CP2/BCP+Optic(etc) No 4 in 1 hack brushless

Mike abcd · Apr 22, 2006, 04:50 PM

This requires a transmitter with a programmable mixer. It won't work with the stock one.

Since the CP2/BCP has an unused channel (5), it should be possible to go brushless on the main motor without hacking the 4 in 1... ** IF ** you have a transmitter with a programmable mixer.

Just plug the BL ESC into channel 5 and use a programmable mixer set up with channel 3 (throttle) as master and channel 5 as slave at 100%.

I've only seen this mentioned once by Kai_Shiden.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...18&postcount=5

I actually managed to figure it out myself in stages. I initially assumed programmable transmitters would allow you to assign the servo channels for throttle/rudder/etc but found most (all?) don't when I checked the Optic 6 and 7CHP manuals. I even had a discussion at the LHS on how I thought they should with RTF models popularity and folks looking to upgrade transmitters. I later realized a mixer could have the same effect after buying an Optic 6 and starting to set it up.

The same technique should allow adding a HH gyro if you stick with the brushed main motor set up. Connect the gyro to channel 5 and add an ESC for the tail. Use the mixer to slave channel 5 to channel 4 (rudder) and leave REVO mixing off.

You could also probably use a better rate gyro. You'll have to turn it REVO on to take the place of the mixing usually done in the 4 in 1. I think the REVO mixing should show up on channel 5 but hopefully someone more familiar with transmitter programming can comment. If it doesn't, you might still be able to get the same effect if you have another mixer and can set it up to feed a portion of the throttle input (ch 3) to the tail.

Disclaimer: I haven't tried this yet and I'm basically a newbie. All I have done is a quick test on a King with an Esky receiver to verify I could move the throttle to channel 5 with a programmable mixer.

If you want to go brushless on both motors or brushless with another gyro, this won't get you there but at that point, it probably is worth going full separates. Used working 4 in 1 for these seem to sell fast at a decent price and covers a chunk of the cost.

Mike

Mike abcd · Apr 27, 2006, 03:55 PM

I did a quick test using the Optic 6 and CP2 4 in 1. I set up a mixer with channel 3 (throttle) as master and channel 5 as slave. I hooked a servo into channel 5 on the 4 in 1 for testing. It worked as expected with the servo moving as I varied the throttle.

Based on this test, I'm sure I can go with a brushless main motor without hacking the 4 in 1.

Mike

neilswolf · Apr 28, 2006, 04:19 PM

Mike,
Have you gone brushless yet? What did you go with?
I'm looking at getting a new TX and brushless soon.
Neil

trashmanf · Apr 28, 2006, 04:30 PM

Or you can just use the PowerZone board. But, I agree that the addition of your own transmitter can be valuable.

Be very careful, Kai Shinden has also warned that if you bring the headspeed of the Blade CP up (i.e. by brushless motor) it can fly apart without modifications! Have fun!

btw are you going brushless on the tail as well then?

Fletcher

Mike abcd · Apr 28, 2006, 10:55 PM

I haven't gone brushless yet. I'll probably use the Venom motor that Scott is currently advising. Right now, my objective is not huge power, just want to be able to fly out a pack without worrying about motor temps leading to short lifespan.

From what I've read, none of the brushless tail motors seem worth it. Probably going to go dual stock motors although I'm going to try Bonzer's filter first.

Kai has posted a lot of good info. I'm going to try to find his post on CP2 head speed.

I've been very glad I bought the Optic as it's nice to have control over the pitch and throttle curves. I also picked up a used King so I needed something as the CP2 transmitter won't work with it.

Being able to go brushless on the CP2 without the 4 in 1 hack is a VERY nice bonus though. I'm still surprised it hasn't attracted more comments given all the interest in BL on the CP2/BCP.

Mike

Kai_Shiden · Apr 29, 2006, 02:07 PM

Very cool thread Mike,

I just found this thread just now. I'll try to elaborate on the headspeed limits of the BCP head. I am running a Razor MH (4300KV), even with an 8 tooth pinion, it's a bit hot, but I had it just sitting doing nothing (I lost my tach but I would estimate it around 2700rpm head speed, higher than my Maxir, but lower than my Hornet II). I would suggest a motor around 3600KV and a 9 tooth pinion for the BCP (more gearing options than >4000KV motors).

So far 2 parts have been stressed past their limits, the inner slider of the Rotor Head Set [EFLH1146], and the Paddle Control Frame [EFLH1148].

The inner slider of the rotor head set (it's basically the anti-rotation portion), split apart (this part was new when I went to brushless and didn't have any crashes on it). I noticed this after a few flights on the brushless setup, the flybar became sloppy and started acting like sticky collective. This part I fixed simply by wrapping with carbon thread and soaking with rubberized CA (reinforcing around it keeps it captured so it can't split as easily).

I sheared one of the ball joints off of a brand new Paddle Control Frame in flight (made for an interesting "landing"), I attribute this mostly to my cyclic travel creating too high a load on the part at the high head speed (it broke during a stationary backflip in high idleup). I fixed this part by drilling and pinning the ball joints, then wrapping with carbon thread and soaking with rubberized CA, if I hadn't already sheared the ball joint, just pinning probably would have been adequate.

I've included pics of the 2 reinforced areas, after doing these reinforcements it's no longer had problems with the high headspeeds and high cyclic angles. I've been flying the tar out of it (had to tighten up the ball links a few times already).

-Kai_Shiden

Mike abcd · May 01, 2006, 10:56 PM

Wow, Great post! It will be a long time, if ever, before I can pull off moves that will load up the head like you do but I'm saving your post and pictures just in case.

I really appreciate the info you've posted. You were the first one I saw post about the use of channel 5 to go brushless. I'd figured out that it should be possible by myself but your confirmation made me sure enough about it to start this thread. I'm still surprised how few folks seem interested.

Mike

Fighting Gravity · May 02, 2006, 12:09 PM

Hi Mike,

I'm interested, and am waiting for your results. I have a 7chp, but don't yet own a bl motor, but it sure seems like the way to go. I've already gone to the dual tail motors, and would really like to go to a bl main. It sure sounds like the easiest route to get there.

Please keep us posted on your progress.

Scott

neilswolf · May 02, 2006, 12:28 PM

I just ordered by Optic 6 and am trying to determine the best brushless option for my CP2. I read Scott's article on using the 3200 but I'm thinking more along the lines of 3600 with 15-18A ESC.
The problem seems to be that my CP2 is underpowered with the stock motor and at full pitch the motor just boggs down. I've had several near misses where the main motor just could not pull the heli up from a fast planned decent. With Thanh's li-po alarm and speaker on the heli I think it's just too heavy.
It seems like for basic hovering and ff 3200 would be perfect but i'm getting into fast tight figure 8's and i'm working this poor brushed motor past it's limits...

I really like you mod using channel 5 and will definitely go that route once I decide on motor/ESC combo! great find!

Neil

Kai_Shiden · May 02, 2006, 01:21 PM

I forgot to mention, that I did actually fly on the 4-in-1 with brushless for a while (PHX-10 plugged into CH5, CH3 mixed to CH5, revo mix on the 4-in-1 turned off, and my transmitter programmed for the needed revo mix). I went to my separates because I was having interference problems when flying with friends (7 aircraft up at once, planes and helis).

One of the things you will have to do, is make sure the end point limit of channel 3 is low enough to arm the 4-in-1. Always setup your brushless ESC in fixed throttle mode (not autocalibrating, or governor mode). I know in the case of Castle Creations controllers, the ESC won't care about channel range below what it thinks is zero throttle.

The reason not to use an ESC's autocalibrating throttle mode, is that autocal makes the assumption that the highest channel value past about 3/4 range it's seen is full throttle (it also does the same thing for zero throttle, just below about 1/4 pulse width). This is how it "auto-calibrates" to non computer radios, this mode is really for planes, doing it this way ensures that the entire throttle stick range of movement is used. On a helicopter, it could potentially overspeed the head at low pitch during startup because it ramps to full throttle at a lower range (if in autocal mode).

Governer mode cannot be used without disabling the revo mix on the 4-in-1, and using revo mix programming on the transmitter (or turning down the 4-in-1 revo, and tuning the transmitter revo programming to augment). The reason for this is that governer mode uses flat throttle maps/curves, so the 4-in-1 wouldn't see any throttle variances to map the revo mix too.

-Kai_Shiden

P.S. I apologize if my replies come out a bit long, this stuff is so much easier to explain in person, one on one...

Mike abcd · May 02, 2006, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai_Shiden

I forgot to mention, that I did actually fly on the 4-in-1 with brushless for a while (PHX-10 plugged into CH5, CH3 mixed to CH5, revo mix on the 4-in-1 turned off, and my transmitter programmed for the needed revo mix).

...

How did you turn off the mixing on the 4 in 1? Did that require hacking into the 4 in 1 or did you just turn the "proportional" pot fully counter clockwise?

I'm also curious why you stopped using the 4 in 1 mixer for the tail. Was using REVO on the transmitter more stable? Do you happen to remember what REVO mix value you used?

Time for me to start a folder to bookmark all your useful posts. :-)

Mike

Kai_Shiden · May 02, 2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike abcd

How did you turn off the mixing on the 4 in 1? Did that require hacking into the 4 in 1 or did you just turn the "proportional" pot fully counter clockwise?

I'm also curious why you stopped using the 4 in 1 mixer for the tail. Was using REVO on the transmitter more stable? Do you happen to remember what REVO mix value you used?

Time for me to start a folder to bookmark all your useful posts. :-)

Mike

Yup, simply turn the proportional all the way counter clockwise, no hacking required. I didn't use the mixing in the 4-in-1 because it is primarily a linear mix throttle to tail mix, computer transmitters allow much finer tuning (my 9CHP is a 5 point revo curve, independently programmable for each flight mode).

I forgot to mention, that computer radios actually mix throttle stick position to tail, so it is more like a Collective Pitch to tail mixing, which is a better way of doing it, but is also difficult for Eflite/Esky to integrate into the onboard unit (4-in-1) because on a CCPM heli overall pitch is a combination of 3 channels.

Each of my idle up modes had a slightly different revo curve to them. The higher idle modes had extra revo mix to the ends to handle the much higher torque than is possible using the stock motor and transmitter (was pretty easy to adjust it to have +/- 12 deg of pitch on a computer radio).

I probably still have a backup copy of the my original radio program, however the revo mix will be very different for other people's setups (since I'm running too hot a motor, my revo would be way higher than needed for most). I'll look to see if my radio still has the program when I get home.

I will say, the 4-in-1 can be tuned to be quite effective with just the two adjusters, even on the stock radio. I know a few people who are learning on BCP's and HBCP2's, so I tune up their helis for them. I always offer to help out local people with helis, I went through the process of learning heli flight alone, so I feel for them. Truthfully, I never flew a BCP on the stock radio until I started tuning them for friends.

Looking back on the learning process now, I realize there's a huge catch-22 to learning heli flight: To learn to fly a heli you should have a trimmed/tuned heli to learn on, BUT, you need to know how to fly a heli to properly trim and tune one. I know that's not exactly true, but everyone I've tuned helis for has a blank, almost guilty look when I mention that too them, I had to learn that through a long series of crashes and rebuilds till I got it right, LOL.

-Kai_Shiden

preston_brown · May 03, 2006, 03:34 PM

Quick question: If you use a computer radio and a brushless ESC on channel 5, do you have to disable the built-in BEC on the ESC before plugging it in (i.e. remove the power wire from the connector)?

Kai_Shiden · May 03, 2006, 03:39 PM

Yes, good catch, you should disable the controller's BEC (pull the middle pin, just as you mentioned). The 4-in-1 uses a linear BEC just like most (if not all) brushless ESC's do, and they don't stack well (possible to burn out electrics if 2 linear regulators are connected in parallel).

-Kai_Shiden

Rare Bear · May 16, 2006, 02:43 AM

I just came across this thread in search of a brushless solution for my Blade, and I'm shocked I haven't heard more about it - seems like an "easy" way to go brushless, rather than tearing apart the 4 in 1.

Here's my dillema: I'm not that bright. Actually, I'm fairly sharp, but I'm on a steep learning curve when it comes to the electronic gadgetry of these heli's, and I was hoping for some detailed help from one of you electronic wizards - specifically someone who is using a Futaba 7CHP.

I understand the basics of this mod: Channel 5 is unused, leaving room for an ESC that will power a brushless motor. As for controlling this, Ch. 5 will become a slave to Ch. 3 via Tx mixing, which will cause Ch. 5 to mimic Ch. 3 - am I making sense? Hope so!!

Here's where it gets tricky - for me, at least. How do I program my Tx to make Ch. 5 a slave to Ch. 3? I looked through the program list on my Tx, and I couldn't find anything that would allow me to do this; can anyone help? If so, please be detailed & specific.

Here's my last problem; Kai mentioned disabling the BEC on the 4 in 1? What's he saying? Pull out the Ch. 5 middle pin on my 4 in 1? That doesn't make much sense to me, and I'm wondering how easy it will be to do without damaging the 4 in 1. Please, expand on this issue, because I don't follow this part very well.

Thanks for your help, guys; I've been running very short on power with my Blade, and with the twin motor upgrade I have planned, along with the Super Skids already installed, my Blade is getting heavy, and it just doesn't have the power I need. Hopefully I can make this work!! Thanks & God bless - "Rare Bear"

Apr 22, 2006, 04:50 PM	#1
Mike abcd Newbie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 830	CP2/BCP+Optic(etc) No 4 in 1 hack brushless This requires a transmitter with a programmable mixer. It won't work with the stock one. Since the CP2/BCP has an unused channel (5), it should be possible to go brushless on the main motor without hacking the 4 in 1... IF you have a transmitter with a programmable mixer. Just plug the BL ESC into channel 5 and use a programmable mixer set up with channel 3 (throttle) as master and channel 5 as slave at 100%. I've only seen this mentioned once by Kai_Shiden. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...18&postcount=5 I actually managed to figure it out myself in stages. I initially assumed programmable transmitters would allow you to assign the servo channels for throttle/rudder/etc but found most (all?) don't when I checked the Optic 6 and 7CHP manuals. I even had a discussion at the LHS on how I thought they should with RTF models popularity and folks looking to upgrade transmitters. I later realized a mixer could have the same effect after buying an Optic 6 and starting to set it up. The same technique should allow adding a HH gyro if you stick with the brushed main motor set up. Connect the gyro to channel 5 and add an ESC for the tail. Use the mixer to slave channel 5 to channel 4 (rudder) and leave REVO mixing off. You could also probably use a better rate gyro. You'll have to turn it REVO on to take the place of the mixing usually done in the 4 in 1. I think the REVO mixing should show up on channel 5 but hopefully someone more familiar with transmitter programming can comment. If it doesn't, you might still be able to get the same effect if you have another mixer and can set it up to feed a portion of the throttle input (ch 3) to the tail. Disclaimer: I haven't tried this yet and I'm basically a newbie. All I have done is a quick test on a King with an Esky receiver to verify I could move the throttle to channel 5 with a programmable mixer. If you want to go brushless on both motors or brushless with another gyro, this won't get you there but at that point, it probably is worth going full separates. Used working 4 in 1 for these seem to sell fast at a decent price and covers a chunk of the cost. Mike

Apr 29, 2006, 02:07 PM	#6
Kai_Shiden Crazy Heli Technogeek Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: South Seattle, Washington, US Posts: 3,632	Very cool thread Mike, I just found this thread just now. I'll try to elaborate on the headspeed limits of the BCP head. I am running a Razor MH (4300KV), even with an 8 tooth pinion, it's a bit hot, but I had it just sitting doing nothing (I lost my tach but I would estimate it around 2700rpm head speed, higher than my Maxir, but lower than my Hornet II). I would suggest a motor around 3600KV and a 9 tooth pinion for the BCP (more gearing options than >4000KV motors). So far 2 parts have been stressed past their limits, the inner slider of the Rotor Head Set [EFLH1146], and the Paddle Control Frame [EFLH1148]. The inner slider of the rotor head set (it's basically the anti-rotation portion), split apart (this part was new when I went to brushless and didn't have any crashes on it). I noticed this after a few flights on the brushless setup, the flybar became sloppy and started acting like sticky collective. This part I fixed simply by wrapping with carbon thread and soaking with rubberized CA (reinforcing around it keeps it captured so it can't split as easily). I sheared one of the ball joints off of a brand new Paddle Control Frame in flight (made for an interesting "landing"), I attribute this mostly to my cyclic travel creating too high a load on the part at the high head speed (it broke during a stationary backflip in high idleup). I fixed this part by drilling and pinning the ball joints, then wrapping with carbon thread and soaking with rubberized CA, if I hadn't already sheared the ball joint, just pinning probably would have been adequate. I've included pics of the 2 reinforced areas, after doing these reinforcements it's no longer had problems with the high headspeeds and high cyclic angles. I've been flying the tar out of it (had to tighten up the ball links a few times already). -Kai_Shiden Attached Thumbnails 58.0 KB · Views: 763 72.4 KB · Views: 679

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Apr 27, 2006, 03:55 PM	#2
Mike abcd Newbie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 830	I did a quick test using the Optic 6 and CP2 4 in 1. I set up a mixer with channel 3 (throttle) as master and channel 5 as slave. I hooked a servo into channel 5 on the 4 in 1 for testing. It worked as expected with the servo moving as I varied the throttle. Based on this test, I'm sure I can go with a brushless main motor without hacking the 4 in 1. Mike

Apr 28, 2006, 04:19 PM	#3
neilswolf Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: California Posts: 236	Mike, Have you gone brushless yet? What did you go with? I'm looking at getting a new TX and brushless soon. Neil

Apr 28, 2006, 04:30 PM	#4
trashmanf SCAMMERS WELCOME!!!!!!!!! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Kent, WA Posts: 2,906	Or you can just use the PowerZone board. But, I agree that the addition of your own transmitter can be valuable. Be very careful, Kai Shinden has also warned that if you bring the headspeed of the Blade CP up (i.e. by brushless motor) it can fly apart without modifications! Have fun! btw are you going brushless on the tail as well then? Fletcher

Apr 28, 2006, 10:55 PM	#5
Mike abcd Newbie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 830	I haven't gone brushless yet. I'll probably use the Venom motor that Scott is currently advising. Right now, my objective is not huge power, just want to be able to fly out a pack without worrying about motor temps leading to short lifespan. From what I've read, none of the brushless tail motors seem worth it. Probably going to go dual stock motors although I'm going to try Bonzer's filter first. Kai has posted a lot of good info. I'm going to try to find his post on CP2 head speed. I've been very glad I bought the Optic as it's nice to have control over the pitch and throttle curves. I also picked up a used King so I needed something as the CP2 transmitter won't work with it. Being able to go brushless on the CP2 without the 4 in 1 hack is a VERY nice bonus though. I'm still surprised it hasn't attracted more comments given all the interest in BL on the CP2/BCP. Mike

May 01, 2006, 10:56 PM	#7
Mike abcd Newbie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 830	Wow, Great post! It will be a long time, if ever, before I can pull off moves that will load up the head like you do but I'm saving your post and pictures just in case. I really appreciate the info you've posted. You were the first one I saw post about the use of channel 5 to go brushless. I'd figured out that it should be possible by myself but your confirmation made me sure enough about it to start this thread. I'm still surprised how few folks seem interested. Mike

May 02, 2006, 12:09 PM	#8
Fighting Gravity one crash at a time Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: near Rockford, Illinois Posts: 232	Hi Mike, I'm interested, and am waiting for your results. I have a 7chp, but don't yet own a bl motor, but it sure seems like the way to go. I've already gone to the dual tail motors, and would really like to go to a bl main. It sure sounds like the easiest route to get there. Please keep us posted on your progress. Scott

May 02, 2006, 12:28 PM	#9
neilswolf Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: California Posts: 236	I just ordered by Optic 6 and am trying to determine the best brushless option for my CP2. I read Scott's article on using the 3200 but I'm thinking more along the lines of 3600 with 15-18A ESC. The problem seems to be that my CP2 is underpowered with the stock motor and at full pitch the motor just boggs down. I've had several near misses where the main motor just could not pull the heli up from a fast planned decent. With Thanh's li-po alarm and speaker on the heli I think it's just too heavy. It seems like for basic hovering and ff 3200 would be perfect but i'm getting into fast tight figure 8's and i'm working this poor brushed motor past it's limits... I really like you mod using channel 5 and will definitely go that route once I decide on motor/ESC combo! great find! Neil

May 02, 2006, 01:21 PM	#10
Kai_Shiden Crazy Heli Technogeek Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: South Seattle, Washington, US Posts: 3,632	I forgot to mention, that I did actually fly on the 4-in-1 with brushless for a while (PHX-10 plugged into CH5, CH3 mixed to CH5, revo mix on the 4-in-1 turned off, and my transmitter programmed for the needed revo mix). I went to my separates because I was having interference problems when flying with friends (7 aircraft up at once, planes and helis). One of the things you will have to do, is make sure the end point limit of channel 3 is low enough to arm the 4-in-1. Always setup your brushless ESC in fixed throttle mode (not autocalibrating, or governor mode). I know in the case of Castle Creations controllers, the ESC won't care about channel range below what it thinks is zero throttle. The reason not to use an ESC's autocalibrating throttle mode, is that autocal makes the assumption that the highest channel value past about 3/4 range it's seen is full throttle (it also does the same thing for zero throttle, just below about 1/4 pulse width). This is how it "auto-calibrates" to non computer radios, this mode is really for planes, doing it this way ensures that the entire throttle stick range of movement is used. On a helicopter, it could potentially overspeed the head at low pitch during startup because it ramps to full throttle at a lower range (if in autocal mode). Governer mode cannot be used without disabling the revo mix on the 4-in-1, and using revo mix programming on the transmitter (or turning down the 4-in-1 revo, and tuning the transmitter revo programming to augment). The reason for this is that governer mode uses flat throttle maps/curves, so the 4-in-1 wouldn't see any throttle variances to map the revo mix too. -Kai_Shiden P.S. I apologize if my replies come out a bit long, this stuff is so much easier to explain in person, one on one...

May 03, 2006, 03:34 PM	#13
preston_brown Intermediate Pilot Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chapel Hill, NC Posts: 332	Quick question: If you use a computer radio and a brushless ESC on channel 5, do you have to disable the built-in BEC on the ESC before plugging it in (i.e. remove the power wire from the connector)?

May 03, 2006, 03:39 PM	#14
Kai_Shiden Crazy Heli Technogeek Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: South Seattle, Washington, US Posts: 3,632	Yes, good catch, you should disable the controller's BEC (pull the middle pin, just as you mentioned). The 4-in-1 uses a linear BEC just like most (if not all) brushless ESC's do, and they don't stack well (possible to burn out electrics if 2 linear regulators are connected in parallel). -Kai_Shiden

May 16, 2006, 02:43 AM	#15
Rare Bear Isaiah 40:31 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Stockton, CA Posts: 1,361	I just came across this thread in search of a brushless solution for my Blade, and I'm shocked I haven't heard more about it - seems like an "easy" way to go brushless, rather than tearing apart the 4 in 1. Here's my dillema: I'm not that bright. Actually, I'm fairly sharp, but I'm on a steep learning curve when it comes to the electronic gadgetry of these heli's, and I was hoping for some detailed help from one of you electronic wizards - specifically someone who is using a Futaba 7CHP. I understand the basics of this mod: Channel 5 is unused, leaving room for an ESC that will power a brushless motor. As for controlling this, Ch. 5 will become a slave to Ch. 3 via Tx mixing, which will cause Ch. 5 to mimic Ch. 3 - am I making sense? Hope so!! Here's where it gets tricky - for me, at least. How do I program my Tx to make Ch. 5 a slave to Ch. 3? I looked through the program list on my Tx, and I couldn't find anything that would allow me to do this; can anyone help? If so, please be detailed & specific. Here's my last problem; Kai mentioned disabling the BEC on the 4 in 1? What's he saying? Pull out the Ch. 5 middle pin on my 4 in 1? That doesn't make much sense to me, and I'm wondering how easy it will be to do without damaging the 4 in 1. Please, expand on this issue, because I don't follow this part very well. Thanks for your help, guys; I've been running very short on power with my Blade, and with the twin motor upgrade I have planned, along with the Super Skids already installed, my Blade is getting heavy, and it just doesn't have the power I need. Hopefully I can make this work!! Thanks & God bless - "Rare Bear"