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Old Aug 24, 2008, 07:13 PM
Clear for Take-Off!!!
Dexter, Michigan USA
Joined Nov 2003
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OK, I am struggling with the taping of the top wing. Can anyone explain how they put the tap on the joints and have it fuctional as well as look good? I have this same problem with my Slow Stick as well.
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Old Aug 24, 2008, 07:52 PM
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Zero3803's Avatar
Kennesaw, Georgia
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helipilot
OK, I am struggling with the taping of the top wing. Can anyone explain how they put the tap on the joints and have it fuctional as well as look good? I have this same problem with my Slow Stick as well.
I skipped the tape completely. I cut 1 inch wide by 2-3 inch long pieces of plastic leftover from slicing out the bottom wing cover piece. I then layed the wing down and elevated the sides on some cd cases to the proper height and epoxied the plastic strips over the joint area. I did the same on the bottom wing only I used the supplied plastic joint cover.

You can see in my included picture the plastic strips holding the angle. Hope this helps.
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Old Aug 24, 2008, 08:15 PM
did a reversed Immelman..once.
SKYPILEIT's Avatar
Novi, Michigan
Joined Nov 2002
2,254 Posts
IPS gear setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jugjock
is anyone aware of a post that describes how to remove the small metal gear from a brushed GWS IPS motor shaft and how to press it onto a Feigao replacement motor? I thought I'd better ask for help before immediately reaching for the hammer and chisel.
Jug,
working with those tiny gears & fragile 1.5mm shafts can be a chore.It's real easy to bend or break the shaft,which would render the motor inoperable,I guess we should confirm the kv rating of your Feigao motor,most are 4100kv...so I would recommend ordering one of these
http://www.allerc.com/product_info.p...oducts_id=1416
to install it on your Feigao.I have used a numbered or metric dia. drill to make the new pinion a 'light press fit',then apply a drop of green Loctite,line up the gear mesh and then let it dry/cure for 24 hours.Gearboxes are a bit more work but you'll have a new thrusty setup,much more efficient than the brushed IPS.
Maybe Doug S. can add a few pointers,I know he likes his 'Moth with geared IPS brushless motor.
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Old Aug 24, 2008, 08:53 PM
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Angelo's Avatar
Chicago, IL
Joined Nov 1999
2,081 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Daily
Here are the details on my pink foam (or blue foam--a bit heavier) floats.
Thanks for the info, this will help a lot with my float installation.
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Old Aug 24, 2008, 09:51 PM
Captain Carnage says......
AirWarriorBelgy's Avatar
Seminole (St Pete.), Florida/ Seminole Crash Fest
Joined Jun 2002
5,329 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jugjock
Maybe I'm not using the right search terms... but is anyone aware of a post that describes how to remove the small metal gear from a brushed GWS IPS motor shaft and how to press it onto a Feigao replacement motor? I thought I'd better ask for help before immediately reaching for the hammer and chisel.

Pat, that sure is some fine looking work on your Moth!
Hi Chris

Let me save you a little trouble...Even with a gear puller the whole on the olde pinion becomes enlarged enough to not fit snugly for very long on a new shaft, I have done this several times and even with heavy doses of loctite have had the pinion slip off once the motor and shaft become very hot.

Steel and Brass have different expansion and contraction rates this asdds fuel to the fire as well

but ...you can buy the GWS pinion pullers at Balsa Products you can also buy new pinion gears there (14 tooth pinion for an "A" gearbox)

if you get just the pinion, you'll need a smooth mouth vice to press it on...this part is the easy part


Pinions for "A" gear - IPS Drive

Gear Pullers and spare pins

Chuck

ps they have loctite too..and you will still need it
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Old Aug 24, 2008, 11:28 PM
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Arvada, Colorado
Joined May 2004
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Pat Daily, Skypileit, & AirWarriorBelgy - many thanks to you guys for providing immediate guidance on removing and installing gears on the GWS IPS and Feigao motor shafts. I've got my orders placed for the gear pullers, gears, gear box, and Loctite; and already wired up the Feigao motor and a BP 10A ESC.

Neither the ESC nor the Feigao indicate polarity on their lead wires. So, I figured I had a fifty-fifty chance of correctly soldering the three-wire servo connectors I'm using for the motor-ESC connection. Perhaps a good omen; the motor turned in the right direction (See Photo #07).

During the first two flights the little Moth scuffed up her lower wing leading edge tips. To reduce future damage in this area I cut two "boomerang" shaped pieces of plastic from the scrap strut material and epoxied them to the lower wing tips (See Photos #05 & 06). Use some medium grade sandpaper to scuff up the side of the bar that you glue to the wing.
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Old Aug 25, 2008, 02:36 AM
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Zero3803's Avatar
Kennesaw, Georgia
Joined Jul 2007
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Anyone have any idea of the lifespan I would get on the stock ips motor A gearing (5.86:1) running on a 2s 500mah lipo w/ either a 9x7 or a 10x4.7 prop? I'm setting up a moth for a friend to fly and am planning on initially using the stock ips as mentioned on a 2s lipo. The replacement motors will run me about $11, whereas setting up a brushless system will be ~50-60. I don't mind setting it up bl once this motor goes, just curious what kind of life I can expect from the little guy.

I'm also not really sure what flight times I'd be looking at on the 500 mah pack. I bought the ips heatsink for $0.50, and wouldn't really plan on going over ~10 minutes per flight regardless of ability for the battery to do so.

Thanks in advance!

-Zero
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Old Aug 25, 2008, 06:42 AM
Clear for Take-Off!!!
Dexter, Michigan USA
Joined Nov 2003
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Thanks Zero! Great idea.
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Old Aug 25, 2008, 09:00 AM
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Joined Jun 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero3803
Anyone have any idea of the lifespan I would get on the stock ips motor A gearing (5.86:1) running on a 2s 500mah lipo w/ either a 9x7 or a 10x4.7 prop? I'm setting up a moth for a friend to fly and am planning on initially using the stock ips as mentioned on a 2s lipo. The replacement motors will run me about $11, whereas setting up a brushless system will be ~50-60. I don't mind setting it up bl once this motor goes, just curious what kind of life I can expect from the little guy.

I'm also not really sure what flight times I'd be looking at on the 500 mah pack. I bought the ips heatsink for $0.50, and wouldn't really plan on going over ~10 minutes per flight regardless of ability for the battery to do so.

Thanks in advance!

-Zero
Our 2 went about 10 hours, total. That is quite a lot of flying time, for a Pico TM. Most of that time was spent at a little over 1/2 throttle, cruising on a 1850mAh, Li-ion, 2-cell pack. My longest flight was about 1.5 hours. (The gas guys can't start engines 'til 9:00, and we got to the field very early, when it is nice & calm).
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Old Aug 25, 2008, 09:18 AM
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Pat Daily's Avatar
United States, VA, Chesterfield
Joined Mar 2001
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Zero

My most recent TM with a brushed motor was operational for about 40 hours or so. I have also had some burn out much quicker--like a couple of hours. There is a real charm to the IPS gearbox and motor system in the TM.

I have two moths on brushless and they fly forever too and no engine cut out. They do have a bit more power--which kind of negates the charm factor--but still a lot of fun.

I would fly my moth with 1200x 2 lipos and get flight times approaching 1 hour, so 500 ma ought to give you good long times. Lately I like 800ma commonsenserc packs--saves some weight and still very long flight times--I often sit in a folding chair, drink a beer and watch the TM cruising in slowly climbing circles late in the evenings. Now that is flying!

On several occasions, I would fly two planes (different channels) in formation with each other. Set one up for circles, fly the other. Now that is a hoot!
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Old Aug 25, 2008, 10:41 AM
Planes, Guitars and Cigars
Steve_A_Reno's Avatar
Joined May 2002
3,171 Posts
Zero,

I think $60 for a brusless sytem is a bit high. My hexTronik 24gram Brushless Outrunner 1300kv cost 8.99 from HC and my TP 12 amp esc was also less than $10.00. I could not find prices for a brushed combo for less than this.
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Old Aug 25, 2008, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero3803
I'm also not really sure what flight times I'd be looking at on the 500 mah pack. I bought the ips heatsink for $0.50, and wouldn't really plan on going over ~10 minutes per flight regardless of ability for the battery to do so.
Hi Zero,

I run the little gearbox and brushed motor that comes in the kit without a heat sink as the motor always comes down relatively cool with my lazy style of flying.

Using a little Castle Creations Pixie 7P brushed ESC and a ThunderPower 2s 480 mAh Li-Po, my lightweight (no modifications) 6.35 ounce Moth flies longer than I care to keep my head turned up. I forget the exact flight times right now. It's probably in an earlier post of mine somewhere, and I don't want to take a chance on giving the wrong flight times.

But it's certainly longer than 10 minutes...

Chuck (who can't bear to go brushless with his Pico Moth)
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Old Aug 25, 2008, 11:56 AM
Captain Carnage says......
AirWarriorBelgy's Avatar
Seminole (St Pete.), Florida/ Seminole Crash Fest
Joined Jun 2002
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When I used the Stock motors I would get anywhere from 30 to 50 hours and then some.

Conversely I have had ips motors die after one flight. My Pico Stick FD- 1st Electric plane for me did this, I had one more do it to me on the old Float plane moth.

but I can say that in 7 or 8 years I have only gone through 4 or 5 IPS motors
1 on a Pico Stick, 1 on the Green and Yellow Float flyer, and two on the Blue Max. the last Blue max motor lasted almost 3 yrs.

I used a TP 2 cell 810 pack, flew at half throttle may a skosh more, for anywhere about 40 to 50 minutes, 1 to 2 flights almost every Sunday and a few other days thrown in here an there. That particular motor was quite robust.

500 mah @ 2 amps should translate into about 15 to 20 minutes at full throttle - full time

2 amps = 2000 mah per hour...just math after that.
500 mah is 25% of 2000 mah (2 amps)
This equals 25% of 60 minutes or 15 minutes

do alot of climbs and shut downs while gliding to earth or just float around at half throttle and those flight times can become severely elongated

Chuck
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Old Aug 25, 2008, 01:00 PM
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Kennesaw, Georgia
Joined Jul 2007
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Thanks for the help everyone. Let's hope I have one that lasts more than one flight . Steve, I honestly totally forgot about possible hc bl upgrades. I was quoting the price for possibly an m-a-e motor/esc and or the inrunner one that sits in the stock ips mount. Did that little hextronik mount right on the ips stick or need a little modding? Brushless for ~$20 is very appealing.

-Zero
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Old Aug 25, 2008, 01:21 PM
Planes, Guitars and Cigars
Steve_A_Reno's Avatar
Joined May 2002
3,171 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero3803
Thanks for the help everyone. Let's hope I have one that lasts more than one flight . Steve, I honestly totally forgot about possible hc bl upgrades. I was quoting the price for possibly an m-a-e motor/esc and or the inrunner one that sits in the stock ips mount. Did that little hextronik mount right on the ips stick or need a little modding? Brushless for ~$20 is very appealing.

-Zero
Just needed a wider stick for the mount. You can CA some ply to the stock stick or replace with the larger GWS stick. Was very simple. No mods to the cowl were needed as everything aligned perfectly. I know many are loyal to the IPS system but I had 2 duds that could barely lift my 8 oz AUW moth of the pavement after very few flights. I am very happy with my BL moth. Flying with the floats on the lake I was glad to have the extra power. It still flys very slow and scale if not slower. The only difference I see is the absence of the gearbox noise and the ability to get out of trouble with the extra power.
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