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Old Apr 14, 2006, 11:23 AM
Hooper, full throttle!
Tommy D's Avatar
USA, NY, East Islip
Joined Feb 2004
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PZ Focke Wulf 190 Brushless Mods Thread

Its just as the title says. A place for guys to share just what they did to get the brushed motor out and brushless motor in!

My PZ P-51 was powered my a Mega 3T in the stock gearbox. With nearly 300W the plane required a lot of down thrust and wing/elevator mods. The plane only lasted a dozen flights before a glitch brought it down but it was a hoot to fly!

The FW-190 I'm building will have a Nippy Outrunner. Its a lot lighter then the standard brushed motor with all it's hardware hanging off it.

Some are going to no doubt try and attach to the factory plastic firewall. That might be fine short term, or for under 200W but any firewall I can rock back and forth with my hands is no good in my book for high power.

So I have made a light ply firewall that will glue to the nose. It has zero thrust angle as I have to make a spacer for the nippy anyways.

Take note the PZ gearbox has the required thrust mod, NOT the mount. Also take note the cowling is OFFSET to make the thrust line look straight.

Or I might just have a defective cowl!

Photos to follow but as I'm at work that will be shot on a camera phone.

Good Luck!

Tommy D
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Old Apr 14, 2006, 11:45 AM
MN WATTS Master
Vintauri's Avatar
United States, MN, Mankato
Joined Jul 2003
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Sounds interesting Tommy. On your mustang did you reinforce the wing at all? Do you plan to on the FW-190?

E-flite is also offering new brushless motors as a direct replacement for 400-480 sized gearboxes. They have the same bolt pattern and size.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=EFLM2005

This one can handle up to 400 watts of power.

That would make the FW-190 move.

Steve
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Old Apr 14, 2006, 12:36 PM
The sky is my playground.
Dora Nine's Avatar
United States, NH
Joined May 2005
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I've puchased one (E-flite six series 2700kv)for my PZ Mustang for using the stock gear box and 10X8" prop. Anyone have moto calc...I'd like to know how many amps that's going to draw. I bought a SS-35, but I'm thinking I should held out for the 40-45? I'm planning on also using two HS-81's since they are direct fit from the PZ one's. And incase some asks...I use JR Posistive shift RX's...Thanks!
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Old Apr 14, 2006, 12:47 PM
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USA, IL, Champaign
Joined Jul 2005
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Stupid questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy D
FWIW I started a brushless mod thread in the Electric warbirds section. Just so this thread dosent get taken-over.

Tommy D
-Why is it important to you to run these war planes so way overpowered? Dribbe states that the stock system is overpower compared to the real plane, with 300 watts brushless you are more than doubling that. Are you increasing both thrust and speed equally or focused on one or the other? I am flying the 47 with 150 watts on a highly efficient inrunner and have power to spare with the ability to fly in windy condtions and do some verticle. I also have long flight times. Even my power system is way overpowered compared to the real thing. Customizing to one"s desire seems to be a huge part of this hobby so I understand you want to do whatever you feel like, I was just curious.

Good luck with your modifications. I look forward to pictures and descriptions of the modifications. Anything that helps me learn, I am all for it. I did not get a good reply on how to fix this type of material for different types of damage, please shed some light on this, if you get a chance?
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Old Apr 14, 2006, 12:54 PM
Hooper, full throttle!
Tommy D's Avatar
USA, NY, East Islip
Joined Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintauri
Sounds interesting Tommy. On your mustang did you reinforce the wing at all? Do you plan to on the FW-190?

Steve
Hi Steve

On my P-51 I bought the plane used and abused. After giving up trying to use a set of Wattage Retracts I did add a spar in the wing. That was after folding 1 wing in flight and barely getting it down in 1 piece. Having had the wing appart already I just sliced open the tape and used an arrow shaft from the local sports store. You had to slice the poor excuse for a spar foam up on the P-51 to get it in there. Also I added servos inside the wing as the stock linkage would bind up badly.

The FW-190 wing “feels” stiffer. Now I’m not saying it dosent need to be upgraded. I will try it bone stock first. I’m even going to try the factory aileron linkage. That said, if the wing tacos even a little in flight, or the ailerons give me trouble it’s getting both mods.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintauri
E-flite is also offering new brushless motors as a direct replacement for 400-480 sized gearboxes. They have the same bolt pattern and size.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=EFLM2005

This one can handle up to 400 watts of power.

That would make the FW-190 move.

Steve
Ill be honest with you Steve. I don’t own any E-Flite motors. They do seem to have quite a following though don’t they?

If I was going to go through the “trouble” of adding an inrunner I would use my trusty Mega 16/15/3. The Mega brand have been very good to me in the past.

I noticed last night the stock canned motor is actually loose in the gearbox. That might account for some differences in power people report stock.

Hopefully others who cant leave well enough alone will chime in here. Took a few photos of the work I did today and Ill post them tonight.

Tommy D
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Old Apr 14, 2006, 12:59 PM
Hooper, full throttle!
Tommy D's Avatar
USA, NY, East Islip
Joined Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenex
-Why is it important to you to run these war planes so way overpowered?
Why?? For the same reason I had a 514 in my 1979 Mustang. I like a LOT of Power AND Speed.

Might as well fly them fast now while I can still see them!

I know these mods are not for everyone, thats one of the reasons I started this thread. No reason to clog up the other one <thread> with this info when many are going to fly it completly stock.

Tommy D
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Old Apr 14, 2006, 01:15 PM
Things are looking up...
mechrick's Avatar
Orlando, Florida
Joined Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy D
Take note the PZ gearbox has the required thrust mod, NOT the mount. Also take note the cowling is OFFSET to make the thrust line look straight.

Or I might just have a defective cowl!

Tommy D
Your cowl is not deffective, it's angled down slightly and about 5 degree to the right. I haven't pulled mine apart yet, but I will keep a watch on your mod. Good catch with the loose motor in the mount. I know I have variable performance with the old PZ Cub and had to get the gear interface just right using tape to snug the motor into the gearbox.

Right now I have an EFlite 480 Outrunner in my Scorpio FW. It is/was intended and bought for the PZ FW, but maybe has a temporary home. Now that the SC FW is looking good, I probably will leave it in there and fly the PZ FW stock for a while, but with the Lipo battery.

And while I enjoy slow scale flying, you can never have too much power, unless it can do damage to your airframe while flying (ripping out a fire wall). You don't have to use it, but it is there if you get into trouble.

Good luck and take lots of photos, I'll cheer you on.

Rick
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Old Apr 14, 2006, 02:43 PM
The sky is my playground.
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United States, NH
Joined May 2005
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I personally add extra power, for the "just in case" sinario. Sometimes if I'm not paying attention or a landing isn't going 100%...I've got power to bail myself out. Jam the left stick forward and pull back on the other...couple seconds, I can be up to 100ft versus 2ft and things are happy again...may not look pretty, or be "scale" but my plane is still in one piece and gets to fly another day. My .02 cents.
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Old Apr 14, 2006, 02:59 PM
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United States, MN, Mankato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dora Nine
Jam the left stick forward and pull back on the other...couple seconds, I can be up to 100ft versus 2ft and things are happy again.

Yeah that does work but it can also cause a nasty stall or tourque roll on some over powered planes

Don't ask

Steve
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Old Apr 14, 2006, 04:16 PM
The sky is my playground.
Dora Nine's Avatar
United States, NH
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I guess so far I have been lucky....haven't had that happen. Anyone have some answers to my earlier post...#3? Thanks! Getting back on topic here...
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Old Apr 14, 2006, 11:48 PM
Hooper, full throttle!
Tommy D's Avatar
USA, NY, East Islip
Joined Feb 2004
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Time was short so I did not get much done on the model today. I did get the firewall mounted. Also I think I have the prop adapter <4mm Hyperion XL> and spinner working together with the use of some 6mm washers. The spinner will no doubt require some glue of sorts to keep it attached to its backplate me thinks.

Went with H-55 servos. They were my 2nd choice but I think they will be ok.

Ok some camera-phone photos <yuck> for now.

Hope someone jumps in with a nice inrunner upgrade. Never had enough flights on the P-51 to really punish it and see how long it would last.

Tommy D
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Old Apr 15, 2006, 12:37 AM
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USA, IL, Champaign
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dora Nine
I've puchased one (E-flite six series 2700kv)for my PZ Mustang for using the stock gear box and 10X8" prop. Anyone have moto calc...I'd like to know how many amps that's going to draw. I bought a SS-35, but I'm thinking I should held out for the 40-45? I'm planning on also using two HS-81's since they are direct fit from the PZ one's. And incase some asks...I use JR Posistive shift RX's...Thanks!
Assuming that you will be using the stock 3:1 gear ratio, looks like around 20-25 amps depending upon the efficiency of the motor and battery. Prop speed is around 60mph. You should be fine with the 35 amp controller.
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Old Apr 15, 2006, 10:23 AM
Hooper, full throttle!
Tommy D's Avatar
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One other item of brief mention on this sunny & windless day in NY <I should really be flying now!> Inspect those aileron connectors with the thumb screws really well. One of mine was stripped and no doubt would have caused a crash. They have been replaced with Dubro hardware.

Tommy D
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Old Apr 15, 2006, 02:36 PM
Hooper, full throttle!
Tommy D's Avatar
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Joined Feb 2004
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Initial Power run up

I ran up the Nippy 2510/114 today after mounting the motor. Do to a miscalculation I did NOT need the spacer to mount the Nippy. Its mounted directly to the firewall and shimmed both down and to the right.

On a TP 2100 PL and a APC 9x7.5 Prop I got the following:

265W for a cost of 25.6A . The prop is spinning about 8000 RPM, or good for 50+ MPH give or take.

According to “The great motor test” I can expect a 1:1 thrust to weight. Switching to a 10x5E the ratio increases to 1.5:1 thrust to weight.

The maiden will be made with the 9x7.5 but I might bring the larger 10” as well.

Tommy D
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Old Apr 15, 2006, 05:53 PM
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Tonka Bay, MN
Joined Jan 2006
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Go Tommy,

I can't wait to hear the flight report.

I've got the Stock 190 with the Lipo and I find myself wanting more ponnies under the cowl.

Da Bear
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