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Old Feb 03, 2006, 02:30 PM
Plane dodger
KillerAir's Avatar
Stratford Sikorsky, Connecticut, United States
Joined Dec 2001
6,715 Posts
No offense but I was answering or clearifing how a plane of this size and weight would fly. The SA Edge is very similar 450sq 50" ws auw 32-40oz puts the wing load with in a stones throw of the topic bird. No one is talking about kit versus arf, or bashing another plane. I was simply stating my experience with a similar size plane built to do the same task and sharing that in a positive way. As for a right to come on here and compare, well yes I can. They are very similar in every way except kit vs ARF. As for other points you bring up, well I just let it go.
Killer
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Old Feb 04, 2006, 12:00 AM
Nick Radle
Bodywerks's Avatar
United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined May 2004
1,842 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv2fly2
Ok lets look at it this way, I have the Stevens AeroModels Stella it has a wing aera of 350 at 16.5 oz AUW, The extra has only 50square inches more at 2x the weight. So I am thinking it's not going to be a slow flying plane or a floater.
Sorry, Killer. I thought it was you that posted the above statement, and it was that, in which I based most of my defensive response. Your statements about SA and this ARF were quite neutral. BUt this guy was trying to compare the SA to this in a way tha made the EF look bad. If he's trying to knock down the plane, he needs to compare it to another ARF.
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Old Feb 04, 2006, 08:35 AM
Plane dodger
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Stratford Sikorsky, Connecticut, United States
Joined Dec 2001
6,715 Posts
No problem Bodywerks. As a matter of fact I am considering the EF Extra as a next plane. I think it is great that the ARF out there are being built this light with electrics as a main power source. I was very surprised to see the weight to be this light, I expected somewhere near 42oz not 32oz. As for Luv2fly2's comment, well I just passed that off as a bad assumption on his part, as well as a bad comparison to weightclass and size of the Stella, which is a much smaller/lighter set up and certainly its task/design is very different than that of the Extra or Edge.
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Old Feb 04, 2006, 11:06 AM
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United States, FL, Moore Haven
Joined Apr 2002
40 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodywerks
Sorry, Killer. I thought it was you that posted the above statement, and it was that, in which I based most of my defensive response. Your statements about SA and this ARF were quite neutral. BUt this guy was trying to compare the SA to this in a way tha made the EF look bad. If he's trying to knock down the plane, he needs to compare it to another ARF.

OK Bodywerks, now I am going to get defensive. If you would read my statement, I was just trying to get other peoples thoughts about the plane. I was not trying to compare a ARF to a KIt there is no way that could happen. I was trying to compare the wingloading to get a feel for what the plane is going to fly like. I mean come on Yes it is light but it is also heaver on wing loading. Now if you want to compare it to another ARf then give me one to do that with. I WAS IN NO WAY TRYING TO KNOCK DOWN THE PLANE.
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Old Feb 04, 2006, 12:54 PM
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You know from day one Chris has always been very conservative with his figures and I can't see to many people flying a 33oz plane here. The reality is 90% will weigh 30 which gives you 10.8oz per sq foot and if mine is anything to go by with an 1800 Flight Power battery then you will be looking at 10.08. Another thing you cannot accuse Chris of is putting together a package which is short of power. The combo setup on this is ballistic. It is not uncommon for companies to advertise their weights with the most marginal setups something else which is not the case here. I reckon you could comfortablely get this thing in the air with 3d performance at 26oz but either way it fly's damn light at 30 on a ballistic setup.
If in doubt just wait and see there will be no dissapointment with this model.
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Old Feb 04, 2006, 02:13 PM
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Essex, UK
Joined Dec 2003
579 Posts
Freestyle-RC -you still keeping us in the dark about the price...
"We try and beat the old Pound/Dollar rutine as much as possible but with the old Uk taxes it ain't easy" Give us a figure man!!
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Old Feb 04, 2006, 05:10 PM
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Joined Oct 2004
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119.95 ARF only and combo will be 214.95 Sorry i wasn't trying to keep it a sectret or anything i simply thought you would have looked at some of the UK forums. There is a nice selection of pictures on www.3drc.info if you want to have a look although you may need to register to see them i am not sure. I'll be getting a few more of mine online soon also just waiting for this new Cowl and Motor mount which seems to have gone AWOL
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Old Feb 04, 2006, 08:04 PM
Xtreme Nut
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Joined Oct 2005
2,046 Posts
Freestyle - I pity you, you must be dying to fly her!!! Hehehehe ... this is one plane you will love to have. When are you coming over?
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Old Feb 04, 2006, 09:18 PM
Nick Radle
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United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined May 2004
1,842 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv2fly2
OK Bodywerks, now I am going to get defensive. If you would read my statement, I was just trying to get other peoples thoughts about the plane. I was not trying to compare a ARF to a KIt there is no way that could happen. I was trying to compare the wingloading to get a feel for what the plane is going to fly like. I mean come on Yes it is light but it is also heaver on wing loading. Now if you want to compare it to another ARf then give me one to do that with. I WAS IN NO WAY TRYING TO KNOCK DOWN THE PLANE.
The Katana mini is a FAR closer comparison, and an ARF:
Wing Span: 40.15" / 1020mm
Length :39" / 990mm
Weight : 26oz (AUW, with battery) I have heard as high as 30-31oz.
Wing Area: 375.1 sq. in (2420 sq. cm).
and this Extra's specs are:
Wingspan: 45Inches
Length: 42.5 Inches
Wing Area: 400 sq Inches
Weight: 30-33 oz
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Old Feb 04, 2006, 11:03 PM
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United States, FL, Moore Haven
Joined Apr 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodywerks
The Katana mini is a FAR closer comparison, and an ARF:
Wing Span: 40.15" / 1020mm
Length :39" / 990mm
Weight : 26oz (AUW, with battery) I have heard as high as 30-31oz.
Wing Area: 375.1 sq. in (2420 sq. cm).
and this Extra's specs are:
Wingspan: 45Inches
Length: 42.5 Inches
Wing Area: 400 sq Inches
Weight: 30-33 oz
The Katana mini Empty weight is only 13oz your telling me that you put that much weight in readio gear in your plane? I think that is not a comparison.
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Old Feb 05, 2006, 06:15 AM
Xtreme Nut
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Joined Oct 2005
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There is no way you can compare the KM with the new Extra 300, how can you? Both are designed so differently, one is a 40" plane whilst the other a 45". I have not flown the KM yet but I can tell you that the Extra is so different from my Prodigy. The Extra is very gentle, has a 'smooth' feeling, I must say that the landings are so gentle, like a Magic Extra.

The offered power combo is just right and its not expensive too. What you want is a power system that can turn a 12x6 at about 7,750 RPM at the least to really enjoy this plane for 3D. I used a 11x4.7 SF and it did not go down well. The 12x6E is spot on.
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Old Feb 05, 2006, 08:49 AM
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I understand the desire to compare this 330 to other models in order to get an idea of how it flys but this can be an apples to oranges thing as some have implied too. I think the main thing people are trying to get a feel for is how light on the wing this 330 is to fly. There is a formula that can help with this comparison, it involves using the cube root of wing loading if I remember correctly (but obviously does not take into account model design like leading edge design etc...). Scott Stoops previously explained the formula and its application here on the zone a while back but I have not been able to find the information which would help shed some light on the topic here. Hopefully someone can chime with the details to the formula. I have a feeling though that if the 330 on the stock setup (which is said to have plenty of power) comes in at
2lbs or less that it should be a real winner, and yes fly very lightly. On a side note I move to consolidate this thread with the one started by Mike Parsons.
shawn
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Old Feb 05, 2006, 10:01 AM
Scott Stoops
sukhoi26mx's Avatar
United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Mar 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbmon
Scott Stoops previously explained the formula and its application here on the zone a while back but I have not been able to find the information which would help shed some light on the topic here. Hopefully someone can chime with the details to the formula.
shawn
Shawn,

It is called cubic loading and basically normalizes wing loading when scaling airplanes up and down. When airplanes size change, their ability to carry weight and retain similar feel also changes. For this reason, wing loading doesn't really tell the whole story. For instance, my 42% Extra has a wing loading of nearly 40 oz/sq.ft. and flies light as a feather. Try flying a foamy with that loading... but if you keep the cubic loading (and planform, incidences, area ratios, etc...) similar, they'll have a similar feel. Here is a page with a calculator on it. Doesn't take into account wing thickness or airfoil selection, but by the looks of it, EF has chosen a relatively thin section with a sharp leading edge, which in my opinion is a great decision (versus a thick section with a blunt LE). Anyway... here's the calc page.

http://www.ef-uk.net/data/wcl.htm

In my opinion, the EF Extra is going to fly very light. It looks to be a very appropriate loading for the design. Judging from the video, it looks to be exceptional.

Scott
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Old Feb 05, 2006, 10:50 AM
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Thank you
Scott
That is exactly the link I was looking for.
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Old Feb 05, 2006, 11:11 AM
Nick Radle
Bodywerks's Avatar
United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined May 2004
1,842 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv2fly2
The Katana mini Empty weight is only 13oz your telling me that you put that much weight in readio gear in your plane? I think that is not a comparison.
Do you have one? Have you read the thread on them? Well, I have one. It has the TP2100, A30-28, 30 amp ESC HS-56's, spinner, and electron 6 and yes, it weighs 26 ounces. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is the going weight for those planes.
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