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Old Aug 27, 2008, 12:02 AM
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Believe me guys, I love gearboxes and experimenting with this motor and that pinion puller etc.....etc......

However, my fat Gorilla hands have paid me a lesson to go with a fantastic Brushless motor, the HIMAX HC2212-1180 direct drive Outrunner!

I bought this Himax motor on eBay brand new in it's plastic case for a very good deal and have saved me tons of work and this particular Kv allows my GWS pico "TIGER" Moth to fly with just 2-Cell, Li-POLYs and swinging the GWS Slow Flyer 8 X 6 propeller with very good results.

I do realize that using the STOCK GWS gearbox and a Brushless is symbolic to keep the GWS STOCK setup as a novelty and my buddy tried it with a Fieago Brushless Inrunner such that he got the higher Kv and that Plastic GWS Gearbox melted in mid-flight due to the heat build up of the Inrunner Brushless motor. One has to realize that as higher and higher Kv you need more and more reduction gearing on the gearbox pinion-to-spur gear combination ratio. But, experience has taught me that even if you do increase the gearbox ratio, the motor RPMs are increased and the 12mm brushless Inrunners build-up heat very quickly such that your effective and useful operational upper Motor RPM limit is significantly reduced.

This is the reason going Outrunner and never looked back.

But, hey what do I know?
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Old Aug 27, 2008, 04:46 AM
Captain Carnage says......
AirWarriorBelgy's Avatar
Seminole (St Pete.), Florida/ Seminole Crash Fest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guapoman2000
Believe me guys, I love gearboxes and experimenting with this motor and that pinion puller etc.....etc......

However, my fat Gorilla hands have paid me a lesson to go with a fantastic Brushless motor, the HIMAX HC2212-1180 direct drive Outrunner!

I bought this Himax motor on eBay brand new in it's plastic case for a very good deal and have saved me tons of work and this particular Kv allows my GWS pico "TIGER" Moth to fly with just 2-Cell, Li-POLYs and swinging the GWS Slow Flyer 8 X 6 propeller with very good results.

I do realize that using the STOCK GWS gearbox and a Brushless is symbolic to keep the GWS STOCK setup as a novelty and my buddy tried it with a Fieago Brushless Inrunner such that he got the higher Kv and that Plastic GWS Gearbox melted in mid-flight due to the heat build up of the Inrunner Brushless motor. One has to realize that as higher and higher Kv you need more and more reduction gearing on the gearbox pinion-to-spur gear combination ratio. But, experience has taught me that even if you do increase the gearbox ratio, the motor RPMs are increased and the 12mm brushless Inrunners build-up heat very quickly such that your effective and useful operational upper Motor RPM limit is significantly reduced.

This is the reason going Outrunner and never looked back.

But, hey what do I know?

I concur..if your burning up motors , and melting gearboxes, you definately have something, well ...not quite right and should reconsider your set up.

I used the inrunner for ease of configuration and installation, more than any other reason

I did use Park Flyer 400 inrunners on GWS eps300 GB's and exploded the 50 watt gb's with some regularity, and have to admit that except for my E-Starter, TM and EDF's use outrunners exclusively on the rest of my squadron as well.

Chuck
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Old Aug 27, 2008, 07:59 AM
Clear for Take-Off!!!
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Many Thanks Lancer!!! Great information. Thank You for going through the trouble of measurement.
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Old Aug 27, 2008, 08:33 AM
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Many Thanks Lancer!!! Great information. Thank You for going through the trouble of measurement.
Glad I could help! I'm trying to get back to work on my new Pico, and thinking about, & talking about them helps me, too.
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Old Aug 27, 2008, 08:53 AM
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Doug

I experimented with the brushed drives several years ago and was using 8 cell nimh in my moth with the C drive. Then about 5 years ago, I switched to lipos. The C drive and 10x8 prop seemed to work just fine for me.

So now I have a 2712 blue wonder motor that is advertised at 1200 kv. I prefer using two cell packs and larger props, that is why I like the lower kv. I tried it last night with an 8 x 3.8 APC and it was fine. Might try a 9 x 3.8 for comparison.

Getting geared up to build a new moth. Working on color schemes.
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Old Aug 27, 2008, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guapoman2000
...experience has taught me that even if you do increase the gearbox ratio, the motor RPMs are increased and the 12mm brushless Inrunners build-up heat very quickly such that your effective and useful operational upper Motor RPM limit is significantly reduced.
Good point. I had heard the higher KV Feigao 12mm B/L motors can turn into soldering irons on 3S Lipo's , even with the "C" or lower gearing. As Chuck has stated, the ease of installation and configuration of a 12mm B/L motor and GWS gearbox is more of a convenience issue. The availability and variety of outrunners that will work on the PTM makes them, in the long run, a better choice. As a traditionalist, I'm still holding out! This will not necessarily apply to the pending TM #2.

Anyone know of a good outrunner for the Ember???

RD
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Old Aug 27, 2008, 05:46 PM
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Just some more pics on a rainy day
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Old Aug 27, 2008, 08:09 PM
did a reversed Immelman..once.
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'Moth motors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sipprell
Anyone know of a good outrunner for the Ember??? RD
Ember.?I think this would be a great selection for a Pico TM.It's light....1400kv,swings decent sized prop on 2 cells.I'm setting up one now for my next 'Moth..

http://www.lightflightrc.com/HTML/pr...SP_2204-19.htm
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Old Aug 27, 2008, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYPILEIT
I think this would be a great selection for a Pico TM.It's light....1400kv,swings decent sized prop on 2 cells.I'm setting up one now for my next 'Moth..
http://www.lightflightrc.com/HTML/pr...SP_2204-19.htm
Looks interesting. Keep us posted.

RD
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Old Aug 28, 2008, 12:45 PM
If it's R/C, it's all good.
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So, to relax a bit and step away from my larger planes and my land, sea R/Cs I'm going to get a Pico Tiger Moth.

I've tried to read as many of the threads and search as much as I can, but the search feature seems to be failing me on specific things.

I have the small receiver for one of my radios already, I have two servos picked out and my ESC also, those were easy to find. The battery, not so much. I've searched and searched, but can only find thinner packs on Tower's site that seem to fit the size required and don't cost $30-50 each.

Seeing as I have chargers that can handle anything, I'm deciding whether to go with Lipo or Nimh battery packs.

I don't want speed, this plane won't be heavily modded, run with stock motor and prop for just lazy flying in a school yard. Maybe change the motor if it burns up often eventually.

You guys think any of these packs will work fine? What do you recommend or where would you buy packs or cells to make a pack if you dislike these?

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXTSR6&P=0

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXGBL8&P=0

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXRVN9&P=0
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Old Aug 28, 2008, 12:53 PM
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hpiguy

Those would work, but the lipos I like are the 500, 700, or 800 ma size--longer flights. Check out commonsenserc.com and headsuprc.com
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Old Aug 28, 2008, 12:58 PM
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I'll echo Pat... Build it light, use the stock motor, a couple of sub-micro servos, a lightweight esc, and batteries in the 500-800 mAh 2s Li-Po range, and that thing will float around all day at under half throttle. Remember, with a plane like the Pico Moth, weight is your enemy.

Chuck
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Old Aug 28, 2008, 01:04 PM
If it's R/C, it's all good.
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THANKS! Those sites have reasonable prices on higher capacity Lipos.

I think nano servos will be fine yes? Or do they need to be even smaller? Or bigger?
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Old Aug 28, 2008, 01:05 PM
Been There! Done That!
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Eugene, Oregon, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sipprell
Anyone know of a good outrunner for the Ember???

RD
Doug,
I've been looking at this one......
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=7230
boomer
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Old Aug 28, 2008, 01:22 PM
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hpi guy

I use GWS 5-6 gram servos or Hitech HS-50s in my moths.
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