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Old Feb 11, 2006, 09:17 AM
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B'ham UK
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See the diference between Mk 1 and 2 versions

Hi sorry guys if I put the spar in the wrong place I was just fiddling I will re draw it ......its interesting about the diferences between the two versions...I will put up web pics but now you mention it I can see the Pylon at the rear is different from the later version...Thanks it was news to me ..its facinating stuff whenn you realize it was the last of the breed..The working contra Props is achievable ...but Im still cautious about the variable incidence on a model of this size. That pylon is a bit crowded as a structure.

Update -I got the plan out, the spar on the model runs at 1/3 of the 12" root chord and same at the tip which is 61/42 so it is swept forwards ...but there is no rear spar...as Ive shown to act on.
It also shows 2 deg of wing incidence.
Alternative Motor Motor /gearbox space is going to be a bit of a problem.
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Last edited by Airboatflyingshp; Feb 11, 2006 at 01:15 PM. Reason: Added information
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Old Feb 12, 2006, 06:48 AM
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Malanda, QLD Australia
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I found a better copy of the photos in post #11, can read the serial & it's the first aircraft with modded pylon & extra fin, not the second. Dug up a few more photos besides & think (fingers x-ed) I have a grip on the changes now...maybe! Goes like this:
1st aircraft Version 1- Vertical pylon TE, endplate fins, rectangular radiators on pylon
Ver. 2- Swept back pylon TE, small centre fin added

2nd aircraft Ver. 1- Swept back pylon TE, small centre fin, smaller radiators with curved fairings
Ver. 2- Large centre fin
Ver. 3- Large centre fin, small endplate fins

Got photos of all these, will scan the ones that haven't been posted already.
One of the Seagulls (the 2nd I think) was used to test various light alloy radiators but thankfully none of my pics show clearly if they differed externally!

I'm only guessing about the spar location from the cutaway. It's by J H Clark who did great drawings but had a quirky approach to perspective. Sometimes a straight line might not be a straight line, if you see what I mean...

Contra-props would be brilliant, variable incidence might be fun but I suspect monster drag would limit you to a small range of adjustment for practical purposes. I'd be delighted to be proved wrong though
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Old Feb 12, 2006, 12:27 PM
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QUOTE/ I'm only guessing about the spar location from the cutaway. It's by J H Clark who did great drawings but had a quirky approach to perspective. Sometimes a straight line might not be a straight line, if you see what I mean...

Contra-props would be brilliant, variable incidence might be fun but I suspect monster drag would limit you to a small range of adjustment for practical purposes. I'd be delighted to be proved wrong though [/QUOTE]

No prob its only a model plan reality can be very different.....if I did it I would be tempted to use a Foam core wing with a tubular plug in spar structure to form the main pivot.
You may well be right about the Wing incidence but a contra motor like Jimbos can stick out 500W + and is about the size of a S540 minus any gearbox it could jump off the water .........being a little more serious what I think would happen is you would only use it to ROW...and or possibly land under some conditions.......... what those would work out as I'm not sure .
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Old Feb 13, 2006, 07:21 AM
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Here are some photos... not sure about the radiators- one of my pics seems to show big rectangular boxes protruding from the pylon sides while the clearer ones posted here appear to show an adjustable outlet door. Some of these photos are poor newsprint quality and didn't scan too well, sorry...
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Old Feb 13, 2006, 07:31 AM
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...and here are a couple for the details. Contra-prop, variable incidence AND folding wings
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Old Feb 22, 2006, 12:59 PM
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Thanks Zephyr

Thanks Zeph, all info gratefully received how did the full size change its wing incidence any idea? that pylon bridge must have been quite a piece of work on the inside pity the flight engineer.
Ive seen pics of a plastic scale model with its wings back on the seawings site but its not the same as looking at the real thing.
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Old Feb 23, 2006, 07:35 PM
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I've been looking at the cutaway with a magnifier so here's what I think was happening inside the pylon-

Both the spars are straight in the pylon: that is, the rear spar sweeps forward at the junction between pylon and wing. Still fairly sure the main spar was a straight line from tip to tip.

The spars had smallish caps with massive, solid plate webs. Two large nuts were mounted on the rear of the rear spar web and a pair of vertical screwjacks drove the spar up and down. The jacks were driven by bevel gears on a transverse shaft. The electric motor drove the shaft with a chain. There was a clutch somewhere in the system.

The wing was hinged on lugs which projected just below the front spar. This area is not clear on the drawing, the hinge point is numbered but there's nothing to see! Probably the hinge mount on the firewall coincided with the lower engine mount. Hinge centre seems to be close to the bottom of the engine cowling.

There was a manual emergency system too, which was acessed through a rather small hole in the top of the fuselage. It's just a guess, but the cutaway makes it look as if a crew member had to crouch between the wheel wells and stretch an arm up into the pylon to crank the wing manually. Couldn't have been easy...
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Old Feb 24, 2006, 04:29 AM
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So......... my idea of using a worm drive on a model version would be pretty close to the original
That all makes sense and having the hinge attached to the lower part of the front main spar in the model could be easier to do with a built up wing structure rather than the tubular spared foam core idea I had previously........
clearly some scribbling is called for
From what you say about the manual jacking it sounds as though the flight engineer or A N OTHER would have been selected on the basis of
A...not being claustrophobic...B..preferably double jointed
Thanks Clive
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Old Sep 11, 2006, 06:55 AM
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Limoges, Central France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gyronuts
Found it! I will scan the four pages for you. I have attached the pages at 42kb. I can send them to you at up to 2mb per page if you want.What is your e-mail address?
Bill
Hi Gyronuts

I wondered if you would be so kind as to do the same for me.

I've sent you a PM with my e-mail address.

We're on ADSL, so file size is unimportant

TIA

Paul
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Old Sep 11, 2006, 07:12 AM
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Limoges, Central France
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Hi Airboatflyingshp

I've just ordered the plans and canopy from Traplet.

There are plenty of nice lakes around here and I really fancy a go at flying off water.

Any idea of a modern power train?

I'd much prefer to stick with NiMh if possible. Don't fancy those Lunn Poly things!

Any progress with yours?

Regards

Paul
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Old Nov 14, 2006, 12:48 PM
IWC
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you might want to check with Vintage 1 on the power train.
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Old Nov 14, 2006, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IWC
you might want to check with Vintage 1 on the power train.
We did a lot of checking whilst I was off line the original motor is a cell melter but we think we've found a combo that will work ..Paul just has to test it first or its back to an outrunner . ~There seems to be a few questions we need to answer about the wt budget for the airframe aswell.........it doesnt add up somehow it seems way over wt.
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Old May 14, 2007, 08:13 AM
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I will take a chance Second is interest and first is/was just my idea ?
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Last edited by Airboatflyingshp; May 14, 2007 at 08:41 AM.
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Old Oct 06, 2008, 05:13 AM
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Hi Airboatflyingshp and all Seagull-interested people!

Having the plans for the Seagull, I'd be very interested in hearing how things were going for you. Did you put this on the shelf, or can you give us an update on this very exciting project?

Does anyone else have any experience of this one?

Cheers,

Dag
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Old Oct 08, 2008, 10:41 AM
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Dag
I have had a major prob with life but my friends half throttle and Kuni have been busy PM half throttle and he may share some pics Kuni is /was working on something with the original Plans designer but if you want to talk PM me I can share what John and K are up to. But I am not always able to get to the forum pages these days
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