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Old Jun 13, 2002, 07:41 AM
Libertas in Infinitum
logan5's Avatar
Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2001
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another rant from you friendly neighborhood Libertarian

Okay, what's up with this? First the Feds tax you on what you earn. Then they tax you on what you spend. Now when you die, they want to keep on taxing you on the money you leave for your familly.

My parents aren't rich in any sense of the word, yet when (heaven forbids) they pass away, I'll be getting ownership of the house I grew up in. Needless to say, with the Hawaiian property value, the house and the land it sits on is worth close to 1.2 millon. So now I'm going to either have to take out a loan, or sell the house just so I can pay taxes on it to the Feds. Is that fair? What about farms and familly businesses? How does one these days go about working hard and saving to leave something for you children without having half of it raped via a Death Tax? I know the House passed a bill to repeal it, but now it's stuck in the Senate and probably will not pass.

Leading the charge of couse is Tom Daschel. A senator from South Dakota, who's state just repealed their own death tax by a vote of 80%. If he's "supposed" to be representing his state and his constituents, don't you think he ought to be for repealing this tax at the Federal level too? Just another example of how Senators no longer act in the best interest of their own States and only to forward party politics.

logan5
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Old Jun 13, 2002, 09:00 AM
I'm kind of a big deal
Tarpon Shawn's Avatar
Tarpon Springs, FL USA
Joined Feb 2002
852 Posts
I agree....

I have never understood this, how can they tax money that has already been taxed at a very high rate. More class envy. My parents are far from rich, but my father-in-law has a successful business and some valuable property. It's just to bad it may not stay in the family. Now he is spending a ton on lawyers, accountants and insurance trying to avoid just this. Plan for success I guess.

Heck, when the owner of the Tampa Bay Bucs died a few years back the children had to sell the team to pay the taxes. I don't care how rich you are, it's just not right. (opposite of left wing)

Logan5 : If I help you with the taxes can I come visit a couple weeks a year? I went last year and loved it.

Don't forget about taxes on any interest you earn on your savings account or sales taxes for that old car that has been sold 10 times already. The worst tax of all? Thats easy, Clinton's retroactive tax. I hope they never figure out how to tax my internet usage. Yikes.

Here come all the poor rich people cr@p.
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Old Jun 13, 2002, 09:06 AM
Motors beat engines!
Milwaukee Wisconsin, United States
Joined Feb 2001
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Tom Daschle is easy to understand if you just realize every move he makes is calculated to:

a) ensure they hold the senate majority at the next election.

b) ensure that Dubya does not get re-elected.


He is the original political animal. Him and Dick Gebhardt make a fine pair.
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Old Jun 13, 2002, 09:21 AM
God is good
Viper Pilot's Avatar
Banjul
Joined Jan 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by DeaninMilwaukee
Tom Daschle is easy to understand if you just realize every move he makes is calculated to:

a) ensure they hold the senate majority at the next election.

b) ensure that Dubya does not get re-elected. . . . . . . . .
It's a shame that the only planks on their party platform is listed in your post. They aren't FOR anything, just AGAINST the Repubs.

VP
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Old Jun 13, 2002, 10:03 AM
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Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
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If money does talk, (and influence the law) you might expect those hit hardest by the estate taxes will do something about this.
Imagine what Gates' heirs will have to pay!
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Old Jun 13, 2002, 10:21 AM
Libertas in Infinitum
logan5's Avatar
Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2001
312 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Sparky Paul
If money does talk, (and influence the law) you might expect those hit hardest by the estate taxes will do something about this.
Imagine what Gates' heirs will have to pay!
Well, for the SUPER rich, I think they have enough money to hire people to find loop holes and stuff for them. But what about people like me, or familly runned businesses and farms? A lot of people in Hawaii aren't rich in the form of liquidable cash, but the land they have lived on and has been in their famillies for generations are worth millions, it would be a shame if the children had to sell it just to pay taxes.

Logan5
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Old Jun 13, 2002, 12:28 PM
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Many of the richest men in Us claim they are against repeal. If you have less than 676,000 in estate property you are exeempt. If you have a surviving spouse, you are exempt. If you are a family business or farm, you up that to 1.32 mill. If you still are on the hook, you can defer payment for ten years. At way below market interest rates.TOp 1.6 percent of those paying estate tax pay 80 % of the total. Very few estates have so much tied up in eligible property. This is a tax on the superrich. This is to give back to the society that provided you that kind of opportunity. Us poor give our sons for society and to safeguard these superrich fortunes from encroachment. They only have to give money after theyre dead. It could only be ultraconservatives that would protest so vehemently against something that they only dream of someday being subject to. It is fitting that DubDub would make Poppies megawealth and his inheritance of more importance than all other state matters after he secured massive tax cuts for the simply rich. Half the world is starving and the other half is threatening to blow itself up and youall choose to make This your line in the sand. I'm glad that pompous arrogant Repubs are going to stand on this issue for congressional races as it will be perfectly clear who they work for. Congress is the best money can buy. At least on the elephant side.
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Old Jun 13, 2002, 12:43 PM
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Bill Gates and 100 Millionaires sign against DUBDUBs estate tax repeal

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.ht...s/buggs/825973

In 1999, estate taxes brought $28 billion into the federal treasury. And Gates estimates it will cost states $5.5 billion annually.

The only ways to make up that money, he says, are to increase taxes on "those less able to pay" or cut government programs children and the elderly depend on.

SAID BILL
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Old Jun 13, 2002, 01:58 PM
I'm kind of a big deal
Tarpon Shawn's Avatar
Tarpon Springs, FL USA
Joined Feb 2002
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Gman2
I've seen you belittle several people for childish name calling. I guess it's ok when you do it.
Crash
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Old Jun 13, 2002, 02:07 PM
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It is perfectly fine for me to refer to an amorphous group as something. I dont get personal. As for DUBDUB, he is a public figure and chose that position. As for pompous arrogant repubs that is my true view of those men who would exert power over my life. Their choice to dictate to me my legal options makes them suceptible to my opinion.
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Old Jun 13, 2002, 02:37 PM
Libertas in Infinitum
logan5's Avatar
Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2001
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Re: Bill Gates and 100 Millionaires sign against DUBDUBs estate tax repeal

Quote:
Originally posted by Gman2
[url]
The only ways to make up that money, he says, are to increase taxes on "those less able to pay" or cut government programs children and the elderly depend on.

SAID BILL
Programs that the Government shouldn't be involved in in the first place.

Okay, so what if I build a business from the ground up and after 30 years it's now worth 5 million. So tell, me, how much of that upon my death will go to the government and how much of it can go to my children? I think it should all go to my children. ALL of it. I worked hard for it. I paid taxes on it while I was alive. I provided a service to the community and paid taxes that went to the community. So tell me how is it fair that my children must sell the business simply to pay taxes owed on it at the time of my death?

Like I've said ... the SUPER rich who you seem to hate have the money to have others fight it out for them and will always find a way out. But who takes care of the small business owners and landowners who while have millions in non-liquidable assest are simply cash poor?

Sure, my parents could sell their home and have a nice cool 1.2 million in the bank ... but at what cost? The house they raised their children in? When my parents pass away, am I going to have to sell my childhood home simply to pay taxes owed on it? Sure I could defer the payments, but that doesn't solve that fact that I'd STILL owe taxes on it. Oh, I know ... let's keep deffering the payments till my wife and I die, and we'll just pass it along to our children, that way they can owe taxes on the house I grew up in AND the house they grew up in too.

logan5
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Old Jun 13, 2002, 03:04 PM
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As I said, your 1.2 million could be declared a farm if they raised a few pineapples. That would get you off the hook for a mill. They could take a second on it in their later years and invest that for you. That would bring your share to zero. There are a million ways to do it if you are not way over the limit. As I also said, you can defer the payments for 10 years at low rates of interest. If you would look at the figures, you would see that it is far more wealthy people than you will be that start to pay this. Rarely is a business free and clear. There are those that are working right now to increase the exemption for family businesses and farms. This does not require dismantling the whole system. Are you so unpatriotic that you cannot see giving back to the society that gave you the only opportunity to become filthy rich if your parents were not filthy rich? All charities would fold if the estate tax was repealed. DubDub says that they are the rightful ones to care of the poor and downtrodden. So kill the charities and all social services. There is also that part about it stopping a permanent aristocracy. I think you should look at this as if you are not affected as it is very unlikely that you are.
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Old Jun 13, 2002, 03:21 PM
Libertas in Infinitum
logan5's Avatar
Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2001
312 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Gman2
As I said, your 1.2 million could be declared a farm if they raised a few pineapples. That would get you off the hook for a mill. They could take a second on it in their later years and invest that for you. That would bring your share to zero. There are a million ways to do it if you are not way over the limit. As I also said, you can defer the payments for 10 years at low rates of interest. If you would look at the figures, you would see that it is far more wealthy people than you will be that start to pay this. Rarely is a business free and clear. There are those that are working right now to increase the exemption for family businesses and farms. This does not require dismantling the whole system. Are you so unpatriotic that you cannot see giving back to the society that gave you the only opportunity to become filthy rich if your parents were not filthy rich? All charities would fold if the estate tax was repealed. DubDub says that they are the rightful ones to care of the poor and downtrodden. So kill the charities and all social services. There is also that part about it stopping a permanent aristocracy. I think you should look at this as if you are not affected as it is very unlikely that you are.
Dude, I give back to society with every pay check, with every purchase. I volunteer my time everyweekend tutoring children and I run a summer science camp to introduce fligh science to children. What do you do? Tell you what, why don't you be SUPER patriotic and voluntarily donate all of you paycheck to the government.

And you know damn well as I that growing 'pinaples' in my backyard isn't going to make a residence a farm. And taking a second mortage simply means that upon their deaths not only would I owe taxes on the property, but I'd owe the balance on the second mortgage.

And I don't know about you, but I don't know of any Finacial institution that absolves you of any responsibilites after the deferment period is over. In fact after ten years of deferment, even at a 'low' interest rate, I'll just end up owing more than I did when it all started.

Look, it's bad enough that I have to pay taxes all my life, now I have to do it when I'm dead? And the thing that sickens me is that this tax affects me not .... but it affects my children. How fair is that?

logan5
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Old Jun 13, 2002, 03:32 PM
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That deferrment comes in handy when you are talking about a business or farm.
I am not a tax dodge expert but I am fairly certain that they could shield a few hundred thou. You need to do some research for your own peace of mind. I think you will find that you are not affected after all is said and done.

When I ask if you are patriotic, I also assume that you are filthy rich as the vast bulk of those paying anything are. YOU are not filthy rich. Most of the great things in society are attributed to estate taxes. You believe that GOV. should be involved only in national defense and little else. Where are the art museums etc. going to come from. It almost all comes from massive estates that would prefer to have an institution in their name instead of uncle sam deciding.

It also said that within a few years, the limit is going to be a mill. for anyone. They will likely raise that as well to stave off DubDub.
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Old Jun 13, 2002, 03:54 PM
Libertas in Infinitum
logan5's Avatar
Houston Ellington, Texas, United States
Joined Feb 2001
312 Posts
looks like we aren't the only ones feeling the pains of the Death Tax

BUSINESS WEEK / January 24, 2000

Economics


COMMENTARY
By Emily Thornton


INHERITANCE TAXES ARE DRAINING JAPAN'S LIFEBLOOD

Shigetaka Koyanagi's father started a chain of eyeglass stores in Tokyo amid the rubble of World War II. But when his father died, Koyanagi inherited much more than the business. He also fell heir to a monstrous inheritance-tax bill. For two decades, Koyanagi, now 75, has taken loans to pay his roughly $1 million annual tax bill and keep his 60 Kimpodo Ltd. Stores - even though he helped his father start them. Says Koyanagi: "I had to pass up many chances to open new outlets and to pursue new ventures to make those payments."

Koyanagi's dashed hopes show how death and taxes are hampering Japan's recovery. Although Japan Inc. desperately wants to nurture small businesses to create new jobs and revitalize its economy, Japan's small fry complain that high inheritance taxes force them to ditch opportunities for growth. It's time policymakers paid attention to these family businesses and handed them a lighter tax bill.
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