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Old Mar 08, 2006, 05:58 AM
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Melbourne
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New Pike Perfect

For those interested, some information on the new pike perfect has been put on the samba website.

http://www.f3j.com/perfect.htm

Looks like a beauty

cheers Brad
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 06:08 AM
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TO ME....looks just like one of a thousand others. You can stop working overtime....the clones have won.....

erich
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 06:19 AM
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woops just saw it has already been posted.
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Last edited by bwilman; Mar 08, 2006 at 06:26 AM.
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erich
TO ME....looks just like one of a thousand others. You can stop working overtime....the clones have won.....

erich
Actually a good comment. On a picture they all look very similar.
For the normal pilot that does not have any big thinking about winning anything, the F3X planes last 20years have been very much the same.
But what has changed a bit is handling and difference in performance versus tasks. So the main difference is airfoil, airfoil transition, strength and weight/size. These are all things it is difficult to show in pictures.

Regards Jojo
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 01:51 PM
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Have you flown your Perfect Jo? Can you give us a neutral comment?
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuomo
Have you flown your Perfect Jo? Can you give us a neutral comment?
Nope. On its way somewhere in Europe.
Actually I think you will see that I will comment what I find both on the Pike Perfect and Supra (the two biggest news this year up untill now I think). I think I will be fairly neutral.
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 04:17 PM
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It is kind of like top of the line jet fighters for the Soviets and Americans, for a certain period, two vertical stabs, modified delta, big efficient engines. To me the Perfect has a wing planform somewhat similar to an Icon, and a fuse similar to a Sharon, but to a certain degree thaty all do. Like Jo said, the wing planform, airfoil selection, and control surface sizing is all a part of it, and lets face it, you sure cannot come anywhere close to seeingthe tweaks and design decision that are there. I think that the real test is how well will it hang in nothing, can it hang with the Supra? They all go fast and they all cruise very well. Just like the Supra, I will let others experiment.

Marc

Jo Jo, glue those servos in right though, Philip was lucky on that one.
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 04:25 PM
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Redmond, Washington, USA
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Philip Kolb's essay on the Perfect's design philosophy reminds me somewhat of the Icon design: large wing area, moderate aspect ratio, deep chord. I'm no expert on aerodynamic design, but the Icon wing also seems to me to be somewhat elliptical. Philip also makes the comment that the Perfect's airfoil is designed with a "a reasonable thickness for lightweight, strong, and stiff wing structure". Does this mean a departure from the ever-thinner airfoils that we have been seeing the last few years? The Icon airfoil is quite thick; you can put a DS3421 in the flap servo well, and still have almost 1/2" to spare! In fact, you have to build up the servo base with balsa to get it flush with the bottom of the wing.

So, in some ways, from my layman's point of view, the Perfect sounds to me like a return to some good ideas that have been around for a while. I'd really like to hear some of you more knowledgeable guys comment on this.

--Jim
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 05:55 PM
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The fuse reminds me of a Harley Michaelis design. . .

The Icon and Perfect have some notable differences and some similarities. For reference I've included the Supra specs.

Aspect Ratio
Icon ~14.7
Perfect ~16.8
Supra ~17.1

Root thickness
Icon 8.98%
Perfect ~8.75% (eyeballed from the website)
Supra 8.0%

Tip Thickness
Icon - not sure but I recall it gets quite thin ~7%
Perfect - 7.5% (again - estimated from the pics)
Supra 6.5% (at the very tip - it is 7.3% a few inches inboard)

Span
Icon 130" (3.3 m)
Perfect 139.76" (3.55 m)
Supra 133.86" (3.4 m)

Area
Icon 1150 in^2
Perfect 1161 in^2
Supra 1052 in^2

Weight
Icon 78 ounces (2211 g) (from website I think there are lighter examples)
Perfect 74 ounces (2100 g)
Supra 60 ounces (1700 g)

Wing loading
Icon 9.77 oz/sqft
Perfect 9.18 oz/sqft
Supra 8.21 oz/sqft

You can draw your own conclusions.

I will say that the Perfect does look promising and Philip has made some good design decisions that I think will give excellent performance for a variety of conditions.

Tom
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 06:14 PM
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Good comparisons to look at Tom.

Marc
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Old Mar 09, 2006, 12:12 AM
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Jyvaskyla, Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiesling
The fuse reminds me of a Harley Michaelis design. . .
...and not too different from Sharon Pro.

I see some similarities between Supra and Perfect wing planforms. They stand out from other F3J planes by having only very small amount of LE sweep.

From practical point of view the rather thick airfoil is a benefit. More space for servos and stronger spar - having a stiff wing can also better launch performance considereably. Perfect has also nice roomy fuselage compared to many other planes.

Anyway, ultimately there is the question of how big the improvements can be. Currently most of the top quality F3J planes have almost equal performance, making trimming the single most important performance factor. I would say there atre 10 or 15 different planes available that can win the WC in right hands.

Anyway, I like Perfect and might want to try it
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Old Mar 09, 2006, 12:24 AM
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Both Erich and Jojoen make valid points. As the optimum planform has evolved the individual differences become far more subtle. Even as a decidedly noncompetitive flyer I can appreciate the refinement of the "breed". Still, I sometimes wonder what gliders of this era will be the Nostalgia planes of the future. The Sagitta, BOT, Aquila, Windfree and others were all very competitive designs in their day yet they are each singularly unique and readily identifiable. Will the same be able to be said about any of today's designs?
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Old Mar 09, 2006, 12:36 AM
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Do not contrate only on looks. There are major differences in structure and details.
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Old Mar 09, 2006, 12:53 AM
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1) I often read the Supra is floater and penetrater in one plane, something one had to choose between earlyer. If this is really true then todays are a very important turning point in model gliders history. Or is it all abit exaggerated?
2) I wonder what structural evolutions molded plane (can) have, compare a modern one with lets say an "old" Elipse2.
Jurgen S.
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Old Mar 09, 2006, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen
2) I wonder what structural evolutions molded plane (can) have, compare a modern one with lets say an "old" Elipse2.
Jurgen S.
About 1kg
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