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Old Apr 03, 2006, 01:33 AM
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Helena, MT
Joined Feb 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrsudog
It does not sound like he:

A) Was arrested

B) Followed #4 correctly. I doubt he was tackled and handcuffed because he asked a cop if he was being detained.
Well, if he was not free to go, he was arrested. I was going on information provided. I said, if there was no cause for the arrest he would have a case.

I don't buy the argument about travel time, time off work etc...I'd get all that and more back from the PD with a good lawyer working on contingency.

If you are arrested without cause, just go along, don't say a word, and call a good lawyer who will get you off of whatever bogus charges and then sue the PD for your mental anguish, time off work lost wages, legal and other costs if you ended up in the blotter or local paper you can sue for defamation of character too. If you get a good lawyer you will probably get a nice settlement or if it goes to trial (unlikely if you actually have a case), and you get a good jury, they can slap some punitive damages on the PD as well.

Of course all of this assumes that you did not provoke or give other cause for being arrested.
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Last edited by LTChip; Apr 04, 2006 at 01:31 AM.
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 04:51 AM
Brunswick, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrsudog
B) Followed #4 correctly. I doubt he was tackled and handcuffed because he asked a cop if he was being detained.
The officers answer was very ambiguous when asked repeatedly if I was under arrest. After being "detained" for close to 1/2 hour I stated that if I wasn't under arrest I was leaving. I turned to leave, was tackled and arrested. As far as the travel time/cost argument of fighting it, I made a decision that it wasn't worth my time to contest it any further. If you really have doubts shoot me a PM and I "may" give you my name and a link to the sheriff's website where you can see the information for yourself(nine years later and it's still there). As far as suing the county for false arrest or whatever else was suggested, that thought was never a consideration. In the end the police officer makes a judgment call on what to do. Was this officer wrong, I believe so. That doesn't make it criminal on his part. For any monetary damage, he took one evening of my time. How much is that worth?? Not enough for me to waste hours/days/weeks in court worrying about it.

Jim
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 12:21 PM
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Fayetteville, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTChip
Well, if he was not free to go, he was arrested. I was going on information provided. I said, if there was no cause for the arrest he would have a case.
Quite a distinction exists between detained and arrested. For example, in an automobile accident, you are not free to leave until released by the police. Restrictions are placed on your movements, but you are not (necessarily) under arrest.

If you are legaly detained, and violate the officers instructions (try to leave the scene, for example), you may then be arrested. Even if it turns out that the original detention was for suspicision of something you were not guilty of, the subsequent arrest would be legal. Litigation would get you nothing, as the arrest was proceduraly fine.
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 12:28 PM
Go get them Meg!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarge
Quite a distinction exists between detained and arrested. For example, in an automobile accident, you are not free to leave until released by the police. Restrictions are placed on your movements, but you are not (necessarily) under arrest.

If you are legaly detained, and violate the officers instructions (try to leave the scene, for example), you may then be arrested. Even if it turns out that the original detention was for suspicision of something you were not guilty of, the subsequent arrest would be legal. Litigation would get you nothing, as the arrest was proceduraly fine.
'Zactly my point. You may be detained while an officer spends time determining that particulars about an incident, but until you hear the magic words, "You are under arrest", followed by a thorough Mirandizing, you are just being detained.
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 01:14 PM
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Southwest Missouri
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Sad to say, any encounters I have had with the police have not been positive.
And my brother was in law enforcement for 30 years, so I have experience from that side of the equation.

I could list several incidents. But will mention the latest one.

No arrest record, no auto ticket of any kind for me. Ever

2 years ago a person that had caused me great stress, and tried to do me and my young daughter phyiscal harm, was questioned and released by the local police several times.
The person was warned to keep their hands off and threats away from myself and daughter.

Police told me to please report directly to them of any new problems.

Problem got worse, daughter and I were yelled at and threatened.

We went to the police. I was arrested. Handcuffed. Daughter taken into custody.

The person I had complained about had called the police, told them I had attacked and harmed them. Police did not investigate.

I practice martial arts. I can disarm and harm if need be. But of course, that is a last resort. I had touched no one. Let the law handle the problem.

I was held in custody at the local jail one day. No food, water, phone call. Transfered to the jail in another town. Booked, put in bull pen with 15 others. Mostly drunks, drug users, car thiefs. No food or water. I had asked several times.

Got to use the phone many hours later. No one could bail me out right away. I found out, and did, make my own bail. $3,500 down the drain.

My captors acted like they were doing me a favor by releasing me. NOT.

When I went to court, waited all day to find the charges were dropped for lack of evidence. Several people had called in my defence. The accuser admited they lied.

No one ever said 'sorry'.

I'm out the bail money and more for layer I had retained.

Not counting the feelings I had while being arrested, booked, jailed.

After two years the feeling I had are still fresh.

My daughter, age 12, just tested and passed her first Dan Black Belt.

She does not like or trust the police. Me either.
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 01:18 PM
You win again, gravity!
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Rotterdam, NL
Joined Jun 2004
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Quote:
I'm out the bail money and more for layer I had retained.
Huh? Don't you get the bail money back if you show up in court?
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 01:20 PM
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Southwest Missouri
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I received no refund.
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 01:25 PM
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Helena, MT
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Quote:
'Zactly my point. You may be detained while an officer spends time determining that particulars about an incident, but until you hear the magic words, "You are under arrest", followed by a thorough Mirandizing, you are just being detained.
Not 'zactly true. There is a progression from a Terry Stop to an Arrest and it does not have to be the "you are under arrest" or Mirandizing to cross the line from stop to arrest.

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/cri...ice_stops.html
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 01:29 PM
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Helena, MT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mode1
I received no refund.
Was this in Placer County? You need a better lawyer. I think you have a case there. You should at least get your bail back if you have no pending charges against you.
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 02:01 PM
Go get them Meg!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTChip
Not 'zactly true. There is a progression from a Terry Stop to an Arrest and it does not have to be the "you are under arrest" or Mirandizing to cross the line from stop to arrest.

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/cri...ice_stops.html

I've been seen enough stops to know that handcuffing is not the same as being arrested. It is not uncommon at all for cops to cuff detained persons and place them in the back seat of the radio car while talking to other detained persons, only to be kicked loose when the cops figure out the pertinent details.

Going by your link, a person being detained can claim he was "Arrested" anytime after he "Reasonably" thinks he may not be released. That is simply not the case. A man with a body in the trunk might reasonably think he will not be released the minute he sees the cop with light on behind him, but if the cop does not search the trunk, the man may well never be arrested.
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 02:06 PM
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Southwest Missouri
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LTChip, yes it was in Placer County. My legal advisor didn't make it to court untill the last minute. I told him since he got lost, get lost.

I still have all the paperwork. Including the bail receipt. Bail bond company (I guess I should not mention the name?) starts with an 'A'.

You know Placer County?


P.S. After my arrest, my dwelling was searched and a personal firearm confiscated.
They only found the revolver my father gave me. S&W 357. Missed several others.

Took 8 months and many phone calls and visits to the local P.D. to retrieve it. One hassel after another. Again, thay acted like they were doing me a favor.

I was told in court all charges were dropped and/or had never been pursued by the prosecuter. Local P.D. was told to return my firearm. Incident over. Yeah.

If I have a partial or whole refund due me, no one ever mentioned it untill now. Pehaps I should call the bail bond company?

My daughter is our of school this June. We will be out of California then.
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 02:12 PM
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Helena, MT
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Bail monies are put up so they can be assured that you will go to court. IF you go to court - you get the bail back is the way I understood it.
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 02:18 PM
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Helena, MT
Joined Feb 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrsudog
... It is not uncommon at all for cops to cuff detained persons and place them in the back seat of the radio car while talking to other detained persons, only to be kicked loose when the cops figure out the pertinent details.

Going by your link, a person being detained can claim he was "Arrested" anytime after he "Reasonably" thinks he may not be released. That is simply not the case. ....
What you describe is a Terry Stop. The reasonable test is a third party (read court) test. The cops may hold you for a reasonable period as part of the Terry Stop. It becomes an arrest when it goes beyond that. If there is no probably cause that a crime has occurred, and no reasonable justification for continuing holding you (questions are over etc.), then you have a case for unlawful arrest. It does not matter if they later let you go or you never go to jail.

You do have to prove it to a court for it to mean anything though.
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 02:26 PM
Brunswick, Ohio
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Joined Aug 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTChip
Bail monies are put up so they can be assured that you will go to court. IF you go to court - you get the bail back is the way I understood it.

Sounds like you hired a bond company to bond you out. You paid them a fee to post (or at least vouch for) your bond. Their fee for service is more then likely not refundable. If your bond is $5000 you may post it and it will be refunded once your obligation is met (appearing in court when required) or you can hire a bond company and pay them a percentage of your bond to guarantee to the courts your appearance this would not be a refundable fee.

Jim
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 02:35 PM
You win again, gravity!
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Rotterdam, NL
Joined Jun 2004
279 Posts
If the fee for posting the bond was $3500, what was the bail itself?

Mode1, maybe you should see if someone made a mistake, and if you can still get the bail money back. And if you can, we want our share for suggesting it!
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