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Old Nov 29, 2006, 11:35 AM
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Syracuse, NY (USA)
Joined Dec 2004
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Surprising that the epoxy came loose. My wings are very solid w/o flying wires. I halfway sanded down the "nubs" on the struts and cabines. This way, the strut/cabines sit flat on the wing. I put epoxy on the end of the strut/cabine where they meet the wing. After attaching it, I slopped more epoxy along the struts on both side (a "fillet"). I built a little rig to hold the strut, which made it easier to add more glue.
My moth is light even with the epoxy - it's a small amount.
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Old Nov 29, 2006, 01:01 PM
I think I can glue that..
bob_suruncle's Avatar
Paris, Ontario, Canada EH
Joined Jul 2005
1,400 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Block
Surprising that the epoxy came loose. My wings are very solid w/o flying wires. I halfway sanded down the "nubs" on the struts and cabines. This way, the strut/cabines sit flat on the wing. I put epoxy on the end of the strut/cabine where they meet the wing. After attaching it, I slopped more epoxy along the struts on both side (a "fillet"). I built a little rig to hold the strut, which made it easier to add more glue.
My moth is light even with the epoxy - it's a small amount.
I think it pulled out on my initial test flight which ended in a rather bumpy landing 2nd flight was much better with one small bounce on landing. I Just epoxied it back up after a trip to Home depot to get some 5min epoxy at lunch... more like 20 min epoxy anyways... I notice while re-gluing the strut that my flying wires are sloppy... they pulled through the wing foam on the lower wing as I ran them through the wing rather than under the fuse... I suspected this would be a problem area; and it was. I am going to change the flying wires around for sure. May go with CF tube as noted a few posts ago but I would glue the tube to the top of the wing so it can still be removed.... or more likely will hook them to the bottom of fuse as per Led Kitty's idea (hope my wife wont notice the 2 missing hooks from her bra ) or I may just run a piece of music wire across the bottom of both wings and up through the wing next to the fuse with a loop in the end to tie off too... although this has potential to rip the wing as well I suppose.. hmmm maybe if I push a couple of the strut mounts for the beaver wing up through the bottom of the wing and tie off there..... Have to give this some thought.
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Old Nov 29, 2006, 01:07 PM
I think I can glue that..
bob_suruncle's Avatar
Paris, Ontario, Canada EH
Joined Jul 2005
1,400 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTEOR
Hey Dave, sounds good buddy. I've found using epoxy with micro-balloons to be very helpful in that area, also I started to sand the area very lightly before applying the mix. Got a question for you, does it go higher than 25 feet in the air? (BUZZ!!!!)
... hehehe... yup I had it up quite a ways while I was trimming it out... sorry Buzz
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Old Nov 29, 2006, 01:45 PM
Off 2 The Edge of Reality
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Scottsdale, AZ
Joined Sep 2003
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Lol!
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Old Nov 29, 2006, 03:26 PM
AllAloneInSpaceAndTime
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Canada, ON, Guelph
Joined Apr 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_suruncle
I think it pulled out on my initial test flight which ended in a rather bumpy landing 2nd flight was much better with one small bounce on landing. I Just epoxied it back up after a trip to Home depot to get some 5min epoxy at lunch... more like 20 min epoxy anyways... I notice while re-gluing the strut that my flying wires are sloppy... they pulled through the wing foam on the lower wing as I ran them through the wing rather than under the fuse... I suspected this would be a problem area; and it was. I am going to change the flying wires around for sure. May go with CF tube as noted a few posts ago but I would glue the tube to the top of the wing so it can still be removed.... or more likely will hook them to the bottom of fuse as per Led Kitty's idea (hope my wife wont notice the 2 missing hooks from her bra ) or I may just run a piece of music wire across the bottom of both wings and up through the wing next to the fuse with a loop in the end to tie off too... although this has potential to rip the wing as well I suppose.. hmmm maybe if I push a couple of the strut mounts for the beaver wing up through the bottom of the wing and tie off there..... Have to give this some thought.
Dave,
She won't miss the bra hooks? Or was that YOU won't miss them? Hehehe
Glad to hear she flys as great as she looks.
Corey
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Old Nov 29, 2006, 06:28 PM
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Souderton Pa.
Joined Dec 2004
695 Posts
I know ya gotta keep the paint kinda thin on these things. How are you guys painting them? I would like to use an airbrush I got from Harbour Freight. Has anyone used one of these on the plane before? Also what paint are you using and how are you thinning it.

Thanks
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Old Nov 29, 2006, 07:28 PM
AMA 6418
New Stanton, Pa.
Joined Jan 2004
2,335 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumbs1
I know ya gotta keep the paint kinda thin on these things. How are you guys painting them? I would like to use an airbrush I got from Harbour Freight. Has anyone used one of these on the plane before? Also what paint are you using and how are you thinning it.

Thanks
Thumbs:

A lot are using airbrushes. Get the water based paint at an art store or Wally World. Thin it with windshield washer fluid. I dont know anything about the airbrush from Harbour Freight. Someone else may jump in here that has used one.

...Keith...
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Old Nov 29, 2006, 08:14 PM
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Souderton Pa.
Joined Dec 2004
695 Posts
Yeah that's the stuff I use to paint all my planes. Right now I am usein a foam applicator and keeping it as thin as I can. I tried the airbrush with it but by the time you thin it to pass through the airbrush it's almost like water. Almost no coverage and what there is is dottie if ya know what I mean. I really never use an air brush before so I really don't know what I am doin so maybe I am doin somethin wrong.
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 07:38 AM
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Syracuse, NY (USA)
Joined Dec 2004
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I searched on here for "harbor freight" last week and there are postings from people using them...I'm not sure if it's the one on sale for $10 or a better one though. I need to go near there today and might grab one.
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 08:47 AM
I think I can glue that..
bob_suruncle's Avatar
Paris, Ontario, Canada EH
Joined Jul 2005
1,400 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumbs1
Yeah that's the stuff I use to paint all my planes. Right now I am usein a foam applicator and keeping it as thin as I can. I tried the airbrush with it but by the time you thin it to pass through the airbrush it's almost like water. Almost no coverage and what there is is dottie if ya know what I mean. I really never use an air brush before so I really don't know what I am doin so maybe I am doin somethin wrong.
Sounds like you are thinning too much. My rule of thumb (no pun intended) is to thin until it just barely sticks to the glass of the air brushes paint jar when tipped on an angle and turned back upright. I generally have to run higher pressure at the regulator than I would with normal hobby paints as the pigment seems to be thicker so I usually run at about 45 PSI compared to 28-30 with hobby paints.

Good luck!
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 09:11 AM
I think I can glue that..
bob_suruncle's Avatar
Paris, Ontario, Canada EH
Joined Jul 2005
1,400 Posts
Things I need to change based on the maiden flight:

Well I have reviewed my overall build of the moth and I think I need to make some modifications to really make this plane all it can be:

1. I did not install hinges in the rudder just creased it firmly along a straight edge as per some instructions I pulled off the web.... The hinge is way too tight using just the foam so I am cutting it and installing floppy disk hinges instead... based on my experience I dont think using the foam as a hinge is a great plan.

2. I Used the GWS control rods included with the kit... way tooo flexible!...This coupled with the tight rudder hinge makes rudder control somewhat slow and sometimes unresponsive. If I had realized this before assembly I would have fit a bamboo skewer in to replace the main length of the rods as they dont flex... however now that the plane is completely assembled I will be replacing the GWS ones with dubro rods.

3. I will be re-running my flying wires to a fixed point on top of the wing instead of through the wing. I saw this in a build instruction I pulled off the web and thought the week link would be where the wires pass through the lower wing... I was rignt; the wires cut the wing foam like butter even with light handling... I plan to make a styrene saddle that sits on top of the lower wind but under the fuse to allow easy removal of the wing. (See attached image). The out tabs will just peek out past the edges of the fuse and will be about 1/4" wide so dont let the bulky pic fool you.

4. Install dubro or GWS ez links at the control surfaces instead of the z bends... I ran out of the ez links on the last plane I built and decided not to bother on the moth.... note to self... dont cut corners.

5. Not positive yet but I may be replacing the GWS control horns with dubro or Eflite horns... not absolutely necessary but the replacements would be much sturdier and wont come loose... GWS ones seem to loosen up even when glued.
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Last edited by bob_suruncle; Nov 30, 2006 at 09:17 AM.
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 09:56 AM
I even seen a house fly!
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Montreal!
Joined Oct 2003
2,709 Posts
Ya, Lil' Fishy being my second TM, I went straight to floppy disk hinges, CF pushrods and DuBro EZ links The only thing I didn't change was the GWS horns. I really haven't had much problem with them, although making sure the backing plate is on the right way round does make quite a difference!

As for securing the flying wires at the fuselage (or right besides it anyway), the reason I opted for epoxying the little hooks to the wing is purely for sacrificial reasons. Back in my aircraft maintenance days, one of the things I learned was that while you want to make sure your structure is strong overall, you want to make sure that you have planned in "give points", so that in the event of a prang, those points will absorb the crashes forces and give way before say.. wrecking the wings themselves.

The idea is that should the wings (and flying wires by association) be stressed beyond a certain point, the attachment points will pop off instead of having the flying wires saw through the wings. Mind you, that being said, I've never had those attachment points pop off, although my basswood interwing struts, secured to the wings using similar logic have! For the most part, it's simply a question of securing them back to the wings, and I'm off again

Usually most damage these days is caused by interface with things such as trees, structures, ground etc. Ideally, on a pico TM, flying forces should not be enough to damage the airframe with flying wires and some of the other basic mods in place Now that my thumbs have learned a thing or two, I build to fly, not to crash

K.
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 10:33 AM
I think I can glue that..
bob_suruncle's Avatar
Paris, Ontario, Canada EH
Joined Jul 2005
1,400 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LedKitty
Now that my thumbs have learned a thing or two, I build to fly, not to crash

K.
I hear you Kitty and that generally thats what I have been doing now too. I havent really had any nasty crashes in months and other than some rather ugly landings my flights are generally uneventful... unless its an event I have planned for
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 10:46 AM
Off 2 The Edge of Reality
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Scottsdale, AZ
Joined Sep 2003
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Speaking of Fishie, Dave has a certain attachment to its new wings....Hows she coming along Kitty?

Dave, sounds like a pretty good list of mods, I am kinda curious tho, my elevator and rudder arrived scored pretty well, with the first flex it split pretty much clean through, was that not the case with yours?
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 11:14 AM
Forever WTTM Pilot #7
Buzz's Avatar
Daytona Beach, Florida, United States
Joined Aug 2002
11,521 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTEOR
Hey Dave, sounds good buddy. I've found using epoxy with micro-balloons to be very helpful in that area, also I started to sand the area very lightly before applying the mix. Got a question for you, does it go higher than 25 feet in the air? (BUZZ!!!!)
That's OK... I have the ONLY Moth that won't go over 25ft. That makes it a collectors item... you guys are just jealous!



Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_suruncle
... hehehe... yup I had it up quite a ways while I was trimming it out... sorry Buzz
Go ahead... laugh it up, Dave...Bob...? Life is not interesting until you have to fly UNDER all the power lines... and around small heges.

Just wait 'til the Christmas rush is over. I have two moths to build....both brushless. The 25ft. moth will never be changed. It's a legend!
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