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Old Mar 20, 2006, 09:44 AM
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HoneyBee CP2 & Blade CP Mods, Repair, Upgrades and Fixes - Winter 06 thru Jan 08

I created a this new thread for postings of common problems, fixes and modifications for the Honeybee CP2 and Blade CP. This includes how to balance out your heli to fly easily, tail-rotor solutions, 4 in 1 mods and brushkess main motor modifications. So post your link or solutions here so we share the wealth of knowledge on these fun micro helicopters.

Now this thread is spreading to also talk about the Esky King V2 belt drive helicopter (starting on page 65)

Good Luck and Happy Flying!
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 09:47 AM
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Protection for your 4 in 1 controller (to keep from burning it out in a crash or when your motor finally does wear out)


Here is the forum discussion and feedback:
Protection for your 4 in 1 controllerhttp://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=472793

Fuses saved my rx today http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=483824

Burned up your 4 in 1 because you didnt apply the fuse mod? Here are links to get you a new one:
Cp2 4in1 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=481108
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.
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 09:50 AM
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Below is the PDF file to inexpensivly upgrade of your Blade CP or Honey Bee CP2 to a brushless main motor

From looking at all the posts it would appear that a brushless motor in the 2800-3800KV range have received the best success (8 or 9 tooth pinions). Which provides a head speed in the 2000-2600 range. Stock headspeed of the CP or CP2 on 3 cell lipos is 1700RPM. Max labeled headspeed recommended for carbon fiber blades is 2400RPM (Esky Manufacturing) The 4100KV motors are pretty hot and almost need a 7 tooth pinon to run on a 3 cell lipo or you need to upgrade to a programmable transmitter. My personal favorite for a bit more power is a 3600kv motor with a 8 tooth pinion, using the standard transmitter- run times is about the same as the standard motor or slightly longer

Update 14 April 2006- After much furthur testing here is the lastest results. A 4100KV or 3600KV motor is fine if you have a computer programmable radio. If you are using the stock transmitter (like I am) then try the 3200KV motor from Venon (its an add on to the 3D Ranger and runs about 39 dollars http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXLZA4&P=7). I like this set up with a 9 tooth pinion, as it will give you more performance and about a 20 percent increase in flight time per battery pack. The motor is slightly longer so you will have to trim the canopy just a little bit- but the best part with this motor is that when you go to full up collective the motor won't bog down so you always have power in reserve.
The other setup that we found that works great (if your using your stock transmitter) is the Hi-Max 2015 2800KV motor with a 11 or 12 pitch pinion. Use the 11 pitch pinion if you want the same performance as your stock motor (great for hovering in the house and practicing precision landings) or the 12 pitch pinion gives you much more power and you still get the 20 percent longer flight time per battery pack. If you have questions- Email me for more information at Scott.Helmann@us.army.mil


22 Apr 06 Update- Well if you are using the stock transmitter (like I am) then I think you will be most pleased with the 3200KV motor from Venon (its an add on to the 3D Ranger and runs about 39 dollars http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXLZA4&P=7). ] If you want your heli to fly just like it did on the stock motor- use an 8 tooth pinion (great for flying indoors). It uses less current (you get longer run times) and the motor won't bog down at higher collective settings like the stock motor (tested with 8, 9 or 10 tooth pinions). If you want more performance for flying outdoors and dramatically increased responsiveness then go to a 9 tooth pinion. Then if your looking for really high and crazy 3D performance you can use a 10 tooth pinion. Of all the brushelss setups I have tested and tried for the Blade CP or Honeybee CP2 this is my number one pick!

If you looking for a "plug and play" (although it is about twice as expensive) upgrade you can check out these links:

Brushless Blade E Z Upgrade
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=434477

To find the board that converts the motor output signal (Main or tail) from your 4 in 1 to a signal that a brushless motor controller can run from (no soldering required) check out:

Painless Brushless Upgrade
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430386

How do I go Brushless w/ CP2 ? http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=486223

Going brushelss with a heli-radio to avoid hacking your 4 in 1
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508553



Update 02 October 2007:



Easiest upgrade:
Try the Esky 3100KV motor EK5-0004 from helidirect.com . If you want just a little bit more performance (and much longer flight times) that the standard brushed motor use a 9 tooth pinion (1900-2000RPM). I prefer a 10 tooth pinion for 2300-2400 RPM for more performance. It mounts with the same screws as the standard motor so installation is quick and easy. Helidirect has it for 19.99. http://www.helidirect.com/product_i...roducts_id=1609, the Castle Creations Pheonix 10 ESC works extremely well with this motor.

Then there is my other CP2 which is using a Himax 3600 HA2015 motor with a 9 tooth pinion. (Rotor RPM 2100-2400) With the ESC brake set to off this will almost autorotate with no other changes or modifications. (using a Pheonix 10 ESC from castle creations- get them on ebay for 24-30 bucks) Temp after 10-12 minutes of continious flight gives about 127-134 degrees.

When you get proficient with your CP2 or Blade CP/CP Pro you might want to consider looking at the Esky King V2. Talk about a nice and smooth flying helicopter. Its just a little bit bigger but an very economical helicopter to step up to for a nice flier. WWW.Heli-fever.com has them as a bare bones setup (no electronics) for only $61, www.helidirect.com has them for about $80 or you can get them as an entire kit but you will want to do the brushless motor mod right away.


-Scott


Latest Update- 27 December 2007

Here is some updated information about motor and ESC choices after flying my fleet of Blade/ Honeybee CP2 as well as my King V2 Helicopters over the last few years:


Brushless Motors for the Blade, Blade CP Pro, Esky Honeybee CP2:


By far the easiest upgrade is to find a 40 gram Esky EK5-0004 3100kv brushless motor.
It will mount directly in place of your brushed motor with the same screws and no modification required to the frame of your helicopter.
No heat sinks are required and in flight current is about 5 amps. You can find this motor for less than $30 from helidirect.com or on Ebay.
Pair it up with a 10 tooth pinion for spirited performance and a main rotor speed of 2000 to 2150. In tests after 8 minutes of strong flight the motor is only a cool 120 degrees.

If you want to maximize your flight time (per charge) a great choices is the HiMax HA2015-3600kv motor with a 9 tooth pinion.
This motor is the most efficient I have found so far (paired with a 9 tooth pinion gear you can expect Rotor RPM to be right at 2150 to 2250 RPM)
This motor setup will require some different metric mounting screws (Make sure they are not too long- I had to cut mine down to the right length),
And I used some small washers between the frame and the motor to keep it level and sitting in the proper position.
Be sure to use Aluminum heat sinks to keep your motor running cool. I just reused the heat sinks from several old brushed motors and they worked great!
With 3 heat sinks and after 8 minutes of nonstop flight I get temps in the 140-145 degree range. Quite acceptable!

My other current favorite motor (really good choice if your heli is a bit heavier than most) is the
Eflight Hacker E-series E3-37 3700KV motor with a 9 tooth pinion.
This motor uses the standard motor mount screws that you used with your old brushed motor. A 9 tooth pinion will give you a Rotor Rpm of 2100-2200.
A couple of Heat sinks are a good idea is order to keep this motor running cool. Just use a couple from an old brushed motor and expand/compress them until they fit tightly.
With two old heat sinks installed and after 8 minutes of aggressive flight I get temps in the 140-145 degree range. Again quite acceptable!

Some good to know Reference information:
Normal brushed motor rotor head RPM is 1800-1950. I would not recommend exceeding rotor speeds above 2400RPM as the blades and parts on these micro helicopters are not designed to withstand stresses above these speeds.
There have been accidents and injuries so always be careful!


Electronic Speed Controllers for the Blade, Blade CP Pro, Esky Honeybee CP2;

With all three of these motors installed in your heli your current draw from your battery will be in the 4-7amp range so you will need a 10AMP esc.
Pretty much any ESC will work. For the Esky motor the Castle Creations Phoenix 10 gave much smoother performance and would have to be my favorite ESC for both helis and airplanes.
If you are looking to keep your costs down you can find them on eBay for about $30.




Brushless Motors for the Esky King V2

I have tried a number of different motors (Venom, Hyperion and others) and the two that I keep coming back to for my Esky Kings are:

The Esky EK5-0005 which is a 40 gram 3900 KV outrunner and its cost is only about $30. This motor temps out after 8 minutes of continuous flying at a modest 125 Degrees.
It uses the standard motor screws to mount to the frame. Use it with a 9 tooth pinion for a rotor speed of 2200 to 2300 RPM

Another great choice with a little more reserve power is the Esky EK5-0006. It is a 58 gram 3800 KV motor. Match it up with a 9 tooth pinion for a rotor head speed of 2250 to 2350 RPM
You will need to use your dremel tool to reshape the King frame mount area to get this motor to match up with the mount. It mounts with the standard brushed motor screws.

With either of these motors you will want an ESC in the 25 Amp range. I prefer the Castle creations Phoenix ESCs as I really like the programmability of them and they work great with all motors.
You can find them on Ebay for a decent price. The Esky ESCs reportedly work great too.



Radio Upgrades:

In all my testing so far- nothing beats the Spektrum DX7 radio with an AR6100 receiver, combined with DS285 digital servos for very fine and precise control- the best I have tested yet!
Itís small, light and easy to install, Wonderful radio system with Zero glitches no matter where you are flying!
I have now converted all 5 of the helis to this setup.


Good Luck and Happy Flying!

SSG Scott (actually I have been promoted and am now SFC Scott and am still serving in the US Army National Guard). Thanks for your support!
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 09:54 AM
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This is the link to the discussion about standard tail rotor motor, twin tail rotor motos and GWS direct drive tail rotor setup. It should help point you in the right direction!

GWS Direct Drive: How Good is It?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492222

29 Apr 06- My Highest recommendation (passing the test of time on 3 different micro helis) goes to the twin tail motor setup. This lasts longer and manages to eliminate the tail rotor problems and concerns so you can spend your time perfecting your flying!
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 09:55 AM
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Here it is-I finally have it finished (1 May 2006 version). This is the PDF file that explains
How to Balance Your Blades, Rotor Head, Tail Rotor and your helicoptor itself. If you do all these things you will have a heli that will hover in place (Hands Off) for short periods of time and will be much easier to fly and control. This is the culmination of all my years experience working on military helicoptors applied to the micro helis we all love to fly.

Good Luck and Happy Flying!

-Scott
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by SSG Scott
This is from a discussion about accidently running your pack down too far when flying:

Information on a Battery Monitor that mounts to the side of your 4 in 1

I slowly ruined several battery packs by over discharging them. Costly to say the least!

So here is a solution- we took a volt watch (little 3 gram module that you can stick on the side of your 4 in 1) and redesigned it for lipo use. Now I get bright green lights, and as the battery slowly depleates the LED will move down the scale until it hits 9.2 volts when it shows red and then goes very bright red at 9.1 volts. Its easy to see from a long way away both inside and outside. It has 7 LEDs of different colors so you can always know your battery status while flying.

Check out the PDF file below for details and full photos.


It turns out that you can also use the voltwatch type unit to tell you about your battery packs (if you have a weak cell or charging problems) as well as if you are overtemping your battery or drawing too much current (which shortens your battery packs life). It also has provided a means to often detect a main motor that is just about to fail before the failure occurs due to worn out brushes or an overheated and shorted winding. And finally it also serves as a way to check to see if you have too much pitch in your rotor blades resulting in a difficult and inefficient helicoptor that is not flying well.

It comes with a pass through JST connector (or no connector if your prefer) and works with any 11.1 volt 3 cell lipo pack.

If you interested we now have them for sale! $16.50 per module $3 shipping. Just let us know the connector type, How you would like to pay (Paypal preferred) and where you want it shipped to!

Pricing- $16.50 per battery module.
3 day fast shipping is $3.50 per order.
Just email us and we will send you a paypal invoice today!



Update 27 Jun 06: We just shipped our 100th Battery Monitor- thanks to everyone for making them such a success! We have users in Sweden, UK, Germany and as far away as South American and even Iraq!


Good Luck and Happy Flying

-SSG Scott

ScottHelmann@msn.com (For orders and Paypal account name) or we can invoice you - we just need your paypal/email name.


Here is a photo and the information sheet on the multipurpose battery monitor
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 10:04 AM
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This is the link to the discussion about using the heaver duty E-sky King 370 motor in your Blade CP or CP2. It also give you a link to other motor sources like Great Planes T-370 motor which is probably available at your local hobby store.

Discussion - Honey bee cp2 and Blade cp owners.. Using King 370 motor...http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492133
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 10:10 AM
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This link talks about- That little read light on your 4 In 1. What is it telling you when it is on:

Question - Blade CP: 4 in 1 red light on during flight
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=493895
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 10:11 AM
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Super Skids for your Blade CP and Honeybee CP2 - here is the info:

Super Skids for Blade CP
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=490352
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 10:19 AM
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Discussion about using Carbon Fiber blades on your Blade CP or Honeybee CP2

Is there any reason not to go to carbon fiber blade for the blade cp?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492823


Here is the link to the new Plastic Blades- they are a bit heavier but the word is they are pretty tough too!

Plasti-blades available for purchase
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=487007
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 10:22 AM
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Here is a discussion on favorite Lipo batteries for use on the Blade CP and Honeybee CP2

Favorite LiPo for BCP or HB CP2?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=489932

Anyone use the E-Power 11.1V 1300mAH 3S Li-Po Battery?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=485129
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 10:25 AM
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Here is more information about other brushless motor options for the Blade CP and Honeybee CP2

Brushless for the Blade: How do I Do It?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492650

Brushless Motors- choosing the right one discussion:
GoBrushless motor for BCP/CP2
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=480405
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 10:29 AM
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Information about the Bell Hiller upgrade for the Blade CP (The Esky Honeybee CP2 already has this built into its design)

Bell-Hiller upgrade w/ video
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=486129
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 10:31 AM
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Popular method of learning to fly your Blade CP or Honeybee CP2

Radd's school of rotary flight
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=491345
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 10:33 AM
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Dicussion on the CNC (all metal) rotor heads for the Blade and the Honeybee

blade cp. complete cnc head.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=475779
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