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Old Jan 31, 2007, 03:37 PM
Survival is Attitude!
Skonkworkstexas's Avatar
Hallsville Texas
Joined Aug 2005
2,235 Posts
I am debating buying a Twinjet.
I am flying a Himaxx motored Stryker, and I like the Stryker for being Stable when slow.
How does the TJ compare in slow speed stability?
Have had the Stryker get away at altitude, and pull both sticks back-hammerhead, no motor, and then she gets stable, so I don't crash.
Obviously at altitude.
How stable?
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Old Jan 31, 2007, 06:03 PM
Rochester, NY
JustGoFly's Avatar
United States, NY, Monroe
Joined May 2004
1,880 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skonkworkstexas
I am debating buying a Twinjet.
I am flying a Himaxx motored Stryker, and I like the Stryker for being Stable when slow.
How does the TJ compare in slow speed stability?
Have had the Stryker get away at altitude, and pull both sticks back-hammerhead, no motor, and then she gets stable, so I don't crash.
Obviously at altitude.
How stable?
I don't consider it a great slow fly airplane. Mine rolls like a demon on high rates, and it is not as easy to keep from whipping it in turns - as the stryker is. You have to be a decent R/C flyer to fly the TwinJet - but I think it handles extremely well and is very responsive. Some don't like to fly very responsive planes. I think the Stryker is alot less responsive. Imagine 3-4 rolls a second on high rates at some decent speed.

Typically a slow fly plane is light weight and my TJ weighs 2.5 lbs. For a 2.5lb airplane it does fly remarkably well at a slow rate. It stalls very nicely, which is to simply sink, and not roll and dive like alot of other planes. You might be able to set it up as a monoplane and build it light, but there are many other planes that will fly slow and have great manueverability. A stryker is very manueverable but could spin stall like alot of other planes would typically do. The TJ could actually high alpha at a very slow rate. The cool sound of the dual props make it sound fast at even a slow flying rate, but it's difficult to know exactly how slow you mean. Landing the TJ is a piece of cake and in my opinion I have never had a single concern about bringing it in. In the previously posted videos (end of #2) you can see that I land right at my feet. I REALLY enjoy my TwinJet and it is a very impressive plane to watch fly as well. I have purchased a second one to setup with a hugely powerful single motor and intend to run it on 6S-8S. I know at the Neat Fair my TJ was the fastest TJ there, but the new one will be without question, the fastest one around. I had fun when one guy challenged me to a race - and I was running 7x5 props, normally I'd run 7x7's.

To do extreme high alpha you want to mount the motors facing down a few degrees. This will not be good for high speed since it will make the plane climb and you'd be constantly correcting on full throttle. I mount mine now perpendicular to the thrust line. Ideally someone would design a mounting plate that moved a couple notches to do extremely slow high alpha touring, then notch it flat for high speed. I think that would be extremely cool.

Enjoy,
Vinnie
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Old Jan 31, 2007, 10:15 PM
Crooooo-ow!
Zredd's Avatar
Joined Jul 2006
57 Posts
On stock motors and props, and low rates, the TJ is a pussycat (a tired one even). It shouldn't be any harder to fly than well powered Space Scooter

You can still get up speed going downwind/downhill/high-throttle if you get the need for speed

5x5 props gets a bit more adrenaline flowing, but don't expect much on brushed cans.

I think the TJ is a good 'jet' trainer, it's big, can fly relatively slow, and stalls gently. Landings are a snap, line it up, dead stick, keep the nose level (a little down) till just above ground then ease in the elevator to slow (do all Multiplex planes land that way?)

Elapor foam is the toughest stuff around. Two 15C 1350's provide plenty of current for a 8 min flight while keeping it light. The thick wings provide plenty of lift, I don't have a problem hand launching at about 60% throttle, just a good wing-level chuck with a little up

Plus it's cheap, can be gotten for $60- (got mine for $40 at the AMA show), and that includes the two 480 motors.

At higher rates, rolls are scary fast, and flying tight cirles full throttle is a hoot. When my 480's wear out, it's brushless time

I have seen Strykers fly super slow, haven't flown one,
but the TJ flys about as slow as a typical sport plane. As long as you keep the nose down, it will not stall, just loses altitude until you hit power
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Old Jan 31, 2007, 10:37 PM
CAP 232-aholic
DiabloKid's Avatar
Centreville, VA
Joined Jan 2003
1,386 Posts
I retired mine and during its entire lifespan I flew it brushed with 7.2 volt speed 400's on a 3s 2100 lipo and it was a hoot. I have had it since the times of running 8 cell nicads was considered high tech

In stock form it still is a fun airplane and like stated before, climb up a bit, drop the nose and power it full on and enjoy the frills of a speed run

Great airplane in stock form to learn to handle speed and get accustomed to flying these types of aircraft
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Old Feb 01, 2007, 08:12 AM
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gilford, new hampshire, usa
Joined Nov 2003
825 Posts
I converted mine to a monojet right off and put on a geared feigao (S2?) from BP Hobbies and it flew strong steady and slowly! I needed a little more throw and the upcurved elevons were a real PIA! Give it throttle and nose way up. My downfall was thinking that a pusher would stay put on the stick mount sans screw - come out of a loop at 100 feet up and cut the throttle and the motor came right off changing the CG markedly forward and down she came like a lawn dart - compressed the nose a half inch, that was all (she's got a carbon arrow shaft in place of that silly balsa beam) - side of the field was marshy and freezing so never found the motor. I boiled out the nose and I now have a 2408-21 brushless on it with a 9x7 prop and 3s 1300 mah ready to go as soon as it warms up a bit. I have also bent the elevons flat and if that does not work I'll put on balsa or foam flat elevons. The wing is thick and a bit undercambered so that may be part of the problem, may have to give it some downthrust too.
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Old Feb 02, 2007, 12:33 PM
Survival is Attitude!
Skonkworkstexas's Avatar
Hallsville Texas
Joined Aug 2005
2,235 Posts
Sounds good if I am understanding right. The Stryker can always be crashed.
However, for example, I tried a microjet, and it is a jet you cannot take your eyes off for one second it goes in. I will fly WOT awhile on the Stryker, and then throttle back at 800 plus feet, and relax awhile, then PUNCh for some more. I can blink when a Stryker is slow, and have it where I think it should be an instant later.
Now WOT is another story. The roll rate is also slow on the Stryker to me.
The TJ sounds like agood next step beyond the Stryker. Is that an accurate statement?
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Old Feb 02, 2007, 03:28 PM
Rochester, NY
JustGoFly's Avatar
United States, NY, Monroe
Joined May 2004
1,880 Posts
Skonkworkstexas - If you flew the MicroJet for more than 10 seconds - you can handle the TwinJet. They look alike, but that is where the comparison ends. The TJ flys much nicer than the MJ and can be flown much slower - although won't come near the top end speed of the MJ. I have not seen a single post from a TJ owner that reported that they disliked it. It seems the life span of a MJ is pretty short. You see lots of guys buying their second, third fourth MJ, but the TJ will last you a very long time. I bought a second - but my first still runs perfectly. I crashed the TJ once when one of the props came off and I was doing dog slow high alpha at about 20 feet and didn't realize when the power was dropping so rapidly at low throttle.

I look at the Styker as a beginner plane - this was my reasoning for saying the TJ was not a good upgrade. But if you've flown the MJ - then you certainly have the skills for a TJ.

I might build a tiny glider and rig a hookup to tow the glider into the clouds and release it for someone to fly to the ground. The thrust I have on the TJ is close to 2:1 so I can go straight up and make a release of the glider. Ideally it would be a glider that has wings that can pop open. Does anyone have an idea of something I could use ?

Enjoy,
Vinnie
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Old Feb 02, 2007, 03:45 PM
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gilford, new hampshire, usa
Joined Nov 2003
825 Posts
I have a microjet also and it is set up with the gws 15t brushless and a light 3S lipo. It came in 100 gms under the stock wet wt. (that must have been figured with Nicads). It launches like a dream at that wt. (and I have set the throws less times 2 I think and it is a lot more comfortable to fly with more gentle throws). Low fast passes and punch it for a rolling climbout! Twinjet -monojet flies like the ponderous mother ship compared to that. I think the microjet has a much thinner and more symmetrical wing than the TJ.
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Old Feb 02, 2007, 04:32 PM
Survival is Attitude!
Skonkworkstexas's Avatar
Hallsville Texas
Joined Aug 2005
2,235 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustGoFly
Skonkworkstexas - If you flew the MicroJet for more than 10 seconds - you can handle the TwinJet. They look alike, but that is where the comparison ends. The TJ flys much nicer than the MJ and can be flown much slower - although won't come near the top end speed of the MJ. I have not seen a single post from a TJ owner that reported that they disliked it. It seems the life span of a MJ is pretty short. You see lots of guys buying their second, third fourth MJ, but the TJ will last you a very long time. I bought a second - but my first still runs perfectly. I crashed the TJ once when one of the props came off and I was doing dog slow high alpha at about 20 feet and didn't realize when the power was dropping so rapidly at low throttle.

I look at the Styker as a beginner plane - this was my reasoning for saying the TJ was not a good upgrade. But if you've flown the MJ - then you certainly have the skills for a TJ.

I might build a tiny glider and rig a hookup to tow the glider into the clouds and release it for someone to fly to the ground. The thrust I have on the TJ is close to 2:1 so I can go straight up and make a release of the glider. Ideally it would be a glider that has wings that can pop open. Does anyone have an idea of something I could use ?

Enjoy,
Vinnie
Yeah, the MJ was my first really big scare. I was attempting to use it as a trainer to transition into an ALFA F86. Can yoy believe that! RVincent showed me the error of my ways and in comes the Stryker. Now the Stryker is sometimes too ho hum. The way I am propped I have unlimited vertical, but probably dont break 70 MPH. Now my friends say fly the Sabre, and I intend to, but I am looking for something much hotter-enter TJ.
The MJ I got where I could move it around the field, but not like the Stryker.
She would auger in if I tried.
So I am deciding between the Twinjet, and Funjet. I think I could probably get more raw speed and thrust from a twin.
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Old Feb 02, 2007, 09:54 PM
More props are better than One
TaSaJaRa's Avatar
United States, AL
Joined Nov 2004
2,163 Posts
Still loving my TJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skonkworkstexas
So I am deciding between the Twinjet, and Funjet. I think I could probably get more raw speed and thrust from a twin.
Not sure as speed goes between the TJ and FJ.The vertical climb is very nice and hard to bet with the twin. I like my TJ with Dual 450TH motors. I think it is 90+ last time we checked. I could prop it larger but I like the mix between nice speed and longer flights. It has GREAT vertical, But the way twin 450's sound at over 25,000 rpm is music to my ears. You can slow it down pretty good. But hey it's a Jet... The only time it may tend to get a little away is when I do to many rolls to fast. I have come out thinking I was right side up only to find I was inverted. That makes for a bad feeling when you miss a nose in at arround 8' and 65+mph... Either way you could put the throws down to make it more forgiving. And turn it up once you get use to it.

They are a lot of fun...
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Old Feb 03, 2007, 08:41 AM
Survival is Attitude!
Skonkworkstexas's Avatar
Hallsville Texas
Joined Aug 2005
2,235 Posts
Yeah, thats a feeling when you dont know which end is up! Been there done that!
Where the MJ would get away from me is its small size! I would hold in close in, but she gets small in a hurry, then WHAM! in she goes! Roll in in a turn!
Too sensitive, but if you dial too far back, tears up in the slow!
The mothership sounds like the way to go!
JustGoFly, the setup you have sounds like a hoot! Will have to try a pair!
2/1 at 101 MPH is WILD! I mean we have been spoilt on 60 or 70 at 1.0000000001/1! LOL!
THe old gas jocks have ribbed us for years, and this pittance of a Stryker I build has them kinda reeling! A 2/1 101 TJII would have them wondering if we were vampires or something!
"Pleased to meet ya! Hope ya guess my name!
Sorry, little Rolling Stones humor!
Actually, I will roll on the level in my routine, snap rool on the vertical, but when I point down I make sure I am very level. I often adjust to straight down, a gentle pullout into about a 700 foot loop, and over the topinto completing the loop, or roll over and repeat. Then vertical until you can barely see the lighting, power off for some glide and rest at near 1000 feet, repeat. I can see at distance great, its bifocals for reading!
Question. Multiplex USA shows TJ is 400 motors, Towerhobbies shows 480 motors, which one is it? The 480s would be a hoot on my 3S Lipo T-Hawks.
Yes, they still do Yeoman duty! In fact I have offered use to my wingman to prove or disapprove an intermittant reciever that may have cost him a V diamond jet! Yeah, feed it to the THawk!
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Old Feb 03, 2007, 09:13 AM
Survival is Attitude!
Skonkworkstexas's Avatar
Hallsville Texas
Joined Aug 2005
2,235 Posts
JustGoFly, where can I find the motor specs on those nice motors for MotoCalc? You know, Io, Rm, Kv?
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Old Feb 03, 2007, 12:27 PM
Rochester, NY
JustGoFly's Avatar
United States, NY, Monroe
Joined May 2004
1,880 Posts
Skonk - I've been meaning to post them. Email me and I'll dig them up. I'm out working with Kids at Robotics right now and have an all day FunFly tomorrow, but I'll get them later tonight.

My experience with the MicroJet was not a good one. First flight she took off perfectly verticle at about 90-100 mph. I obviously overpowered it and it disappeared in a couple seconds. When it went into the clouds a buddy standing next to me says - "don't ya think you should bring it back". I was in awe ! So I killed power and it came back into view. I pulled back on the stick and she kept coming straight down. I gave it a little power and pull back and already both servos had stripped so she drilled into the earth. I have a wreckage scene photo somewhere on this forum. I learned about higher torque servos and didn't make this mistake on the TJ - using 56 oz torque servo's has never failed me.

Repaired - second flight - took off, circled the park at about half throttle, was having some serious high speed fun. I tried an aileron roll and it rolled so fast I couldn't believe it. I stopped perfectly level. It was about 100 feet up and not large enough to know how it was oriented - so to figure out orientation I pull back and it went nose down - holy moly she was upside down. Now going 25 feet above the ground away from me. 2 seconds is not very long on a bullet. She was now a dot and no way I could tell if it was coming or going. So I kill the motors and glide it in - or so I thought. Found it about 1/4 a mile away nose first plugged into the mud about 14 inches -no damage.

Third flight is on YouTube - search "JustGoFly MicroJet" - you'll see my crash. The MJ made me feel like a newbie - but is a challenge I will master.

Bought another and have it on the bench but not a high priority. I'll master it but I think the MJ begs for less power and lighter weight. The TJ can handle higher weight and lots of power.

Skonk - constants on 500TH are posted - I plan on converting my 450T to 500T before the weather gets nicer. Use those for now.

This is slow fly season for me. Flying indoors is a welcome part of the flying season - so something that can fly really slow is my focus for the next couple of months. I'm working on a Depron F15 that should be interesting.

Vinnie
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Old Feb 03, 2007, 01:11 PM
Survival is Attitude!
Skonkworkstexas's Avatar
Hallsville Texas
Joined Aug 2005
2,235 Posts
Vinnie,
Simular sad story. I buy a microjet for the fact that it is elapur, under 40 bux, and a fast trainer, to transition to Alfa F-86.
First and second launches, touchdown.
Third launch, I run 6 inches over the ground, build speed, go for altitude. Roll rate way to high, go to low rate, throttle back, attempt turn. Not enough roll rate, go to higher rate as plane augers in, throttle and yank! Barely pulls out, and starts blowin around the field like a Hellfire Missle, with me hangin on for dear life. Trying to opren the "slot" to land, cause I am demoralized and worn out. Snap roll in a turn great distance and altitude, try to pull out and worsten the fix. Cut power, scatter plane. Found the battery, motor, and half a reciever 20 feet from the wreckage.
Actually superglued the thing back. first flight=1 to 2 minutes TOPS....maybe less.
Every other flight, SPLAT! after the fifth or sixth crash, it is a bent mass that is somewhat bent simular to a corkscrew. Flies like the X1, and I never wanted to be Chuck Yeager. Launch it and she runs up to 40 miles per and starts a buffet all over.
I debate trying over with a fresh one, but just have no fun, but work flying her. A plane that works you, then you can funfly a little, then work.Thats a babe!
Through the stryker, I have had a field day! Starting to get boring, but has its time for sure! Have explored with a Stryker and learned much.
Did you know........Buzzards are very manuverable when scared half to death?!?!?
Did you know........Sparrows will fly level at 60 miles per when equally scared!!!!
Ho Hum!
Dave (Skonk)
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Old Feb 03, 2007, 07:04 PM
More props are better than One
TaSaJaRa's Avatar
United States, AL
Joined Nov 2004
2,163 Posts
TJ for sure...

Yeah the TJ is much easier to see than the smaller MJ. Just make sure when doing the rolls at the speed of a top be up high to be able to correct when you end up the wrong way you wanted.

The 450TH sounds great and does very well. I use 2 3s 2100 15-20 c batteries.
With a 5.5x2.5 apc sport it pulls about 56amps static. It may unload a bit once it the air. With a couple of 32-35 amp esc's and a Bec you all set.

I think if you wanted to spring for the 500th it would be a real screamer.
4s on dual 500th with a 4.2 x 4.1 should do well over 100mph.
Not only does it get the gassers turning there heads but it tends to make them mad if you blow by a few.

I give them fits with a blue cor pylon plane running a 500th on a 5.7x3 3s 2100. They can just about catch me with the Quickie 500 on the straight. But then I roll it over and yank I am then 6 planes ahead. Time for them to try to catch up again.

Either way you go you cant go wrong with the 450th or 500th. I have 2 500th's and 4 of the 450's motors all doing very well. Geared and direct drive.

Later ...Craig
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