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Old Feb 25, 2006, 03:30 AM
Registered User
Hemet, California, United States
Joined Aug 2001
2,549 Posts
Hi guys,

If you go don't stay in Coachella itself or Desert Hot Springs. Not places where you would want to leave expensive stuff in your cars at the hotels. The other places mentioned in the first post are fine.

Good luck!

Mickydee
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Old Feb 25, 2006, 10:31 AM
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Daren's Avatar
Los Alamos, NM, USofA
Joined Nov 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickydee
Hi guys,

If you go don't stay in Coachella itself or Desert Hot Springs. Not places where you would want to leave expensive stuff in your cars at the hotels. The other places mentioned in the first post are fine.
To me, it's worth a few moments to bring my stuff into the hotel room overnight. I always try to get a ground floor room, though.

Daren
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Old Feb 26, 2006, 03:01 PM
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United States, NV, Reno
Joined Mar 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanSavage

So, this isn't really the fault of the jet flyers. They were playing within the framework they were given, but unfortunately, they were the one's who, ultimately, had to pay the price.

Dan
Hi Dan, yes this is true. I'm not trying to throw blame out, especially on flyers that were operating within their represented limits. It's just that "facts are facts" as far as altitude limits go and the FAA. It's too bad that a miscommunication, foul up, misrepresentation or whatever it was... could shut out turbine flying entirely for so many for what looks to be such a looong time.

FWIW, anyone who is in a full size aircraft that sees a threat of some sort, any sort really, is going to report it. This is where model aviation and full size differ. It's not just about losing a $10K airplane. It's about the "perception" of safety and encroachments upon safety margins. The FAA is pretty inflexible when it comes anything, let alone our needs and wants as model aviatiors. As such, we all have a responsibility to actively protect our model fields with this type of environment in mind.
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Old Feb 26, 2006, 06:58 PM
SoCal, Year Round Flying!
bmiller's Avatar
Newport Beach, CA
Joined May 2002
5,745 Posts
So whats it gonna take to get the ban lifted?
Is there some sort of process going on to recertify the site?
Is it turbines banned only or all R/C types (Gas/Electric) of flying?
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Old Feb 26, 2006, 11:23 PM
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upland CA
Joined Dec 2004
6,993 Posts
Hey Bruce,Just turbines! and I dont think it will change in the near future..Some rumors I have heard is the site is being sold off to land developers any way.Most likley 2years away but comming.
Eddie P I was in your neck of the woods this weekend..Had to hit up all the LHS in town..
Scott
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Old Feb 27, 2006, 10:08 AM
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United States, NV, Reno
Joined Mar 2000
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Hey Scott, if you are in town much give us a shout, maybe we can do some flying. BTW, that's too bad about Prado. It's a beutiful flying site (for now I suppose).
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Old Feb 27, 2006, 11:21 AM
It wasn't me...
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Trabuco Canyon, CA
Joined Nov 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie P
Hi Dan, yes this is true. I'm not trying to throw blame out, especially on flyers that were operating within their represented limits. It's just that "facts are facts" as far as altitude limits go and the FAA. It's too bad that a miscommunication, foul up, misrepresentation or whatever it was... could shut out turbine flying entirely for so many for what looks to be such a looong time.
Hi Eddie,

I know you weren't trying to blame anyone and I hope that my post didn't imply that you were. I was simply clarifying the events that lead up to the ban for those that were unfamiliar with it.

Dan
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Old Feb 27, 2006, 03:24 PM
SoCal, Year Round Flying!
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Newport Beach, CA
Joined May 2002
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Thanks Scott.
Sounds like Prado is going away anyway so theres no point.
Civilization is pushing out that far nowadays.
I know Doug(CoronaEx) went to the darkside and now has a 3 hour drive to Buttonwillow since El Toro went down. Ahh true dedication!
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Old Feb 27, 2006, 04:02 PM
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Not at all Dan, I knew excatly what you were saying and the background info is important for the whole story to make sense.
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Old Feb 27, 2006, 07:54 PM
Windup the watts brigade
TGoodwin's Avatar
Las Vegas, NV
Joined Dec 2000
2,535 Posts
Quote:
Where did you see the flyer?
Daren,

Sorry for the late reply. I missed your post. I picked up the flyer at the Arizona Jet Rally in November.
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Old Feb 27, 2006, 07:58 PM
Windup the watts brigade
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Las Vegas, NV
Joined Dec 2000
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Quote:
Tucson has stated they only want EDF's that can stay in the pattern with the turbines. They are afraid of an EDF taking out a turbine due to it being too slow. I think Ted's F-16 is only one of the few that will fit in there.
Bob
Bob,

That maybe but if my freinds are not welcome then.
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Old Feb 27, 2006, 10:00 PM
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Las Vegas, NV
Joined Dec 1996
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Saying with the turbines is kind of a silly statement when you think about it. They assume there will be four or five airplanes up at all times? The turbines don't stay in the same sequence the whole flight, passes happen all the time, just like any other model. When I fly at a jet rally I listen and use peripheral vision to keep up with what's going on. I can see the fast guys behind me on the downwind and base turn. If there's some 200 mph Kangaroo coming up behind me, I stay up high or low, away from the traffic. I don't want to get run over.

I flew my scratchbuilt A-10 back in 2004 at BITW and the last flight I made was when it was pretty busy. Pat Richards was calling for me and kept me informed of where everybody was at and I made plenty of early turns to get toward the center of the pattern/in the middle to stay out of the way, but I guess somebody got miffed that my under 5,000 dollar "toy" was in the way. I guess I shouldn't have flown when it was that busy but I really don't see how I got in the way of anybody, dodging toward the middle like I did. I don't recall all the details, I'd have to go to RCU and look back that far, but I really don't want to stir up that snake nest again. If my 95 mph straight and level F-22 isn't fast enough then what is. Maybe I was in the way of somebody's blazing fast pass, but what if somebody was landing in the same positon I was, there still would have been an airplane in the way.

I try now not to fly when it's that busy, you can't do any turnaround type aerobatics, there's not room, it's all racetrack patterns and that gets really boring.
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Old Feb 27, 2006, 11:30 PM
shut up & fly
hoser's Avatar
United States, FL, Miami
Joined May 2001
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i don't know how it is out there but after many shows i've realized that you have all types.

even if your EDF goes 200-mph, well maybe 150. there will be guys that think its cool, guys that don't care and guys that don't want you standing next to them

the same between turbine or EDF pilots, there will be some that will be polite and courteous and stay out of everyones way and be safe and then there is guys that think the event is their own private flying area.

the only real difference is we are the minority.

heck and as far as costs, were getting up there at about $1K per Kw
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Old Feb 27, 2006, 11:35 PM
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Oshkosh, WI
Joined Nov 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TGoodwin
Bob,

That maybe but if my freinds are not welcome then.
I was afraid of something like that limitation . Would be nice if a group of EDF folks can establish what size & speed range would be tolerated? I suppose models large enough to still be visible at about 800' slant distance at the corners? Bob, Ted, or Ed, what max speeds do you think wud be able to keep up with the pattern traffic? 90, 120, 140 mph or more? Probably worth some discussions.

Cheers,

Phil
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Old Feb 27, 2006, 11:41 PM
shut up & fly
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United States, FL, Miami
Joined May 2001
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dont sweat the speed Phil, you think people flying boomerangs, AV8r's and al those other trainer jets are going any faster than us.....?
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