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Old Mar 28, 2006, 01:31 PM
Hold my beer and watch this!
Jeremy Z's Avatar
Northern IL
Joined Oct 2005
2,380 Posts
Help!
Advice on upgrading the power system on my EasyGlider Electric? (long)

First thing: I wanted to try to do this for as little money as possible.

I have my stock EasyGlider Electric. As a refresher, it has a speed 400, geared 3:1, with a 9.5x6 folding prop/spinner. Since Multiplex pulled this drive unit out of the Space Scooter, the spinner's too small for the EGE, and the prop doesn't fold properly. Now, I'm using an 8 cell, 750 mAh AAA size pack and getting by with it for about 5 minutes' worth of climb. I haven't bought my final battery pack for it yet. So that is one motivation for upgrading.

The other motivation is that it doesn't offer very fast climbs. I'm not after hotliner or vertical type climbs. I don't need it, as this is a thermal sailplane. I would like to be able to climb out at about 30-40 though.


Option 1:
  • Get a "Long can" 400 motor from Hobby-Lobby, and do a direct replacement with the speed 400. It would use the same pinion gear, and I believe it has the same mounting holes.
  • Replace the stock prop/spinner with a 38mm one. However, the output shaft of this gearbox is 3.5mm; an odd size. Any spinner/yoke I bought would have to be a 3.2 mm unit drilled out to 9/64" or 3.5mm. I don't feel confident that this would be conducive to good balance or a good fit. I assume the Graupner folding props are a setscrew type fit?
  • Total: $35
Option 2:
  • Buy this Master Airscrew 05 gearmotor (2.5:1) with 12x8 folding prop from Tower and use it. (make it fit if it isn't a drop-in replacement): http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...7&I=EB2022&P=K
  • My ESC is a 25A Jeti, so it will handle it. I also think that since it's a 7.2V, I would be able to get by with a 3S LiPo . I'd have faster climbs, but shorter runtime, as this is a big step up from a speed 400.
  • This is probably twice the climbing ability of the stock setup, and for only $32, but I'd have to maybe hog out some material in the nose and add some tail weight, as I'm sure that 05 motor is a lot heavier than my speed 400.
  • Also, they don't bother to tell me the size of the !#$% spinner, so I don't even know if it's right...
  • Total: $32
Option 3:
  • Buy an inexpensive brushless outrunner that will turn a big prop. (something like this: http://www.maxxprod.com/pdf/HC2812-xxxx.pdf ~$60
  • Cut off the nose of the EGE and fashion a firewall to work with this motor.
  • Hollow out the inside of the nose to give clearance for the rotating motor can
  • It should not be a problem to find a yoke/spinner to match the size of an outrunner's motor shaft. (~$20)
  • Bite the bullet and buy a brushless ESC (~$35)
  • This should climb about twice as well as the stock setup, especially if I go 3S LiPo, and is not too bad.
  • Total: $115 (ouch)
Option 4:
  • REALLY bite the bullet.
  • Buy a brushless inrunner w/planetary gearbox (Such as this one: http://www.maxxprod.com/pdf/HB2815-xx33.pdf ($130)
  • Buy a brushless speed control ($35)
  • Have no problem getting a yoke/spinner to fit. ($25)
  • Add more tail weight to balance this beast? (the motor/gearbox weight 134 g (4.7 oz.)
  • I don't think I'll need this kind of weight, current draw, expense, or climb, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyhow.
  • Total: $190 (OUCH)
I'm trying to keep in mind that this is a thermal sailplane and not a hotliner, but I'd like to be able to climb to a few hundred feet in less than a few minutes...

Thanks for sticking with it until the end of the post!
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Old Mar 28, 2006, 01:54 PM
Registered User
Camarillo, CA
Joined Feb 2005
172 Posts
Life is always a series of compromises....IMHO if you want 40* climbouts, you need brushless power. This airplane really comes alive with brushless motors and lipos. Balance it with some additional battery behind the CG. Hog out the comparment to fit what you need. Put shredded foam w/expoxy to form what you need in the way of strength, tape the exterior with strapping tape to make it stronger, don't forget the tail group, I lost my first EGE on a high speen pullout. The great, slow flight character is a natural, and you can use the setup in other models. Outrunners like the AXI are a good choice, I use a 2820/10 in my Siren, I think they are on sale for $80 on line.

Make a good investment in the motor and ESC and you will use it many times over. They last much longer than cheaper componets.

BZ
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Old Mar 28, 2006, 09:17 PM
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manila
Joined Jun 2004
49 Posts
You can consider using a hyperion Y22L brushless (got this from Aircraft World), an MPI speed 400 gearbox (from Hobby Lobby) using 3:1 gear ratio, 8-cell 1050 NiMh and a 10x8 Graupner Cam folder.

I posted this set up and a pic of my easyG over here (post #9)

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=457921

If you want to use your stock gearbox, the Hyperion Y22L is a great drop in replacement for the stock speed 400

With my present set-up, she flies great, plenty of power but won't go vertical and hang on her prop if that's the kind of performance you're looking for. I find that having my throttle stick halfway is more than enough to allow me to fly to soaring altitude.
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Old Mar 29, 2006, 07:51 AM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
Whatever you do, don't put an 05-sized motor in a speed 400-sized model. You do not need a brushless motor to get a good climb rate.

Brushless may be overkill, but if you go with an outrunner, you eliminate the need GB, which sounds like it needs to be replaced anyway if it's a non-standard size.

Just more thoughts..
..a
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Old Mar 29, 2006, 08:04 AM
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steve ypsi mi's Avatar
ypsilanti mi
Joined Nov 2003
1,328 Posts
I use a 3 cell 1200 Mah and it is more than enough on the stock motor to get it up, in fact I use a little over half throttle to take off and climb, I would try to find a 3 cell from 1200 to 1800 mah to borrow for a test before I went thru all what you are talking about, do you have the brake set on the Jeti, I don't have a brake and I use the GWS rubber bands 2 of them over the prop to fold it, it does a fair job untill I get another speed controller with a brake
Heres a video where I flew it the first time, I wasn't trying to get it up fast
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...63#post5254782
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Old Mar 29, 2006, 08:42 AM
Hold my beer and watch this!
Jeremy Z's Avatar
Northern IL
Joined Oct 2005
2,380 Posts
This is good stuff guys.

magnus: I was unable to find the motor you refer to, and the aircraft world site I did find was not related to RC. I think it is pretty rare to find a brushless motor with a 2.3 mm output shaft, so this is well worth considering.

andy w: You mentioned that there is no need to go brushless, and that I should not put an 05 motor in it. Should I read between the lines and assume that you meant a 480 would be a good option?

steve: a 3 cell will certainly burn out a 6V speed 400 before too long, it is just a matter of time, and of how long one uses full throttle. One thing though, if I used a 3 cell at half throttle, that would be the same or less than my 8 cell (9.6 V) at full throttle, so it seems like it defeats the point. I would have power available for short bursts, and possibly a bit less weight...

So right now, I guess I'm leaning towards the small, light 650 kv, 150 W outrunner.

One other question: How does the pinion mount to the shaft of the speed 400? Friction? Setscrew? Am I going to be able to get this off of this motor and pressed onto another motor without special tools? I surely don't want to have to buy a pinion puller to mess around with brushed motors...
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Old Mar 29, 2006, 09:25 AM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
You'd need a pinion puller. No other way to do it right.

Yes, exactly, stick with 400-480 sized motors, brushles or brushless. 05 just too heavy. The outrunner, however, would be a good compromise..
..a
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Old Mar 29, 2006, 08:37 PM
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manila
Joined Jun 2004
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Jeremy - here's the web address:

http://aircraft-world.com/

It's a great site and their service is top notch. This forum is full of threads that talk about the quality of their service and their products.

The MPI gearbox I'm using offers three gear ratios - 2:1, 2.5:1 and 3:1. The gears are mounted on the shaft via a built-in set screw. For added security, I placed treadlock on the shaft and set screw hole before mounting it.
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Old Mar 29, 2006, 11:11 PM
Hold my beer and watch this!
Jeremy Z's Avatar
Northern IL
Joined Oct 2005
2,380 Posts
I'll look into that magnus. I think shipping from Japan may be a deal-killer though. Also, I'll have to think carefully (and run some numbers) before buying a gearbox and brushed motor, and compare it to a reasonably priced outrunner. I think I'm leaning that way now.

I could just save this stock geared setup for something else. Multiplex isn't ashamed to do it, why should I be?
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Old Mar 30, 2006, 03:16 AM
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manila
Joined Jun 2004
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Jeremy - I suggest that you send an email inquiry on the estimated costs for shipping. Aircraft world uses EMS and based on what I've read from the forums here, those who order from the US get their items faster than when they ordered from on-line hobby stores based in the US.

While the plane flies well with the stock set-up, going brushless will save you the problem of having to replace the motor everytime the brushes wear out.
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Old Mar 30, 2006, 05:26 AM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
I think aircraft-world has something like a $2.50 shipping charge!
..a
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Old Mar 30, 2006, 07:54 AM
Hold my beer and watch this!
Jeremy Z's Avatar
Northern IL
Joined Oct 2005
2,380 Posts
Wow, Aircraft-World's website is fantastic. Nothing is more frustrating that shopping for motors and not having enough data to go by. Their prices on Hyperion & Hacker are pretty good. I will think on this.
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Old Mar 30, 2006, 09:13 AM
I'm all about that bass
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
15,307 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Z
One other question: How does the pinion mount to the shaft of the speed 400? Friction? Setscrew? Am I going to be able to get this off of this motor and pressed onto another motor without special tools? I surely don't want to have to buy a pinion puller to mess around with brushed motors...
Dude, I am about as cheap as they come. But a pinion puller is only like 6 bucks.....

If you are going to use brushed motors, they are going to wear out. They will wear out before the GB. And you will need the pinion puller then.

Ryan
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Old Mar 30, 2006, 09:42 AM
I'm all about that bass
rdwoebke's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Feb 2004
15,307 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Z
Any spinner/yoke I bought would have to be a 3.2 mm unit drilled out to 9/64" or 3.5mm. I don't feel confident that this would be conducive to good balance or a good fit. I assume the Graupner folding props are a setscrew type fit?
Jeremy,

Not on some of the larger folders. For example, I have the Graupner 11x8. It does not use set screws, but a regular nut. Here is how it works. There is a nut on the front of the spiner and as you tigten it, it collapses the plate that the motor shaft goes into. Hard to explain. But it is not like some of the smaller graupners (like the Graupner 6x3 folder), where there are 2 set screws driven by a "hex driver" that go into the sides of the spinner and press against the shaft.

BTW, I don't like the setscrews. I always tend to over tighten them and then that ruins the little plastic that they screw into.

But, whatever you go with, good luck. Sounds like you have done your homework.

Ryan
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Old Jan 26, 2007, 03:38 PM
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Trisquire's Avatar
Columbus, OH
Joined Mar 2005
3,327 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwoebke
Dude, I am about as cheap as they come. But a pinion puller is only like 6 bucks.....

If you are going to use brushed motors, they are going to wear out. They will wear out before the GB. And you will need the pinion puller then.

Ryan
Ryan, Where did you find a 6 dollar pinion puller for speed 400s? Hobby Lobby wants $35.

Tom
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