAV pilot. I had my wife pick me up another one of these kits at my LHS and a Spektrum receiver for the Tx I already have on hand and I ordered some other stuff from Aircraft World in Japan. The AW order got here in ten days. Those guys always amaze me, anyway.....I got the Feigao 4100kv motor on a 7.00:1 gearbox and some 9x7 GWS props. I ordered two 700mah 3 cell Etecs also.

I haven't flown her yet. We had a bit of an incident last week and one of the guys here attached glow sticks to a 3 channel glider and was flying it at night while there were a bunch of Blachkawks and Apaches in the pattern. That did not go over well so we are on hold from flying anything but I really hope to be able to fly it tomorrow.

I used some really thin CF rods to strengthen the wings, the last time I tied flying wires with kevlar fishing line and it worked well, but CF is what I have on hand here. It actually came out kinda noseheavy. I mounted my lipo at the back of the front seat area to make it balance at 40mm back. But wow does that Feigao have some power with the 3 cell. It is easily over 1:1 power/weight. I know I won't be using all that but nice to know it is there. I have been a 3D nut since I started flying but these things are quite relaxing and fun to fly. Touch and go's are really fun to do.

We are at 4400 ft. MSL here and the air is quite thin plus with the heat we are getting I think I need more than stock power. It has been over 110 degrees daily here lately and approaching 120 degrees somedays but density altitude is HIGH let me tell you.

Anyways, I've been looking this thread over and it is simply amazing how popular this little plane has become. And it has to be when a guy who has never owned anything other than a 3D or IMAC plane since his trainer gets one again......AGAIN......fourth one!

I will try and post a short flight report IF I ever get to fly it. Man I hate politics, but the guys flying that glider (on my team no less) were quite stupid.

I am gonna try to post a pic if my bandwidth holds up.

Brad
Brad,

Absolutely amazing! I'm surprised your glider friend didn't get his plane turned into swiss cheese! Stay in touch with us.... and be careful over there!
You make us all proud to be Americans.... and it is so cool that you can fly R/C there. I'm the guy with the "disabled" moth which has never flown higher that 25 ft over 2 years and about 100 flights! I'm going to leave it as it is.....it's becoming a legend. But, I did get a lens brushless for the white pico moth I'm going to build. This motor is not made any longer, but "1987tc" sold me one of his (Wes).

Wes, I think I forgot to tell you I got the motor.... it looks brand new. Thanks, buddy!

Brad, are you anywhere near where that DHL jet liner took a missile through the wing and landed successfully by steering with the engines? I don't know how that thing stayed together, but the crew made one hell of a landing, and didn't tear the airplane up!

Buzz
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Old May 15, 2006, 06:24 PM
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Tiger Moth in the air--at last

First of all, best of luck to Brad and his flying endeavors. I hope you can continue to enjoy flying and that it will provide relaxation from a dangerous and stressful job. Be sure to use the UAV to keep you out of harm's way.

I guess I am about as far away from that sort of life as you can get, living here on the island of Singapore, where, because some videos of our school were found in a cave in Afghanistan, we now have Gurkas, the elite Nepalese soldiers, guarding our school. As I fly at 6 in the morning, I must have one of the most secure flying sites in the world!

Well, I finally flew the TM successfully this morning, and there was nothing to it--flew just like my little three channel indoor planes. But what a time-first flight the battery was too far back and hindered the rudder and it flew into the goal trashing the wings, on the second flight the battery pitched foward and it did a hard nose dive, the third attempt I had the elevator servo reversed from flying my IFO and it nose-dived, and on the fourth attempt the previous misadventures had loosened the servos, which came unglued in mid-air, and the TM flew straight into a second goal, trashing the wings. I have scored nearly as many goals as West Ham!

I was dreading trying it again, but taped and glued the servos as several of you suggested, went out this morning and---surprise--I can actually fly, going through two flight packs without incident.

This is a pretty and fun plane to fly, but I realize that I probably chose poorly when I thought I would be using my Verbatim 5 in1 with it--I don't think it will get the height.

Anway, just wanted a shout out and safe wishes for Brad, and my thanks to the rest of you for telling me to keep with it until I overcame all my dumb mistakes.

Dale in Singapore
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Old May 15, 2006, 06:45 PM
Been There! Done That!
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Eugene, Oregon, United States
Joined Sep 2001
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Hey guys check out post #478 at the end of http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...&page=10&pp=50
I thought I was a builder but bow to a master!
boomer
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Old May 16, 2006, 12:47 AM
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United States, WA, Bonney Lake
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179 Posts
Moth Crashed--Again!

My neighbor, an air traffic controller, was asking how fast my Pico Moth could get in the air. So I decided to try holding full up elevator then giving her full throttle from my driveway, standing about 5 feet in front of the garage doors, plane facing the street and into the wind, with freshly charged 450mAh 3 cell lipo. Well, she took off in about 2 feet, went straight up, and before I could get her leveled out she caught the wind, clipped a tree branch, hit the corner of a gable, and ended up inverted in the gutter. Well, at least the motor and prop were in the gutter--the rest of the plane was kind of swaying back and forth over the edge. Ladder time. Here's the carnage. Good news is she's almost back together already. I'm liking the foam safe super glue better since I started using a little zip kicker on it.
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Old May 16, 2006, 03:01 AM
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Thank you all for the kind comments and it is nice to hear the patriotism but I am afraid I am not deserving of nearly the credit the real military guys get. I am a civilian contractor so I am lucky and never have to leave the sanctuary of my base.

It looks as if I will get to fly it today but I will have to wait until late afternoon. The way the heat accelerates up here, we end up with a lot of wind and turbulence. I have seen dust devils that go over 100 feet in the air and possibly more, no exaggeration. I will post a pic of one, not the largest one but a good one.

Yeah Buzz, I am afraid I am all too familiar with the 25 ft. TM. Hehehe. I must admit I did not read this entire thread, imagine how long that would take, but I read a lot of it and yes your problem is very strange. My only guess is that it may be nose heavy. I'm sure you have experimented with CG but if not by some chance, try moving the CG back a bit. Oh, and I do recall the story of the airliner you mentioned but I can't recall which country that happened in much less the town. I am in a place called Tarin Kowt. We are maybe 60 miles or so north of Kandahar. I assure you it did not happen here as the C130's barely have enough room to land and the runway is dirt, but it could have happened at one of the larger cities.

Brad
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Old May 16, 2006, 10:36 AM
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Rock Hill, SC
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Originally Posted by burntstringflier
..The foam along side the landing gear really is thin! Think I'll reinforce the outside with some glass cloth and glue.
For a quick, simple, yet not all that esthetic looking repair of the fuselage in the landing gear area, you might try what I did. I noticed cracks appearing in the foam, due to the landing gear splaying out on less then delicate landings. So I simply "patched" the immediate area with some thin balsa sheeting and foam safe CA. Used a Sharpie to color the balsa patch, but the color has faded. Best way to prevent fuselage breaking in this area is to use the CF tube modification for landing gear, courtesy of Basket Case.

RD
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Old May 16, 2006, 10:56 AM
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she flies!

I finally got to fly the TM today! What a relief after staring at it on the workbench for the past three days just sitting there.

It was REALLY windy most of the day but when the sun disappeared behind the mountain the wind dissipated to nearly zero. Problem was I didn't have much light left to fly by but I managed to get about 45 minutes of fun in. One battery pack lasted about a half hour (Etec 700mah 3S) and I never saw the end of the other one. This one flies better than any of the ones I have had in the past due to the brushless motor and lipo. Now, with all that power, stall turns/wingovers are very possible and about all I did with the second battery. I did quite a bit of figure eights in the smallest area possible (don't try this without beefing up the wings though) and several touch and go's. I even tried to hover it although I put the rudder servo on the aileron channel and I just can't make myself function in a hover like that. I kept hitting the left stick and of course nothing happens. I might later put the rudder on the rudder channel and see what happens, just because I want to know if I can torque roll it

I got a couple more pics while I had it outside on our taxiway which turned out really good. I am going to attach those.

Brad
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Old May 16, 2006, 11:18 AM
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Daytona Beach, Florida, United States
Joined Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorance66
Thank you all for the kind comments and it is nice to hear the patriotism but I am afraid I am not deserving of nearly the credit the real military guys get. I am a civilian contractor so I am lucky and never have to leave the sanctuary of my base.

It looks as if I will get to fly it today but I will have to wait until late afternoon. The way the heat accelerates up here, we end up with a lot of wind and turbulence. I have seen dust devils that go over 100 feet in the air and possibly more, no exaggeration. I will post a pic of one, not the largest one but a good one.

Yeah Buzz, I am afraid I am all too familiar with the 25 ft. TM. Hehehe. I must admit I did not read this entire thread, imagine how long that would take, but I read a lot of it and yes your problem is very strange. My only guess is that it may be nose heavy. I'm sure you have experimented with CG but if not by some chance, try moving the CG back a bit. Oh, and I do recall the story of the airliner you mentioned but I can't recall which country that happened in much less the town. I am in a place called Tarin Kowt. We are maybe 60 miles or so north of Kandahar. I assure you it did not happen here as the C130's barely have enough room to land and the runway is dirt, but it could have happened at one of the larger cities.

Brad
Hi Brad,

No matter what you're doing over there.... it is still helping us and the people in Afghanistan. I cannot believe my moth is known world wide now!
Believe me, I've done everything imaginable and I believe the problem is just too much weight and not enough power. I'm never going to try to make it fly higher.... then nobody will have anything to make fun of.... and I don't want to ruin everyone's fun! Wes, (1987tc) got me a lens motor and I'll put that in my white moth when it gets to the building table. I mean, really....how many guys are this well known for a plane that UNDER performs!
LOL! It still flies great, but I guess it was just born to be a crop duster.

That plane I mentioned was a DHL cargo 747. It took a missile through the wing and knocked out ALL of the navigation hydraulics. The pilots steered it to an airport somewhere in Afghanistan using only the motors to make it turn. No elevators, rudder.....nothing. They made a beautiful landing, although they missed the paved runway and landed in the dirt, gear down! I don't know how they got the gear down...... but it was a great landing. DHL is an express package carrier, like UPS. I have the entiire landing saved, but it is a Power Point file. If you have power point, let me know and I'll send it to you. That offer goes out to others who might want to see it too. I'll guarantee you, that cockpit was nothing but puckers!

Take care...

Buzz
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Old May 16, 2006, 01:22 PM
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Rock Hill, SC
Joined Oct 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorance66
I finally got to fly the TM today! Brad
Congrats on your "new" Moth. Looks really nice, interesting use of the CF rods. Good pictures also.

Ditto on what Buzz had to say about your involvement in Afganistan. Have you considered a possible Stealth Moth??

RD
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Old May 16, 2006, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz
I cannot believe my moth is known world wide now!
Well, um.....that's the price of fame!

Quote:
I'm never going to try to make it fly higher.... then nobody will have anything to make fun of.... and I don't want to ruin everyone's fun!
Dang, I'll be out of business if you do that!

Quote:
....got me a lens motor and I'll put that in my white moth when it gets to the building table.
And if she peaks out at 17-1/2 feet, what then???

RD
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Old May 16, 2006, 06:29 PM
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bent drive shaft?

Now that I am flying rather than crashing the TM, I got brave. Got a little too low on a turn, caught the wing, and the one side of the prop snapped. When I removed the cowling and replaced the blades (I got good at that with the IFO) I noticed there was a noticeable bend in the propeller shaft that I was not able to straighten out using the pliers. Since I had four bad crashes when setting the TM up, I suspect it came from flying into a wall rather than this little wing tip tumble from 6 inches. I also noticed that there is virtually no wobble where the propeller attaches. Would you suggest I put on the prop and continue to fly (I am assuming there won't be a problem) or should I bite the bullet, take the motor out, and replace the shaft. I am guessing many of you have already encountered this issue, and I would appreciate your feedback. Thanks
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Old May 16, 2006, 06:59 PM
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Just a perfect Sunday (05-14-2006) morning !! Not even a hint of wind!!

I will need to change out the landing gear wire and/or wheels to the GWS white plastic with rubber insert as it was difficult to take off because of the bounch effect

However, once in the air this little 9 1/8 oz. fully loaded GWS Pico TIGER MOTH flew with such scale manners that I could bring her in super close to Gerry as he took several nice in-flight pictures and I was able to thread the model inbetween us as it passed by at least 2 MPH speed!

This model takes the Award for being super slow!

As much as I like super fast Sport Models, this Pico Tiger Moth is a keeper with the IPS power system and swinging the GWS "Slow Flyer" 9 X 7 propeller using the Kokam 1025mAH, 2-Cell, 7.4 Volt, 8C, Li-POLYs. I used the GWS Pico Standard servos.

The Charger got done with the GWS Pico TIGER MOTH's Li-POLY (Kokam 1025mAH 2-cell) and it read 163mAH placed back and 8.36 Volts from 7.89 Volts This little IPS motor did not take anything out!!!

It looked great in the air, just a wonderful day of "Close-to-Home" Flying!
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Old May 16, 2006, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssling
I also noticed that there is virtually no wobble where the propeller attaches. Would you suggest I put on the prop and continue to fly (I am assuming there won't be a problem) or should I bite the bullet, take the motor out, and replace the shaft. I am guessing many of you have already encountered this issue, and I would appreciate your feedback. Thanks
If there's no Wobble then, I would not worry about it as this power system will not be turning (RPMs @ Prop) enough to vibrate the model's struts lose. As long as there's no evidence of vibration then, go ahead and fly otherwise, take the motor out from gearbox and get yourself a new shaft....

http://www.aeromicro.com/Catalog/gws...ft_1309334.htm
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Old May 16, 2006, 08:42 PM
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And straightening the shaft once it is out of the gear box using a small vice is easier than when it is in the gear box. With the shaft not perfectly straight the gears make more noise and the battery does not last quite as long.

I did a lot of shaft fixing until I made the motor stick very easy to replace and totaly break away.
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