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Old Dec 16, 2006, 06:25 PM
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Joined Jul 2005
36 Posts
3-D hovering question

I seen video's of the Acromaster just hovering / torque roll close to the ground right infront of the pilot. The pilot has so much control he can actually grab the plane while hoving it. I can torque roll high up.. But the ones in the video's see much more stable then mine... as far as hovering / torque rolls goes.
They must have a setup for this.
Are they putting cg back farther then normal? Using a flax mix? Using gyro's? They must be doing somthing I am not doing.
How do I set up my plane to fly like some of the video's I've seen in this forum? ( the ones where it flys more like a helocopter then a plane for most the flight)
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Last edited by resedaguy; Dec 16, 2006 at 08:26 PM.
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Old Dec 16, 2006, 06:39 PM
AMA 506547
punkindrublik's Avatar
United States, CA, North Highlands
Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by resedaguy
But the ones in the video's see much more stable then mine... as far as hovering / torque rolls goes.
They must have a setup for this.
Are they putting cg back farther then normal? Using a flax mix? Using a flap-elev mix? They must be doing somthing I am not doing.
lol

Practice my friend, practice. They are setup for 3d, which is huge throws and a slightly rearward CG, but for the most part, it's the the pilot with a good airframe...

Brian
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Old Dec 16, 2006, 06:53 PM
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Slidell, LA, USA
Joined Nov 2002
715 Posts
I agree with Resadaguy. I am a very experienced pilot and have lots of stick time over 34 years with the last 8 being a lot of high velocity turbine activity. One of the things I want to do with this plane is hover and I find it far more difficult than I thought. I agree I do not generally have those skills cause it is obviously a LOT different than flying at 200 mph, but I find it WAY tougher than it looks.

Can someone who is able to hover & torque roll this thing like a pro tell us what CG position they fly at when hovering? I have the throws maxed out with a lot of expo.

Thanks.
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Old Dec 16, 2006, 07:25 PM
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Montrose Co
Joined Aug 2005
3,095 Posts
Hovering the AM

Yes inquiring minds want to know!!!
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Old Dec 16, 2006, 11:10 PM
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Central PA
Joined Dec 2005
1,496 Posts
Got a couple more flights under my belt with the Acro. I'm amazed at the accuracy in control with this plane, although I have yet to tame it.

Funny thing happened today, my 7 year old was cruising the superflea around, and I hit it with the acromaster. Luckily I only clipped it with the wing at maybe 20 mph, and both of us continued flying. Got a nice nick in the wing to show for it, but the 'flea is fine. Couldn't have done that if we tried!

I'm definitely feeling the need for some 20c batteries before I go to max throw and 3d.
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Old Dec 17, 2006, 12:43 AM
Registered User
Airdrie, AB Canada
Joined Sep 2004
1,049 Posts
There is no magical set up for hovering or 3D. Most of the time the cg gets put so the plane flies neutral. Makes rollers much easier. A few may go a little further than that... but it isn't necessary.

Throws on the other hand are all you can eat. But that is more about flips, pinwheels, etc than hovering. Sometimes on a twitchy plane it's easier to hover on mid rates as overcontrolling is a common problem.

It's just practice. Pure and Simple. No need for gyros, mixes, or extreme tail weight. There are a few other places useful for mixes like taking wing rock out of a harrier or dealing with coupling, but not hovering and torquing.

Mike
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Old Dec 17, 2006, 02:59 AM
SD_Raptor
San Deigo, CA
Joined Mar 2006
685 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by resedaguy
I seen video's of the Acromaster just hovering / torque roll close to the ground right infront of the pilot. The pilot has so much control he can actually grab the plane while hoving it. I can torque roll high up.. But the ones in the video's see much more stable then mine... as far as hovering / torque rolls goes.
Moving the CG back certainly helps - just enough to need no elevator when inverted. Then pay attention to the location of the CG location above/below the wing. Moving this a cm can make a big difference for hover stability. With the battery location of the AM, it may be tricky to get the correct fore/aft top/belly location. If you can't adjust top/belly CG, then use small levator inputs to get the centerline vertical.

Also, try using a prop one size up to get a bigger prop disc.

Practice, practice, practice. This is not a slab foamy. If you have a simulator, get to where you can easily hover with a profile plane, then move the CG forward at at a time and get a feel for hovering and torque rolling with a more forward CG. If your simulator allows, also move the CG a bit along the top/belly axis to see how this affects handling.

You'll be hovering in no time.

Randy
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Old Dec 17, 2006, 04:31 AM
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Chino Hills, CA
Joined Jan 2005
1,509 Posts
I can lock in with most planes, but this one reminds me of the EF Extra, which is a little more of a handful than let's say a Shocky.
You know that forgive-point; where you can make the plane correct immediately, and if you let it go, its over. Well, the "forgive" time frame is a little shorter with the AM, than a foamy, that's all. So in effect, more practice, and timing (reflexes) ARE your friends.
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Old Dec 17, 2006, 09:46 PM
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What is the fastest(mph) can this plane go on the power 10
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 01:16 AM
SD_Raptor
San Deigo, CA
Joined Mar 2006
685 Posts
Glued the nose on after ripping it off last week with too much torque. The AM is flying fine again but I may go ahead and glass the nose just for insurance - just two layers of very lightweight cloth.

Next comes the iron-on covering.

Randy
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 01:58 AM
Retired USAF
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USA, SD, Piedmont
Joined Jul 2005
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I finished painting my Acromaster tonight...I contemplated using the decals but decided against it mainly because decals are a pain.

I kept it pretty basic with a red, white and blue starburst with stars, and "Chipmunk-esque" stripes on the bottom. I added some blue to the bottom of the fuselage to add visibility up high.

I used Krylon Fusion, as I had been happy with it on the EZ Glider that my son and I built. Lots of masking and taping--I wish I had an airbrush, but I'll pick one up someday. The blue paint lifted a bit on the bottom of the wing because I got a little impatient and went straight to masking the red...

Here's the pics...
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 02:14 AM
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United States, CA, North Highlands
Joined Sep 2004
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Looks great Jon!
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 06:18 AM
Registered User
Madrid (Spain)
Joined Oct 2004
484 Posts
Hi guys,
I also repaired my AM front-end. I do a wood motor mount and cosmetic touches with bits of white elapor of some oldie (ES).
This time, a bit lower on power (Axi 2820/10 caused failing as stated around two pages ago).
I'd go for Axi 2814/10, apc 10x5E (NOT sf) and lipo 3s. Flew saturday/sunday and... GREAT. Pulls from hover vertically (just, but it does go up). This way I am a bit hot on current: around 42-44A max in flight (Eagle Tree micro saying).
If I use my A123 3s packs, I then go up to 11x5'5 (apc E) and I have also vertical (not unlimited however, but you can loose sight if there is no wind to fight) and ET says I am on the safe side at max 36-38A in flight.
As I am using a non-opto ESC now, and the smaller motor, I am at just 1.000gr AUW (over 1.200gr AUW with 2820/10).
This plane is for 3D, not to be overpowered ant to be as light as possible with enough power. Now I am totally happy with it (I was with the previous setup but... the airframe was obviously not...)
Regards & enjoy it
Josep
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 01:36 PM
SD_Raptor
San Deigo, CA
Joined Mar 2006
685 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by armengol
Hi guys,
I also repaired my AM front-end. I do a wood motor mount and cosmetic touches with bits of white elapor of some oldie (ES).

Josep
Josep,

Congratulations on being airborn again. The lighter motor makes big difference.

Randy
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Old Dec 18, 2006, 01:45 PM
SD_Raptor
San Deigo, CA
Joined Mar 2006
685 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trexflyr
What is the fastest(mph) can this plane go on the power 10
Depending on prop the theoretical speed will be around 45-50 mph. However the AM has pretty high drag with the big wings, so I would expect something closer to 30-35 mph horizontal and a bit more on downlines. She's not built for speed but for maneuvering! Easy to fly ina smal field since the top speed is slow and the minimum flying speed is really low - somewhere around 8-1- mph (not counting harrier flying).

My little Hyperion Su-31 is mch faster on the top end but also has a much highe stall speed and wicked bad tip stall. depending on your CG, the AM will stall and just float straight down with no tip drop - elevator landings can be done in a light wind.

Randy
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