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Old Feb 07, 2006, 12:33 AM
Embrace the suck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nakelp86
Software is in french and google trans its not so acurate.
I guess I don't follow what you're saying. I have an English version of GMFCpro, and it's pretty clear. Works well so far.

Nauga,
lost in translation
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Old Feb 07, 2006, 09:43 AM
Nakelp
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United States, NJ, Union
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Sorry my mistake I was talking about CNC built and set up
didnt have time to get deeper into the software.
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Old Feb 07, 2006, 11:14 AM
Make something. Anything!
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Syracuse Hancock, New York, United States
Joined Jul 2003
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CeNeCe C4 4 axis chopper stepper control

I received the C4 axis stepper controller from CeNeCe http://www.cenece.com. It arrived very quickly all the way from Spain (less than one week!!). I am waiting on some more specifications on the board because it arrived without the instructions.

From what I can tell from looking at this board (I am not an electronics person) are the following. It appears to have the capability of installing home and limit switches. It appears to have two relays built into the board (possibly to allow you to turn off spindle and coolant type applications). The board has a timer and appears to be a chopper type board (PWM). The board drives the steppers in four different modes.

I intend to give a much more detailed description when I get the actual specs. This board has perhaps the most feature of any I have seen to date.
Here is a copy of what is posted on the CeNeCe web site.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This new controller is based on a PIC 16F84 or 16F627 programmed for the engine control PaP of the Unipolar type.

Utliza also for milling machines since Amp of consumption can handle motors of up to 3.

The use of the power supply FA1 is advised to feed the controller and the motors, although it is possible to be used another source that exit of 5V has and another one for the stage of power of motors with the voltage corresponding to these.

This controller already incorporates the oscillator and the relays, reason why the module does not make lack of previous controllers.

It can operate in way paso/semipaso and polarization of the coils normal or double, increasing of this form torque of the motors

Also it incorporates aim of race for each motor, and a connector for the module of control of temperature of the arc.

The fotolitos for the accomplishment of the plate you can obtain them in format pdf in this same page, also you have them available in the Catalogue of accessories.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Also include in the package that was sent to me was a CT1 Digital hot wire control. This control will work with all the software which supports software control of the wire temperature. Also all the features can be controlled from the LCD screen. Here is what the website says:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The control of temperature of the arc, allows to modify the temperature of the thread of digital form. The controller is based on a PIC 16F627 that regulates by means of a FET P50NE10L the consumption of the thread of the arc. Amp. with a recommendable maximum voltage of 45 V. Recomendamos supports up to 8 a transformer between 24-35 V. and 4-┼.

All the functions are controlled by means of display, that allows to fit the frequency of the pulses of the regulator. It is possible to be handled of manual form with the pulsers or automatic form by means of the CeNeCÚ program, obtaining therefore the maximum benefits of the same one.


The design of the plate of the CT allows, several configurations. We recommended that display by the part of welds mounts, since this allows to put it in a box with the components towards inside. It can be connected through a cable and also be taken to any site. The power stage can be separated if it is wanted, single it is necessary to cut the plate by half and to unite two halves with two cables. There are two pins for it.

We showed the standard form here to mount kit of the Controller of temperature.
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Old Feb 07, 2006, 11:42 AM
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Syracuse Hancock, New York, United States
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Power supply

So far we have talked about the stepper motors and control cards. Both of these items need electrical power to work. Generally these controls need at least 12V DC to drive the motors. HobbyCNC's board and CeNeCe boards both are capable of being driven by much higher voltage than 12 V. Basically with these systems the higher the voltage the faster the motors spin.

CNC foam cutting doesn't generally require high speed. So, keep it simple (cheap), there really is no reason to go beyond a 24V power transformer unless you intend to use the controller to drive a CNC Mill (beyond the scope of these post).

Many of these boards can be powered by a modified surplus computer power supply. All of the boards list a source to aquire a power source on their website. Follow their recommendations and you shouldn't go wrong. ust make sure that the power supply is capable of delivering the amperage required.
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Old Feb 07, 2006, 03:43 PM
Embrace the suck
nauga's Avatar
Joined Nov 2004
4,269 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nakelp86
Sorry my mistake I was talking about CNC built and set up
didnt have time to get deeper into the software.
OK, I understand now. This is the clearest build I've found:

http://8linx.com/cnc/cnc.htm

Nauga,
whose only hope is tape and rope.
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Old Feb 09, 2006, 11:46 AM
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What do CNC foam cutters look like?

So far we have discussed most of the hardware needed for a CNC foam cutter but we haven't really discussed what makes up a typical machine.

Every CNC foam cutter I know of uses some form of mechanical or linear slides. These can be as simple as a drawer slide, Drill rod and plastic bushings, roller skate bearings on gas pipe, NSK linear slides $$$ or any number of other solutions. Here are some examples of slides (see pictures below).

The X- axis slides are hooked up to either a leadscrew or a belt/pully system. A platform of some kind is moved back and forth (x- axis). The stepper motors move the leadscrew or belt which, in turn move the platform.

Attached to the X-axis platform at a right angle, is the Y-axis slide or tower. Attached to the Y-Axis tower is either a leadscrew or a belt which is attached to a platform or holder for the cutting wire. Another stepper motor is attached to the Y-axis tower and moves the holder for the cutting wire up or down. A x-axis slide assembly with an attached Y-axis tower will be called a sled.

There are generally two sleds in a CNC foam cutting machine, a left sled and a right sled. There are two motors on the right sled XR- motor and YR motor. There are two motors on the left sled XL motor and YL motor. The X motors move the cutting wire horizontally. The Y motors move the cutting wire vertically.

The software controlling the stepper motors send pulses to the motors which causes them to move, which in turn moves the platforms and ultimately the cutting wire. The two sleds can be moved independantly of each other or in conjunction with each other. The cutting wire is streched between the two sleds and an electric current is passed through the wire to heat it. The heated wire melts the foam and thus creates the desired shape.

In Highschool geometry we all learned to use a Cartesian plane to accurately describe two dimensional shapes. For those who need a refresher on the Coordinate plane, check out: http://www.mathsteacher.com.au/year8...sian/plane.htm

With a CNC foam cutter we essentially have two parallell Coodinate systems one for the left sled and one for the right sled. You describe the shape you want for each side indepenantly and the software moves the sleds in such a way as to produce the desired shapes (more detail shortly). What is the catch? The catch is that both shapes must have the same number of coordinates (points) in order to work right. If the shape on the right has 100 points (coordinates (X,Y)), then the shape on the left must also have 100 points. Some of the software we are dealing with will force you to manually divide your shape into equal coordinates and some will do the interpolation for you.....

Creating a complex shape using (X,Y) coordinates can be a royal pain. Luckily, most decent CAD packages and some drawing packages will do this for you. Some of the programs we are looking at have built in drawing programs and some don't. Every one of the programs can use CAD data from an outside source to create the drawing file.


Bill
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Old Feb 09, 2006, 05:19 PM
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Melbourne, Australia
Joined Dec 2004
435 Posts
Hi Bill,

Just a quick note in relation to the naming of axes. I've discovered that the x/y convention commonly used in foam cutting doesn't translate when you begin discussing machines with mill/router users. In terms of 3D space we are actually using the the x and z axes with the cutting wire spanning the y axis.

http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/docs/refere...as/node39.html

The co-ordinates in the wing profiles are a 2D system so it is correct to refer to them as x/y.

It's a useful mental distinction to make if you start messing with CAM/G-Code controller programs like Mach2.

that's enough pedantry for the morning

BTW I'm not sure if you are planning on mentioning the Turbo extension boards for the MM2001. They certainly increase the range of steppers the MM2001 can handle, and seem to have good (improved?) performance. I'm consistently running some small 35oz/in nema17 steppers at 0.75ms step intervals using the Turbo boards.

Keep up the good work.

cheers
Paul
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Last edited by spatial; Feb 09, 2006 at 05:29 PM. Reason: add turbo board info
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Old Feb 10, 2006, 12:00 AM
Model Bender
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Australia, NSW, Newcastle
Joined Jun 2004
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Unfortunately the c4 stepper board is very outdated in it's design, turning stepper motors into room heaters

Still,the software looks pretty good now! Any chance of a hands on review?
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Old Feb 10, 2006, 12:28 AM
Make something. Anything!
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Syracuse Hancock, New York, United States
Joined Jul 2003
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Paul,

For the purpose of this post (and my booklet) I will stick to the common use of the coordinate system. As a computer scientist (in my spare time), I realize that you are correct. However, since the industry has already decided on a common convention, that is what we will discuss.

I am not familiar with the turbo boards for the MM2001. Frankly I find the information regarding this board to be underwhelming. The info is their, it just takes a lot of digging to get at it. Still the information provided by our French brothers is invaluable. Without the efforts of this dedicated bunch CNC foam cutting would not be so wide spread. Do you have a URL for the turbo board? Perhaps you could post some pictures.

Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by spatial
Hi Bill,

Just a quick note in relation to the naming of axes. I've discovered that the x/y convention commonly used in foam cutting doesn't translate when you begin discussing machines with mill/router users. In terms of 3D space we are actually using the the x and z axes with the cutting wire spanning the y axis.

http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/docs/refere...as/node39.html

The co-ordinates in the wing profiles are a 2D system so it is correct to refer to them as x/y.

It's a useful mental distinction to make if you start messing with CAM/G-Code controller programs like Mach2.

that's enough pedantry for the morning

BTW I'm not sure if you are planning on mentioning the Turbo extension boards for the MM2001. They certainly increase the range of steppers the MM2001 can handle, and seem to have good (improved?) performance. I'm consistently running some small 35oz/in nema17 steppers at 0.75ms step intervals using the Turbo boards.

Keep up the good work.

cheers
Paul
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Old Feb 10, 2006, 12:31 AM
Make something. Anything!
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Syracuse Hancock, New York, United States
Joined Jul 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzDragonFlyer
Unfortunately the c4 stepper board is very outdated in it's design, turning stepper motors into room heaters

Still,the software looks pretty good now! Any chance of a hands on review?
I plan to review all the software. I just got done with most of the background work for this thread. Maybe I should have a pole to see which software the folks want to look at first?

As for the C4, I have not run it yet. Have you?? If so please pass on a detailed description.


Bill
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Old Feb 10, 2006, 08:24 AM
fullhouse newbie
spatial's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Dec 2004
435 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgriggs
I am not familiar with the turbo boards for the MM2001. Frankly I find the information regarding this board to be underwhelming. The info is their, it just takes a lot of digging to get at it. Still the information provided by our French brothers is invaluable. Without the efforts of this dedicated bunch CNC foam cutting would not be so wide spread. Do you have a URL for the turbo board? Perhaps you could post some pictures.
http://www.teaser.fr/~abrea/cncnet/e...bo/turbo.phtml
but most of the information - in French - is in the doc linked from that page.

There is an illustrated build of the turbo boards at

http://nimoweb.free.fr/cnc/electroni...cnc-turbo.html

http://nimoweb.free.fr/cnc/electroni...ctronique.html

Google translate is very useful with this project


cheers
Paul
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Old Feb 10, 2006, 02:59 PM
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Hello... I'm a CeNeCe developing team member, so I can say that the C4 is a design done without specific stepper motors IC and has all the own defects of these designs extended enough in CNC machines used even in industrial surroundings. But it has also the advantages of not using these dedicated IC, and therefore it's been possible to add our own functionalities like to need a single pin to control the end of race of both senses, to save the sense that activated the end of race to be able to release the motor in the following starting of the controller, and our main contribution was to add a polarization form that does not exist in any dedicated IC and that both the benefits and smoothness of the half step maintaining in addition his torque but with the precision and speed of the single polarization. It has in addition 3 steps of chopped when does not detect an step signal in three seconds. But if one adjusts carefully the power source voltage as well as the ballast resistances, the motors can work for hours without getting warm and maintaining at any moment the necessary torque at 6A.

Best regards,
Javier L.
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Old Feb 13, 2006, 10:51 PM
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Syracuse Hancock, New York, United States
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Coordinates arent the whole story.

In order to cut a specific shape in a block of foam we need to know some specific things.

The first thing we need to know is how far apart the sleds are from one another. It is measured as the distance between the axis through the center of the leadscrews lengthwise. This measurement should be taken from the center of the hot wire holder. On my machine the wire holder is attached to the verticle axis.

Next you need to know the dimensions of the block of foam. Length, height, width.

Then you need to know how far the edges (right and left verticle) are from the center axis of the sleds.

We also need to know at what height and angle the cutting wire is set.
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Old Feb 14, 2006, 10:45 PM
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Projections

The shapes we want to cut in the block of foam are drawn on a set of 2D planes. As I mentioned earlier the shape is graphed out on an X,Y plane. The shape to be cut from the left side of the foam block is drawn on one X,Y plane. The shape to be cut from the right side of the foam block is drawn on another Plane parallel to the left side. (photo 1)

Each sled has a X,Y plane. The sleds X,Y plane is parallel to the two planes on the left and right of the foam block and also parallel to other sled (photo 2).

When we look at one of the sleds from the side we can imagine an X,Y grid. Each point on the foam block can be described as a unique set of X,Y coordinates. (photo 3)

Since we usually do our drawing in a CAD program or drawing program, we generally don't have to worry about each individual point. All of the software we are discussing have a method of converting a CAD drawing into a series of points it can utilize for cutting. These series of X,Y co-ordinates are then arranged in a special order and format. This is called a DAT file. DAT files are a standardized data format which can be read by all the CNC Foam cutting packages we have mentioned.
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