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Old May 23, 2009, 04:27 AM
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Derby, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daloaf
Hah, you have been building for 40 years and doing a few minor mods is too much for you? I have had this plane for a few years now and it has been thrashed. I'm going on 500+ flights now with at least 10 crashes that would have totaled any of my balsa planes.

What you guys totally miss the point on is that there is NO other plane on the market that flies similar to the 43-49" balsa planes that is made of foam and take the kind of abuse that the AM can. Although my AJ slick, and 55" SHP may fly better (especially in the harrier), the AM holds its own. It tracks well (for its size), does knife edges with no coupling, snaps predictably, withstands hard tumbling maneuvers and is a piece of cake to hover. But as I have said a bunch of times before, it' the increased durability of foam that allows you to try maneuvers you simply would not try on a balsa plane (unless you don't care about crashing it). Learning to do rolling harriers 2-3' off the ground, really low knife edges, full throttle blender that snap to a knife edge spin (this plane is great at this), etc will eventually lead to a crash. But on this plane, at most I break a bit of foam and a prop. Usually I have her back in the air in less than 5 minutes.

If you care about improving your skills and flying a little lower the AM is perfect for you. Could it be better, oh ya. It could be more stable in a harrier and I'm tired of repairing my landing gear, but at least all of the other mods I only had to do once (like the motor mount) and they have lasted for almost 2 years now. If you simply want the best flying plane in this size, go check out 3DHS or PA planes. But if you want a very good plane that will keep on flying with a ton of abuse, the AM is perfect for you.

This plane is far from a lemon.

Matt
Well said, Matt.

This reminds me of folks who complain about the programmes showing on the TV - if you don't like them, switch off or tune out and leave those of us who do to enjoy them, nothing is compelling you to keep watching.

I've stripped one 9g servo but I've also stripped a 16g MG Hyperion servo - on the metal gear Ok that was by whip-lashing the tail clean off the front half of the fuse - so maybe plastic-pinned clevises have a place after all

Nigel
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Old May 24, 2009, 07:08 AM
How close are those trees?
Goody63's Avatar
Perth, Western Australia
Joined Apr 2008
1,806 Posts
Thanks for the answers and discussion that seems to have been generated from my original question on this thread re where to buy the AM from.

However crashed my Cap232 tonight doing something stupid (well as a result of something stupid - it suffered the damage after I knocked it down from the tree it got stuck in).

I crashed my EPP Extra (Red Eagle) a couple of times in the same session but 5 minutes with a hot glue gun and all better.

Anyway I'd imagine the AM would have survived todays events okay too.

So......back to my original question.......anyone know where I can source one of these from Oz or Asia?

Cheers

Dave
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Old May 24, 2009, 04:31 PM
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Everone is entitled to their opinion no matter how wrong they are, its still a lemon, but one that comes to the field everytime I go out, but I should not have to do as much work as required on this airframe to get it to fly proply without vibration, this is the vibration that everyone has experienced with this airframe, no other airframe I have ever had has needed reinforcing to its motor mount to allow the standard motor to be used, after all this is an ARTF not a kit build and most of these are bought by fairly inexperienced builders who may not be up to modifying this to make it what it should have been in the first place.

Mike
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Old May 24, 2009, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddymonkey
Well said, Matt.

This reminds me of folks who complain about the programmes showing on the TV - if you don't like them, switch off or tune out and leave those of us who do to enjoy them, nothing is compelling you to keep watching.

Nigel
That analigy does not hold water, I can not switch off the fact that I bought it and find it to be wanting after building it, I brought my experience with this airframe to the notice of others in the hope that they may make an informed opinion of their own about its build quality, I do not recommend anyone to buy this airframe as there are so many others out in the market place that go together easier and fly as well, In any case I think you will find that Mutiplex have stopped producing it in its current form and have updated it considerably, companies do not re-tool an injection mounding process without a significant reason.

Mike
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Old May 24, 2009, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldEagel
Everone is entitled to their opinion no matter how wrong they are, its still a lemon, but one that comes to the field everytime I go out, but I should not have to do as much work as required on this airframe to get it to fly proply without vibration, this is the vibration that everyone has experienced with this airframe, no other airframe I have ever had has needed reinforcing to its motor mount to allow the standard motor to be used, after all this is an ARTF not a kit build and most of these are bought by fairly inexperienced builders who may not be up to modifying this to make it what it should have been in the first place.

Mike

I think you are the one with the wrong opinion, but you are also entitled to it. First, this is NOT a model for
Quote:
fairly inexperienced builders
The AM is described by Multiplex as intended for intermediate to advanced pilots. I would hope that no inexperienced people are flying one, I certainly wouldn't recommed it to a novice. True, it has some weaknesses that need to be addressed during the initial build, but it's not difficult as you make it out to remedy. I CA'ed light fiberglass cloth inside the nose of both my Acromasters, a task which probably took 10 minutes, and that added enough strength to withstand a dumb thumb incident nose first straight into the ground with very minor damage. The Acromaster isn't unique in needing a bit of work to improve it; nearly every ARF model could use a bit of re-inforcement somewhere. In my opinion, this little bit of tweaking is a very small price to pay in exchange for the performance the AM has to offer.
I liked mine so much I put together an identical twin so I won't ever be without one. Here they are, along with the Parkmaster which is also an excellent performer.
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Old May 24, 2009, 07:32 PM
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USA, ID, Meridian
Joined Jan 2007
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I almost bought the parkmaster. But the AM just seems better as a night flier (that's what mine will be) since the way it's hollowed out. If I get vibrations, I will not attempt to blame foam for vibrating. There are only two parts on a plane that could cause it.
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Old May 24, 2009, 07:55 PM
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San Francisco, CA
Joined Nov 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldEagel
Everone is entitled to their opinion no matter how wrong they are, its still a lemon, but one that comes to the field everytime I go out, but I should not have to do as much work as required on this airframe to get it to fly proply without vibration, this is the vibration that everyone has experienced with this airframe, no other airframe I have ever had has needed reinforcing to its motor mount to allow the standard motor to be used, after all this is an ARTF not a kit build and most of these are bought by fairly inexperienced builders who may not be up to modifying this to make it what it should have been in the first place.

Mike
Mike, I only had to mod the motor mount rails after 50 flights and a nose down crash, that's when the vibration started. The mod of adding an extra crossbar support and more glue took me 10 minutes and I have had no vibration for the last 450 flights or so. It's not that complicated. But I agree with you in that I wish it was designed out during testing before the plane was released.

One other thing Mike, can you point out a single other full fuse foam plane that flies similar to a 43-47" balsa 3D plane, that is a similar size, weight and power setup? I can't think of one.
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Old May 25, 2009, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daloaf
One other thing Mike, can you point out a single other full fuse foam plane that flies similar to a 43-47" balsa 3D plane, that is a similar size, weight and power setup? I can't think of one.
The only one I can think of that is foam is the Formosa which is as close as I can get, but not a very 3D capable airframe, then there is the SebArt Katana 30 which is not foam, but is bigger lighter and fly's better.

Now if you want something which is easy to fly and do outragous 3D with I can recommend the C-ARF 2.1M Edge, mine is fitted with a Pletenburg in spinner motor and 10S, whilst it does not fly for long, its very stable whilst prop hanging, as with any electric you are not standing there hoping the engine is not going to quit.

Oh by the way Daloaf thank you for disagreeing in a polite unconfrontational manner.

Mike
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Old May 25, 2009, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldEagel
If you are getting bad vibrations, check the cross brace at the back of the motor mount is still firmly attached, if neccesary drill all the way through the sides of the plane and put in a threaded bar with nuts on the inside and outside to hold it firm, I firbreglassed in a carbon rod, but thought afterwards the threaded bar would be easier, this mod eliminated all the vibration from my Acromaster.

The lack of doing the above may be the reason some have had nose failiers, all due to vibration fatigue.

Mike
From page 207

Above is the first mod I did to get rid of the vibration in the nose, eventually the nose just got weaker and weaker and I did this, cut the front off then installed the formers and glued the nose back on.

Mike
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Old May 25, 2009, 11:52 AM
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Sorry that I get back so late because I have been busy preparing my coming marriage(But I still think of making the Acro fly before Decemeber )Thanks for the tips brothers, my plane isnt assembled into one piece yet. I have flew few planes like GWS formosa, Ultrafly Cessna and P40, but I have never considered buying a plane that might have the problem of vibration from the motor.

I am not sure if I am on the right track because I might either use Taiwan made motor which is similar to the class of AXI 2820 or Scorpion 3014-16. I understand by simply doing some mods to the motor mount could make my plane more robust, but is it better to simply remove all the orginal parts and use a self-built motor mount for this plane?

bob
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Old May 25, 2009, 12:08 PM
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Where is best CG location for 3d on this plane?
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Old May 25, 2009, 01:03 PM
SHP: Super Harrier Practice
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FRANCE
Joined Jun 2006
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I use aprox 120-125 mm from the leading edge, It' s pretty good for 3D stuff.
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Old May 26, 2009, 07:22 AM
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Surrey, UK
Joined Feb 2007
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I've now clocked 16 flights on this plane now. Really starting to like it.

My nearby field is now 18" tall grass - no runway. -So off comes the LG (super fast - 1x screw and it's off!).

Without the LG and my lighter replacement carbon wing tube, AUW is now just 910g!
Honestly this thing flys unbelievably slow - and never drops a wing!
Rudder turns are lovely.. very gently wing drop.
Am having difficulty with harrier - it flies so light and just refuses to stall until literally at walking pace - then once there it needs a really needs fine control on the throttle (which I don't have!)
Does really nice flat spins - very flat..
Knife edge pulls slightly to gear - need to mix it out or move cg forward slightly (currently hands off inverted).

I dorked it in a couple of times harriering inches off the top of the grass, some instances with power still on as it hits - no damaged to motor mount or nose - looks like the epp nose reinforcements are working..

There's been alot of discussion lately regarding value of this plane. For myself, as an early intermediate 3D learner, I would fully recommend this plane. The mods I did to the nose was very simple; it flies great (keep it light!), and is tough and easy to repair.
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Old May 26, 2009, 07:24 AM
Beware Of The Shills !!!
Chichester Sussex
Joined Aug 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldEagel
You obviously havn't got an Acromaster or don't fly it very often, look back on this thread and you will see the amount of modifications that all have had to do just to keep it flying, Multiplex got this one totaly wrong, hence it has been extensivly modified by Multiplex and still its not a good airframe, I don't need your assistance, I have been building for over 40 years, so I know a Lemon when I buy one.

Mike
Whilst I think Multiplex should resolve what is obviously an issue and it's almost damaging to them not to, I'd still be hard pushed to describe this plane as a lemon !!
It may be because I came from a different direction / experience level and this was the 3rd plane I had with about 8 months experience. It took me from basic aero's to learning all 3D on it and it wasn't until the 5th bad crash (glued it back together the other 4 times) that I finally destoyed my 1st one - I immediately went and bought a second which has had several "hits to the ground" as I try and harrier closer and closer to the deck, I've also clean snapped the nose off and just glued it back together - both of them had hundreds of flights belly landing in a field where the grass is too long to fly anything with landing gear.
My 1st one maybe with lack of building experience I drowned in glue and had no vibration at all with no mods but the 2nd one with my now more refined building experience used the glue more sparingly and discovered why people were talking about the mad cow vibration and I wonder if it could be as simple as that ??
If it flew like a brick or you couldn't trim it to fly straight I'd agree but whilst it's annoying it doesn't affect how the plane flys and I can't think of any other foam plane that's full bodied, flies like a balsa and yet is so repairable and durable in comparison and fully 3D capable.
I do mainly fly balsa out of preference now and YES the mad cow's annoying, YES Multiplex should resolve it but if you can ignore the noise or do one of the mods (which shouldn't be necessary) personally I think this is a great everyday flier especially for someone coming up through the ranks who's likely to give it more punishment than some of the more experienced pilots out there which could well destroy a balsa.
Just my pennies worth.
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Old May 26, 2009, 10:12 PM
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Houston, TX
Joined Sep 2005
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Vibration

If you read way back about a year ago, I suffered from the vibation issue and tried many, many things to resolve it. What finally fixed it was replacing the shaft - even though I could have sworn it was not bent. Just recently, the vibration came back after another crash. Again, I tried a few things like tightening the screws, etc but decided to replace the shaft again - voila! It worked.

So the moral of these stories are to try replacing your shaft even when you don't think its bent. They apparently get bent easier than you think (even the 5mm shaft on my Himax) and even the slightest bend has a profound affect on vibration. Shafts are less than $5 and are relatively easy to replace. Hope this helps others...

BTW, I agree that Multplex failed to design the nose as robust as they should have, but this is a great plane that just won't give up. I've been flying mine for 2.5 years and must have hundreds of flights, about 8 crashes, and about 3 major repairs (ie, would have been terminal for most planes). But she keeps coming back for more. Though I have other more expensive planes, this has been my favorite until just recently. The Multiplex ParkMaster has taken its place and does 3D outrageously easy and doesn't require nearly as much park space to fly. If you want to learn 3D and look like a pro, that's the plane!

Alan
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