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Old Oct 11, 2006, 06:51 AM
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bass3587's Avatar
Arlington,Texas
Joined Jan 2005
2,239 Posts
Loved the comments by the camera man. You know you can tell a J250 anywhere, it has that distinctive whine Mo I think it's time to put a hot cd-rom motor on her and reallylet it rip.
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Old Oct 11, 2006, 08:18 AM
Yep I got another one.
mohillbilly's Avatar
Springfield, Mo.
Joined Jan 2005
2,529 Posts
Na I like it like it is, and at 10oz. I'll take it to the slope yet still have power if I need it, I have a few spots picked out around here but a few are a total drop to the ocean so the motor will be nice. I have 2 of the small ones ready to build I a few cd-roms to throw on them. btw I still need at least one more J-250 I want to make a twin!

Mo.
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Old Oct 11, 2006, 02:36 PM
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Azeiku's Avatar
Minneapolis
Joined Aug 2003
215 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohillbilly
Na I like it like it is, and at 10oz. I'll take it to the slope yet still have power if I need it, I have a few spots picked out around here but a few are a total drop to the ocean so the motor will be nice. I have 2 of the small ones ready to build I a few cd-roms to throw on them. btw I still need at least one more J-250 I want to make a twin!

Mo.
They have a store here called Ax-man. They have little brushed motors there for cheap. Anyway I can tell if they are selling Johnson 250's? They have any distinct markings? Such as a sticker or anything like that? What kind of thrust do the 250s give?

Thanks!
Azeiku
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Old Oct 11, 2006, 05:00 PM
Drunk Pilot
Azeiku's Avatar
Minneapolis
Joined Aug 2003
215 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman2004
I don't think I can put the drawing out because some of these are commercial wings. Some are from downloaded plans. The acad drawing has the Unicorn, Slofly43, scramblur 250, frenzee, minispeedwing, snappy hlx, and Monsoon 28, but it also has plans built wings like Dazi and Spaggi (Coroplast wings), zagnutz, minizagnutz 50%+1, minizagnutz 50%+2, minizagnutz 50%+3, and of course 32"fff. I have notes on those that I have flown or modified too.
Ah, yeah, I guess I'll have to wait for that spreadsheet if you do decide to put it out here. I think it would be really handy for some of us newbies.

I don't understand the term 'minizagnutz 50%+2'. My guess from searching is that it is a minizagnutz plan reduced to only half the size and added 2 inches at the chord? Is that the zagnutz from this site but then the plans cut in half? Every dimension? Then, when you do do the 2" added... is it to just the chord or is it the tips too? Sorry if these are really dumb questions. I know I can't use the "Newb" excuse for too much longer but... I really would like to know. As a beginner do you suggest just going with the standard size ZagNutz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman2004
I have been trying to come up with a lightweight, highly maneuverable,wing that balances without adding much weight to the nose. Maybe a composite of several wings. One thing I have noticed is that most wings that have a high sweep angle are more stable, more forgiving in balance, and great gliders, while those with a shallow sweep are very aerobatic, have critical CG's, and are easier to get into trouble(can you say death spiral)
As for putting a spar in, all my wings have had either a wood dowel, arrowshaft, or carbon fiber tube in them, and if you can keep the weight down, you can usually control flutter.
If I get around to the spreadsheet I will post it here.
Cool! Thanks a ton. Yeah, that spreadsheet would be great to look at. Just your general opinion given about higher sweep angles make wings more stable is helpful. Did you notice if larger chord and larger wing tips also helps the stability? I would imagine so. I'm a beginner so I'm guessing a fairly high sweep angle would be better.

Thanks again!
Azeiku
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Old Oct 12, 2006, 05:35 PM
Wingman2004
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South Carolina
Joined Oct 2004
250 Posts
Azeiku,
To answer your first question, the minizagnutz wings were done by Bradm. He downsized all dimensions by half and added either 1', 2", or 3" to both the root and the tips, and they are not dumb questions I wondered the same thing myself. This was done to give sufficient area to the wing for lift. I had asked him which he liked better, and he said the +2 was his favorite. I have built the +2 and +3, and I agree. I had a slight problem with stall/spin (death spiral) in a high banked turn if I didnt keep the speed up, but it was great flying wing. Just not great for a beginner.
here is a link http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258263

The standard zagnutz is great for a beginner, just remember to keep weight down and get as strong a motor as you can. I simply prefer smaller wings because they are easier to transport.
Larger chord can help stability some, but can add a lot of drag. It usually causes the wing to have a flatter glide too. As for wing tips, I have tried large, small, fancy curved ones, and simple triangles. I don't usually perceive a big difference in them, just as long as they are there. I do usually allow about a third to be below the wing and two thirds above. I am attaching a picture of my minizagnutz50%+2 and you can see what I have been using.
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Old Oct 13, 2006, 02:20 PM
Drunk Pilot
Azeiku's Avatar
Minneapolis
Joined Aug 2003
215 Posts
Very cool!! Yeah, I'm still not sure what I should build. Maybe i should just do the regular Zagnutz first and then do a 50%+2 after. What I have successfully flown before is the SlowStick with stock 300 motor. I have also flown the GWS B2 bomber with the EDF 150s in it. That thing was a beast to get flying but she flew for about 10 min with a 2 cell 1250 lipo pack. I haven't used it since because I overdischarged my 2 cell. I'm going to try it again with a 3 cell to see how she performs.

I also built the 3DBatix Diablo and have a couple flights in on that. One good crash so far but nothing hot glue couldn't fix.

When I build one of these I'll put my CDrom motor in it with a 3 cell 1300 or 1350 lipo pack in it. Will that be enough? Or will this CDRom motor only work on the smaller size? I have a BP 2409-18 brushless from aero-nuts.com as well. That gives me vertical pullout on the Diablo at about 12.25 ounces AUW.

Thanks again for your help wingman2004. I would have just built the mini with 2 inches at the root only and not at the tip... then been wondering, "why doesn't this thing fly that well? I'm I that bad of a pilot."

THanks!
Azeiku
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Old Oct 13, 2006, 04:20 PM
Wingman2004
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South Carolina
Joined Oct 2004
250 Posts
I'm glad I could help. I'm afraid I don't have enough experience with different motors, so I can't advise you on that. Maybe someone else can chime in. By the way if you go the zagnutz route, dont forget that there are step by step directions. go here. http://home1.gte.net/texhills/page3.html
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Old Oct 13, 2006, 05:18 PM
Yep I got another one.
mohillbilly's Avatar
Springfield, Mo.
Joined Jan 2005
2,529 Posts
A cd rom will fly the 32" on here easy and well, so should work fine, I dknot know about the other motor. I have a 32 I built last night with a 18T 22m cd-rom on it I will maiden soon.


Mo.
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Old Oct 13, 2006, 05:37 PM
Drunk Pilot
Azeiku's Avatar
Minneapolis
Joined Aug 2003
215 Posts
32" meaning a cut down version of the full Zagnutz? Or the plan at the beginning of this monster thread? I'm assuming the one shown at the beginning of this thread. Have you built both? Which flies better?

Thanks!
Azeiku
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Last edited by Azeiku; Oct 13, 2006 at 05:44 PM.
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Old Oct 13, 2006, 07:46 PM
Yep I got another one.
mohillbilly's Avatar
Springfield, Mo.
Joined Jan 2005
2,529 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azeiku
32" meaning a cut down version of the full Zagnutz? Or the plan at the beginning of this monster thread? I'm assuming the one shown at the beginning of this thread. Have you built both? Which flies better?

Thanks!
Azeiku
Hard to say I built this 32" (my third) with a very thin airfoil also the 18T motor needs a bigger than 5X5 prop on a 3 cell. It was not very fast but flew well. My 42" flew GREAT on a 4X4 and a j-250 on 2 cells. So of this set my 42 is way better a real floater, but I bet that with a 12T rewind the 32 will be a rocket! My old 32 flew faster and better than a micro jet, but right now the micro jet has it beat.

Here are some pic's

Mo.
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Old Oct 13, 2006, 09:32 PM
Registered User
USA, NC, Trinity
Joined Oct 2006
16 Posts
I've read most of the posts here, and I am very new to this electric/wing flight stuff. So just a few quick questions... Are the electronics expensive? Motor/esc/servos/receiver? I would like to build a fairly fast, yet stable wing. It doesn't exactly have to go straight up, but good vertical pull would be nice. Next question, how do you keep from destroying the prop on landing? Thanks
John
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Old Oct 13, 2006, 10:16 PM
Yep I got another one.
mohillbilly's Avatar
Springfield, Mo.
Joined Jan 2005
2,529 Posts
Well if you know how to fly them its pretty easy but based by you not knowing about prices then I would say it might be a little harder. I would make either one of these but the bigger one would be easier to do cheaper I think. The electrics can be costly but keep pretty low. Here is what you need

1- Do you have a transmitter (controller)? if not a cheap one cost about $40
2- 1 receiver will run about $20 to 30 and $5-10 for the crystal.
3- 2 servos, hs-55's or gws naro, e-75's ect 8 to 10g servos.
4- motor and speed controller, simple brushed speed 400 with 10A controller $40 w/prop. or brush less cd-rom or out runner etc. and up to 30A ESC $40 - $100
5- battery nicd/nimh about 600mah $20, lipo 12c 1000mah (lighter) - $40 (plus charger)

So all depends on what you got or want to buy.
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Old Oct 14, 2006, 01:24 AM
Wing & A Prayer
sobamaflyer's Avatar
Mobile, Alabama
Joined Nov 2005
183 Posts
Johnnybronco, are you new to R/C flight entirely or just electric flight?
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Old Oct 14, 2006, 08:29 AM
Registered User
USA, NC, Trinity
Joined Oct 2006
16 Posts
No, no, just to electric flight. I have quite a few glow planes. Even some small 1/12 scale combat planes. Just looking for something 'quick' and cheap to put together...
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Old Oct 14, 2006, 10:15 AM
Drunk Pilot
Azeiku's Avatar
Minneapolis
Joined Aug 2003
215 Posts
If you have a radio from those you should be in good shape. That can be one of the big expenses. I'm guessing your glow planes have bigger servos. You might want micro servos as mohillbilly suggests. I bought some of the B-8 servo's at my local hobby shop for $10 a piece. But online you can get some tower pro's or dynams for $5.50-$8.90 a piece minus shipping. I got a brushless motor and 30A esc for $36 with free shipping from aero-nuts.com The motor is a cheap one but seems to work well on my 3D foamie.

-Azeiku
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