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Old Nov 30, 2006, 10:35 AM
SD_Raptor
San Deigo, CA
Joined Mar 2006
685 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magna
Hi all

Anyone uses Hyperion Z3013? Its seems to have similar weight and almost same KV.
Yes. I am flying with the Z3013-16, 3S or 4S 2000 batts, CC45 esc, 11x5.5 or 12x6 prop. Mounted the motor using only two screws - no problems at all. Vertical is unlimited. On 4s, up to 450 watts of power. The motor gets warm but never hot. I have Hyperion motors (2213 and 4025) in two other planes and have never had a problem.

I have the Z3013-16 because they had it in stock at LHS. I would get the -14 if I ordered one. It will be better on 3s to keep the weight down.

For larger planes the Z4025 is awesome - it has a bearing at the large end of the rotor that keeps everything very precise and very quiet - I can bearly hear my 54 inch Hyperion Yak-54 unless it is very close or snap rolling.

Randy
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 11:37 AM
Registered User
Central PA
Joined Dec 2005
1,496 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by blucor basher
I used polyurethane for everything except joining the wing skins (thick ca) hinges (changed to CA-type hinges and used thin CA) joining fuse halves (thick CA) and servo mounting (Hot glue). I don't like the snakes. If I were to do it again, I'd rear-mount the servos, but you'd better make that decisions before you join the fuse halves, or else you'll have a mess trying to route the servo extensions. If I were to move them now, I'd probably just run the extensions in the control snake grooves, and that would be truly ugly.
CA hinges, hmm... that would save getting the plastic ones aligned perfectly, sounds like a good tip.

How would you mount the servos in the rear, and at what location? What would you use for control rods, linkages, etc.?

Thanks for responding blucor basher!
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 01:10 PM
SD_Raptor
San Deigo, CA
Joined Mar 2006
685 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyB
CA hinges, hmm... that would save getting the plastic ones aligned perfectly, sounds like a good tip.

How would you mount the servos in the rear, and at what location? What would you use for control rods, linkages, etc.?

Thanks for responding blucor basher!
Tommy,

Be cautious moving the tail servos back. This means you need more weight forward to get the CG right. That is a long tail!.

The snakes work perfectly fine if you squirt a small amount of dry powdered graphite lock lubricant down the tubes and work the snakes back and forth a few times. Mine have virtually no friction - the inner tube or control wire will fall right out if held at even a few degrees a tilt. Another tip is to use a sharp pointed hobby knife to ream out the ends of the tubes a bit after cutting them.

You can get the powdered graphite at most hardware stores and almost any hobby shop that sells N-scale or HO trains - the use it to lubricate the couplers.

Randy
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 01:37 PM
blucor basher's Avatar
United States, PA, Lancaster
Joined Jun 2003
24,141 Posts
Graphite lube sounds like a solution, good tip.
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 02:47 PM
SD_Raptor
San Deigo, CA
Joined Mar 2006
685 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by blucor basher
Graphite lube sounds like a solution, good tip.
It works well. I also did this to my Magister, which has even longer snakes.

Actually powdered molybdenum disulfide would be even better since it is less affected by moisture. But it is harder to find and far more difficult to clean up if you have an 'oops' moment.

The biggest problem with the snakes is rust if you fly where it is wet, like on a grass field. The powdered lubes seem to help with this as well. If you fly on wet fields, I recommend replacing all of the snakes and arms with stainless, CF, or titanium rods and wires. But since few planes survive long enough for rust to be a real problem, it probably is not worth the trouble.

Randy
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 06:47 PM
When in doubt, Wing it.
TheWingman's Avatar
Carlsbad, California, USA
Joined Jun 2005
33 Posts
A very simple and actually superior solution for the snakes is to use the outer tube and replace the inner tube and flimsy wire with a CF rod slightly smaller in diameter than the ID of the tube. You can do this for less than four bucks, is is easier to set up, much stiffer and requires no maintainance at all.

Just add a section of music wire with a Z bend on the servo end of the CF rod by wrapping with kevlar or even strong sewing thread then adding a couple drops of thin CA.

Make sure there is plenty of room inside the tube by not using the very largest CF rod that will slide through. If anyone wants the best diamiter for this rod, I can provide it when I get home this evening.

Monte
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 10:21 PM
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TexasFlyer's Avatar
Houston, TX
Joined Sep 2005
1,015 Posts
AM Maiden

I maidened my AcroMaster on Wednesday. It was windy and I only got one flight before it got too windy. I mostly concentrated on trimming and really didn't get a feel for the plane, but I can tell that it is going to be really nice once I get it fully dialed in. With the wide flight envelope, the slow landings are a dream!

I used UHU POR for the fuse and wing gluing as some suggested. It is nice and flexible and the glue seam can be cut open easily for repairs, but I found that is stuck instantaneously. If you go this route, line everything up perfectly before pressing together. I didn't once, so that's how I know it can be easily cut open for repairs .

I did the "Magister" modification to the undercarriage (thin wire and rubber band) and it worked great! I and others have had problems landing light planes in the grass in our field without nosing over, but this worked wonderfully! Without this mod, the LG would deform under it's own weight if lifted off the tail wheel, but with this mod, it held its own nicely. I highly recommend this mod, but you will need slightly larger collars.

I also did the 5mm CF tube mod in the motor mount and it is completely solid - no vibrations whatsoever.

Up until now, I've only flown high wing planes. I initially tried to balance it right-side-up and it needed an ounce of weight in the nose to make it balance at 110mm, so I knew something was wrong. When I was told to balance it up-side-down, it balanced perfectly with the recommended setup with no extra weight needed. So just in case there are other relatively new flyers out there like me, balance it up-side-down -- it makes a big difference. This may explain why a few others had unexplained CG issues. BTW, it would have been helpful if the Multiplex instructions C.G. picture had not shown it right-side-up.

Thanks for all the tips that people have shared - they all worked great!

Alan
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Old Nov 30, 2006, 10:50 PM
Registered User
Slidell, LA, USA
Joined Nov 2002
715 Posts
I went flying again today. Did not seem that windy at the house. I got to the field and it was a different story! But, like the dope I am, I took off anyway. It was soooo bad that I could easily have trashed the plane trying to land. I would not even fly a 35 pound turbine bird in that! Took me four tries to land, but I did with no damage. I'll try again tomorrow as the front is passing through here as I type. I wanna get 5 or 6 flights in one outing, but Mother Nature keeps trying to stop me!
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Old Dec 01, 2006, 01:52 PM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2006
29 Posts
Using a much bigger prop?

Saw early on in this thread someone mentioned theres enough ground clearance for probally a 18" prop, mighty big for this plane, but how about a 15" prop?

The reason I'm asking is I'm planning on using a big bp 3520-7 motor, ( heavy I know) on emoli cells either 4s with a 12x8 or 3s with a 15x10.

Per motocalc, climb rate and duration are almost identical, and the 15x10 actually has more thrust with one cell less weight. Let it be said here my goal is'nt 3d flying, but a intro into pattern flying. It seems all I'm really giving up is some top speed, and not even a whole lot of that.

Thoughts here?

Heres what motocalc says:
Cells = 3
Diam (in) = 15.0
Pitch (in) = 10.0
Batt Amps = 41.9
Input (W) = 365.0
Loss (W) = 62.2
MGbOut (W) = 302.8
OutPLd (W/lb) = 131.6
Shaft Ef(%) = 65.1
Prop RPM = 5212
Thrust (oz) = 71.9
PSpd (mph) = 49.4
RofC (fpm) = 3186

Cells = 4
Diam (in) = 12.0
Pitch (in) = 8.0
Batt Amps = 32.1
Input (W) = 398.1
Loss (W) = 52.7
MGbOut (W) = 345.3
OutPLd (W/lb) = 143.6
Shaft Ef(%) = 72.6
Prop RPM = 7899
Thrust (oz) = 64.7
PSpd (mph) = 59.8
RofC (fpm) = 3015
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Old Dec 01, 2006, 02:58 PM
blucor basher's Avatar
United States, PA, Lancaster
Joined Jun 2003
24,141 Posts
Here are some numbers on mine:

Torque 2818-900 motor
Airboss 35A esc
TP 2070 Extreme 3S
12x6 APC E prop
HS-65HB servos
33 oz. RTF

Undercarriage is A OK so far. I'm flying without a spinner.

The only slight complaint I have is that the AM doesn't transition the stall as cleanly as a good balsa plane, it climbs a bit. KE is very clean, high or low A.
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Old Dec 01, 2006, 03:17 PM
Registered User
Kranj
Joined Jun 2006
22 Posts
Cg for 3d?

Hi!

Where do you have CG of your AM for 3d flying? Currently I fly pattern with it and it's very nice, but if I try 3d with the same CG (in the Multipex recommended range)$ I find it very hard to handle.

If I try to fly harrier, the wings are very unstable and the plane rocks right and left. Is there a cure for that?

Thanks,

Jernej
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Old Dec 01, 2006, 03:29 PM
Registered User
Airdrie, AB Canada
Joined Sep 2004
1,049 Posts
Dean,

Your motor is 237g. That is nearly twice as heavy as the reccomended motor at 134g. So you are plus 100g right there. The 100g motors that will do 350w+ are even better.

3s 2100 prolites are 140g. Heavier cells call it 170g.

EACH Emoli cell is 100g. So you are at 300g or 400g. Emoli's are only good for 12-15C before voltage goes to hell... so blech. 4s is more comparable to lipo under load. (These cells are better in large systems where the weight penalty is not as significant and cost saving can be dramatic. 7s+ imho)

You've turned a 350 watt.. 270g power system into a Best Case 537g system. This increases the weight by nearly 30%. It'll fly but not as intended. The power to weight has had the crap kicked out of it, and wingloading will be much higher than usual. You end up with a 3lb bird that should be 2lbs.

No idea if it will balance. But some dude put a honkin motor on and ripped the nose off... little wonder he didn't love the plane.

Good luck. There are FAR better alternatives. If you have to run what you have... you'll get in the air and be able to bore some holes in the sky.

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean at LHS
Saw early on in this thread someone mentioned theres enough ground clearance for probally a 18" prop, mighty big for this plane, but how about a 15" prop?

The reason I'm asking is I'm planning on using a big bp 3520-7 motor, ( heavy I know) on emoli cells either 4s with a 12x8 or 3s with a 15x10.

Per motocalc, climb rate and duration are almost identical, and the 15x10 actually has more thrust with one cell less weight. Let it be said here my goal is'nt 3d flying, but a intro into pattern flying. It seems all I'm really giving up is some top speed, and not even a whole lot of that.

Thoughts here?

Heres what motocalc says:
Cells = 3
Diam (in) = 15.0
Pitch (in) = 10.0
Batt Amps = 41.9
Input (W) = 365.0
Loss (W) = 62.2
MGbOut (W) = 302.8
OutPLd (W/lb) = 131.6
Shaft Ef(%) = 65.1
Prop RPM = 5212
Thrust (oz) = 71.9
PSpd (mph) = 49.4
RofC (fpm) = 3186

Cells = 4
Diam (in) = 12.0
Pitch (in) = 8.0
Batt Amps = 32.1
Input (W) = 398.1
Loss (W) = 52.7
MGbOut (W) = 345.3
OutPLd (W/lb) = 143.6
Shaft Ef(%) = 72.6
Prop RPM = 7899
Thrust (oz) = 64.7
PSpd (mph) = 59.8
RofC (fpm) = 3015
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Old Dec 01, 2006, 03:36 PM
blucor basher's Avatar
United States, PA, Lancaster
Joined Jun 2003
24,141 Posts
It should have little or no wing rock. Mine's balanced at 5".
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Old Dec 02, 2006, 12:45 AM
SD_Raptor
San Deigo, CA
Joined Mar 2006
685 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jernejk
Hi!

Where do you have CG of your AM for 3d flying? Currently I fly pattern with it and it's very nice, but if I try 3d with the same CG (in the Multipex recommended range)$ I find it very hard to handle.

If I try to fly harrier, the wings are very unstable and the plane rocks right and left. Is there a cure for that?

Thanks,

Jernej
What is your all-up weight? What motor and prop? Do you have your throws set to the recommended settings?

At or near recommended stock gear weight, the bird should be ok. Try moving the CG to larger of the recommended settings.

Randy
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Old Dec 02, 2006, 03:58 AM
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Jurgen Heilig's Avatar
53859 Niederkassel, Germany
Joined Sep 2000
18,764 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean at LHS
Saw early on in this thread someone mentioned theres enough ground clearance for probally a 18" prop, mighty big for this plane, but how about a 15" prop?
...
There is definitely not enough ground clearance for those kind of props and you also wouldn't like the gyroscopic effects of those "monsters".

Making the AcroMaster heavier than it was designed for is generally a bad idea.

Jürgen
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