HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jan 17, 2006, 12:25 PM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
Netherlands, Moordrecht
Joined Sep 2004
1,132 Posts
Question
Looking for a Hyper-bipe tester

I've been really busy making plans for the Hyper-bipe.











The original:



Specs:
Span: 800mm
Weight empty: about 80 gram
AUW: 180 gram
Wing loading: 12 gr/dm˛

If you build it light, indoor flying should be possible.

Now I'm looking for someone who wants to testbuild one.

If you are interested in receiving a free plan and you:
1. Have a spare depron 3mm plate
2. Have succesfully build with depron before
3. Have nothing to do now

Please send me a PM with your emailadress. Please tell me which format or size plan you prefer. (A0 / A4 / letter)

In return for the plan I would like to have your opinion about the plan and plane. Pictures or even video would be great!

I'm thinking about making this plan available for download for a (small) fee, because of the time and effort that I've put into it. I might build one myself soon, but currently lack the necessary free time...
Prop-er is offline Find More Posts by Prop-er
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jan 17, 2006, 12:50 PM
Don't leave it Stock
mrfliboy's Avatar
USA, IL, Round Lake
Joined Feb 2004
2,512 Posts
Would not mind giving this a try from sturdyboard, endless supply here. Happen to have all the necessary equipment laying around. Regular 8.5 x 11 tiled would work perfectly for me. Thanks in advance.
mrfliboy is online now Find More Posts by mrfliboy
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2006, 07:52 PM
Titanium Has My Back!!
9LIVES1968's Avatar
Birmingham,Al
Joined Dec 2001
1,815 Posts
Besides building it out of 3mm depron,How about making plans for a larger one for those of us who build out of FFF or EPP(JUST got both in).I would love to build a bigger outdoor version if you make it possible.I have the time,but I dont fly indoor since it rarely snows or gets that cold here in Bham.Great Bipe!I await the results.
9LIVES1968 is offline Find More Posts by 9LIVES1968
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2006, 08:18 PM
Naturally altered
Joined Feb 2005
2,519 Posts
Me like. Me want!
Cubber is offline Find More Posts by Cubber
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2006, 08:30 PM
(My website goes here)
johndreid's Avatar
Purvis, Mississippi
Joined Sep 2005
977 Posts
8.5 x 11 tiled would work nice for me also. I would be more than happy to build one out of FFF. I think that the 31" Span is plently big enough for FFF and outdoor flight on a calm day.
johndreid is offline Find More Posts by johndreid
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2006, 11:21 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
Too Cool! Thanks for (at least) pointing out a neat, unusual subject.

Scale, too... Man that's sweet.
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2006, 12:47 AM
Use the Force!
LBMiller5's Avatar
San Marcos, CA
Joined Jan 2005
2,179 Posts
Prop-er,

Awsome rendition of the Hyperbipe dude! I have always loved that plane, it would be really cool to build one. I would love to get a set of plans for it. I have a 36" roll plotter at work, so I don't need the printed plans, If you send a copy of the CAD file in DXF format or DWG format, I can print one myself and save you the trouble. You don't need to worry about me passing out free copies of the plans, I will only keep them for my own personal use.

I am sure that you have seen my work before in other threads, so you know the quality of my building and reporting skills.

You can PM me for my Email address if you want to send me one.

Thanks in advance!

Lucien
LBMiller5 is offline Find More Posts by LBMiller5
Site Sponsor
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2006, 01:22 AM
Registered User
sci_fighter's Avatar
Joined Jan 2005
15 Posts
Hi Prop-er. Nice plans. I happened to make a 14 inch 2 mm depron HyperBipe recently. I think I got the plans from here but could not figure out which section. Anyway thought I share it here. I am more into smaller planes geared with Dynamics Unlimited gears. So this plane was fixed with a Kenway geared M20 motor with 4 inch blue prop, with RFFS100 rec and a magnetic coil actuator for the rudder. No elevator control was mounted. So just a simple 2 channel ( throttle & rudder ) plane. Flies OK and quite stable outdoors too on calm days even though it is more appropriate to fly indoors. Too bad I have no video to show how it actually flies but I have enjoyed flying this plane so far. So it is a great plane to build and fly !! Cheers.
sci_fighter is offline Find More Posts by sci_fighter
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2006, 10:15 AM
Flt 76..N.bound..feet dry
AllenS's Avatar
Baltic CT, USA
Joined Dec 2000
263 Posts
Hyper Bipe

I've been looking for 3 views of that plane without any luck, so I could build my own. I would like a set of your plans.

Thanks
AllenS
AllenS is offline Find More Posts by AllenS
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2006, 06:39 AM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
Netherlands, Moordrecht
Joined Sep 2004
1,132 Posts
Thanks for all your positive replies!!!

Unfortunately I can't make everybody happy.

I've chosen Lucien & Gene as beta testers. You will receive a PM soon.
Prop-er is offline Find More Posts by Prop-er
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2006, 08:51 PM
Titanium Has My Back!!
9LIVES1968's Avatar
Birmingham,Al
Joined Dec 2001
1,815 Posts
As soon as Gene and Lucien build theirs and give their stamps of approval,and then you makes the plans available for what kind of fee are you thinking about anyway?And then Cubber gets his Rastaprint program available for sale,then I will be all set to upsize or downsize the plans as needed(and finally give Gene a break from tiling and resizing too!lol).OK,lets go guys!We are waiting patiently for plans and programs!
9LIVES1968 is offline Find More Posts by 9LIVES1968
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2006, 11:54 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
Beautiful drawings. 4 pages, 33x46 (and some change). More details to come, as I get going!
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 28, 2006, 06:16 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
So far, no surprises. I forgot how pleasant 3mm depron is to work with. Several pieces make up the fuselage, and so far, the fit is right. I got all the parts cut out, after 3 days out of town, it took a while.

Now to study how I want to brace the wings, and then on with the glue!
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 30, 2006, 11:57 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
Slowly but surely!

I haven't used foam-safe CA in a while, so I decided to try it again. I don't know... Maybe UHU/GWS/Foamhesive would have been better. The kicker helps, but still not as easy as hot glue
.
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2006, 12:13 AM
KE your cub.
Curare's Avatar
in the gutter, again....
Joined Jun 2005
4,197 Posts
Nice.

Bout time I redid mine after I threw a prop and blew it's face off.

Poor widdle hiperbipe.
Curare is online now Find More Posts by Curare
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 31, 2006, 01:31 AM
Wheeeeee!
Birdchased's Avatar
VAFB, California
Joined Oct 2005
276 Posts
I'LL TAKE THE CASE!! Oh, wait, thats BirdMAN, not BirdCHASED...
Birdchased is offline Find More Posts by Birdchased
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 02, 2006, 12:30 AM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
Some more progress.

I imbedded .050"x24" carbon rods in the wings. I used 2 pico servos for the tail. All hinges are done with 1/2" Blenderm. Graphics by templates cut from plans and a Sharpie (Sharpies aren't so good for coloring depron, uneven saturation). Control Horns from credit cards.

ToDo:

- Aileron servo & linkage - still thinking.
- Landing gear
- Wing diagonal bracing
- Battery hatch
- Motor mount (20mm, 20t CDR, 8040HD prop for 3s pack)
- Glue the top sheeting on
- Fly!

Another couple days. Should be able to try indoor Saturday Night. Outdoors sooner, I hope.
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 03, 2006, 08:50 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
Done, and Ready for Maiden. Finished after dark, unfortunately

The last of the build and the RTF pictures.

The only problem I ran into is the top fuse sheeting, which I went back to front with, seemed to not line up with the firewall ply tabs by 1/8" (needed to slot out toward the rear). This could have been my fault, but you should double check the drawings, Prop-er.

Ready to Fly weight with 3sK340 pack came out 240g on the nose. I could have saved a lot of weight here and there, perhaps 25g or so total. But, it seems awful light

Equipment:

4 Pico-BB servos
R4P rx
15a generic Chinese esc
20mm 20t, 26g CDR
Komodo Firewall mount
Credit Card control horns
.032" control rods
.050" carbon fiber rod for wing spars and diagonal bracing
.080" fiberglass rod for landing gear
.055" axles (floss-wrapped & CA'd to main rods) & small fuel-tube keepers
1.5" Dubro foam wheels
Foam-Safe CA for all foam-foam joints
Hot glue for servos and landing gear mounts
Sharpie Markers for graphics

Worst case, I may get to maiden it indoors tomorrow night. A soccer field may be too small, but there are nets all around it
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 03, 2006, 08:52 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
And the finished pictures!
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 03, 2006, 09:11 PM
is it flying time?
Jerry Combs's Avatar
Wyandotte Oklahoma
Joined Oct 2004
2,777 Posts
Looks good Gene! Good luck on the maiden.

Jerry
Jerry Combs is offline Find More Posts by Jerry Combs
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 03, 2006, 10:56 PM
HOW HIGH DOES IT GO???
Ben-Rod's Avatar
Jacksonville, Florida
Joined Nov 2004
2,153 Posts
Nice, very nice looks like it'll fly good too. Love to see some vid of it.

Ben
Ben-Rod is offline Find More Posts by Ben-Rod
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 04, 2006, 01:10 AM
"Experienced-Crasher"
Demon-Leather's Avatar
Rex, NC "Extreme Boonies"
Joined Jan 2002
2,360 Posts
Plans....

Are there going to be any plans for the fan fold folks, or is this A high-$$$ "depron-only" party? If so,.. I may suck at the New generation CAD, but I have My "old-school" CAD program that suits Me just fine ( Codger Assisted Design) and I have those wonderful out-dated, old-wave PDF files I can use (Pick,Doodle, & Figure Files) Here's an example how MY CAD program works... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=383
And below, is a version of one of MY PDF files....
If Prop-er ignores the fat blue foam folks... I'll do one this spring...(it's on My "to-do" list anyway) if he's going to offer a fff version, I won't step on his toes. ( I don't want to see another Hydro-Foam incident... let alone me being in the middle of it! ) Are You going to make a fan fold version available? Bob
Demon-Leather is offline Find More Posts by Demon-Leather
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 04, 2006, 09:00 AM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
Netherlands, Moordrecht
Joined Sep 2004
1,132 Posts
She's looking good, Gene! I see you made some changes, like landing gear and servo positions. I will look into the plywood / top fuse mismatch.

I suppose making a FFF 32" span version would be perfectly possible.
How thick is FFF exactly? And what size are FFF plates?
Prop-er is offline Find More Posts by Prop-er
Last edited by Prop-er; Feb 04, 2006 at 09:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 04, 2006, 09:25 AM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
FFF is .215-.240" thick, depending on the batch, useable sheet size is 23x48"... Not as precise as depron. I would think 6mm would be perfect. Increasing the size to accomidate the weight (and strength) would be a good thing. I was frankly shocked by how big this thing is, as seen by the huge fuse cavity... My poor little K340 pack is lost in there

I was/am concerned with wing area. I think the chord seems thin, but then again, it sorta is a lifting body.

On the changes I made...:
- Aileron Servo: I hate to have them dangle in the breeze on the bottom, asking to get damaged by the grass. Also, I saw no way to get decent goemetry with the ailerons so far apart with a single servo, without going to rod-in-sleeve or something.
- Landing gear. I couldn't quite figure out what the top of the gear was supposed to anchor to, the former? It didn't seem strong enough, and too far back for the way I land. So, I winged it

No outdoor maiden today, fresh snow and 20mph wind...
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 04, 2006, 09:27 AM
Dismembered Member...
arx_n_sparx's Avatar
Niagara Falls/Toronto area
Joined Dec 2003
4,536 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prop-er
I suppose making a FFF 32" span version would be perfectly possible.
How thick is FFF exactly? And what size are FFF plates?
Fan Fold is 1/4" thick nominally - or 6.35 mm. 6mm works fine - that's what emery boards are for . The sheets are 24" x 48", or about 610 x 1220 mm.

Brad
<edit> Gene types faster than me
arx_n_sparx is offline Find More Posts by arx_n_sparx
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 04, 2006, 02:53 PM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
Netherlands, Moordrecht
Joined Sep 2004
1,132 Posts
Thanks! I'll make some 6mm plans tomorrow.

Gene, I'll fix the mentioned remarks. Wing chord is small indeed. But a bipe needs the high aspect ratio to reduce induced drag from upper and lower wing interference. Basically it should have the flying characteristics of a "normal" monowing.... Can't wait to hear how (or if) she flies....
Prop-er is offline Find More Posts by Prop-er
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 04, 2006, 04:09 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
Yes, I agree, Prop-er. If the chord was any longer, then the fuse would need to be taller, and it'd lose some of the body lift...

Should be able to get some video as well, assuming all goes well
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 05, 2006, 02:37 AM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
Just got home. Good news! It flew! Fought the first attempt with a glitchy GWS rx, changed to a Berg 5 and got her going. Really was nervous the whole time, didn't want to crack it up...

It's going to be a fun outdoor plane. It wants to fly a little too fast for the area we have. Don't get me wrong, it handled it and well. Got some video to clean up, will post a link tomorrow (err, later today, after some sleep ) I was able to horse it around, and even got a nice knife-edge pass in. Hope the camera caught it!

This thing NEEDS Kitting! Have you talked to Gary at www.depronlasercutting.com ? Should be perfect for the stuff I've been working with him on. I know several of the guys tonight were asking about kits.

I'm heading out of town for a week, so won't have a chance to try it outdoors for a while, but I am axious to do it. I couldn't open the throttle up It felt like it wanted to fly fast! It flew fine slow, but I was twitching quite a bit, being scared in the confined space. I finally put it away before I killed it, but enjoyed the time I had. I think I might have been a tad nose heavy, but only a good outdoor run will tell for sure.

Thanks for this opportunity, Prop-er. Hope to see a whole bunch of these flying soon!
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 05, 2006, 05:20 AM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
Netherlands, Moordrecht
Joined Sep 2004
1,132 Posts
Nice to hear it flew! I know the feeling trying to fly in a space which you just know is too small for the model....

It's quite hard to find center of gravity on a bipe. Atfter hearing your story, I think it needs to be further back. Try 16mm from front upperwing rootchord.

Shame your off for a week. Hope to hear from you soon.

I'll talk with Gary today. It should be available from him soon.
3mm and FFF plans will be available too!
Prop-er is offline Find More Posts by Prop-er
Last edited by Prop-er; Feb 05, 2006 at 05:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 05, 2006, 09:31 AM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
Netherlands, Moordrecht
Joined Sep 2004
1,132 Posts
FFF plans are ready for beta testing. Need two victims. Any volunteers?
Prop-er is offline Find More Posts by Prop-er
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 05, 2006, 11:01 AM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
Go for it guys! This thing is sweet! Most of the guys walking by the pits last night recognized it right away... That says a lot.

For an FFF build, I would suggest peeling the skin off everything but the wings. Chances are the wings may not need any additional bracing.

Prop-er: Just a thought, but if the wings were rolled with a slight under chamber, say 4%, then probably wouldn't even need bracing on the 3mm version. Or, form the under chamber, and use a depron doubler in the bottom, concave area... Just a hack thought, FWIW...
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 05, 2006, 11:03 AM
"Experienced-Crasher"
Demon-Leather's Avatar
Rex, NC "Extreme Boonies"
Joined Jan 2002
2,360 Posts
I'd Love To....

But I can't,.. I have about 15-20 planes to build, and there are 4 or 5 different design plans I have to recalculate using My CAD (Codger Assissted Design) program, and it all has to be done before the 18th of March!
I'm trying to get ready for the Lexington NC swapmeet.. I wish I could though.. This is a Kool plane! Heck,.. I'd even whip ut a cowl plug for it! Man,... this ALWAYS happens to Me, when a good design comes along.. But,.. I need to start makin' $$$, being poor sucks. BUT, I might be able to help with the C/G issue. Gene & Prop-er,.. the one in the photo is dead-on....Bob
Demon-Leather is offline Find More Posts by Demon-Leather
Last edited by Demon-Leather; Feb 12, 2006 at 10:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 05, 2006, 11:30 AM
"Experienced-Crasher"
Demon-Leather's Avatar
Rex, NC "Extreme Boonies"
Joined Jan 2002
2,360 Posts
Peel the Wings Too....

All You need is a 1/8" strip of Carbon fiber on the leading edge "wetted with epoxy, then cap it with a fan fold strip, and sand it to shape like balsa... Fan fold sands lovely,.. just like soft balsa.. Below is a photo of the Roarin'20 wing,.. Tips ar 2 X ply fan fold sanded to shape.. 21" span. Because the wing had a thick airfoil, I heated & bent the top piece (just the inside)in GPW's Bendfoam wing bender. Then laid it on a flat bottom piece, after sanding the joining angles. The Probond is the ONLY reinforcement to the wing. I bend the top piece, and "glaze" the inside with a heatgun (Glaze = partially melt, just till it starts to look "wet" ) I do the same with the Bottom INSIDE Then, I use Vyceroys method of using just a fan fold strip spar at about the apex of the airfoil. With the Probond on the leading & trailing edge, and on the spar.. It will pull any load you desire. AND,.. The outside of both panels are baby-butt smooth and will even cover VERY easy... Peel it,.. You also save a full 25% of overall foam weight. The reason I say use carbon fiber on the leading edge of the Hyper is, The airfoil is very thin (at least on My plan) and looks like its only as wide as a single sheet of FFF. If You are going like 36" You can use 2 plates, and heat & bend the foil (looks semi symmetrical) and forget any reinforcement... Bob
Demon-Leather is offline Find More Posts by Demon-Leather
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 05, 2006, 04:35 PM
Master of the figure 9
Old Man's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined May 2004
2,677 Posts
Prop-er PM sent

OM
Old Man is offline Find More Posts by Old Man
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 05, 2006, 07:47 PM
KE your cub.
Curare's Avatar
in the gutter, again....
Joined Jun 2005
4,197 Posts
I built mine with a nice 15% symmetrical section, but even so there's a lot of force on that wing once she starts going. and I put a nice mainspar into it.
Curare is online now Find More Posts by Curare
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 05, 2006, 09:55 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
Finally got the video from last night's maiden cleaned up a bit: Click here to watch Hyper-Bipe-Indoor-Maiden
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Last edited by Gene Bond; Feb 05, 2006 at 10:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 06, 2006, 12:14 AM
Dismembered Member...
arx_n_sparx's Avatar
Niagara Falls/Toronto area
Joined Dec 2003
4,536 Posts
Great vid, Gene! And we actually got to catch a glimpse of the ubiquitous Mr Bond too. I was half expecting a green pallor, red eyes, and a lizard tongue .

I see what you mean about putting a prop-er 'foil on it - she sure wants to scoot. Mebbe sone of them long foam meat trays instead of Depron on the bottom of the wing? Hmmmm.....

This thing looks like some serious fun! When are we mere mortals gonna be able to get these plans, Prop-er?

Brad
arx_n_sparx is offline Find More Posts by arx_n_sparx
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 06, 2006, 12:37 AM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
I kinda took a shot in the dark on the power setup, but I'm pretty sure I nailed it! I just wish I was going to be home this week to catch a break in the weather... I'm really axious to get it in an open field!
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 06, 2006, 06:54 AM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
Netherlands, Moordrecht
Joined Sep 2004
1,132 Posts
After finishing the 40" FFF plans, I had some time left to tidy up the 32" 3mm depron plans.

I still like to update the three views for both versions, which I expect to be an one hour job.

I'm in the proces of buying a house, so time is not on my side. (murphy's law...) I also lack a broadband internet connection right now. (Grrr)

I can finish the plans tonight, but don't have the time to finish my new site.
For now I will take orders per PM or e-mail.

Plans will be € 5,- / $ 6,40

I can only accept Paypal for now.

I will send the details later.

And I still need one beta tester for a 40" FFF (6mm) version. Empty weight around 250 gram, total flying weight about 450-550 gram.
Prop-er is offline Find More Posts by Prop-er
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 07, 2006, 03:50 PM
Registered User
cyberbipe's Avatar
United States, AK, Fairbanks
Joined Sep 2003
130 Posts
I stumbled acrossed your thread in the tiled plans thread. They look great! I would love to beta it but I own a Doughnut Shop and right now I am short on staff. I am verry intrested in buying a set of plans for the FFF version. Please pm me with the details.
Michael
cyberbipe is offline Find More Posts by cyberbipe
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 07, 2006, 08:29 PM
JAM
MaxAmps CMO
JAM's Avatar
Nine Mile Falls, WA
Joined Jun 2004
4,402 Posts
Proper I'd be interested in the Testing of the 40" Version......I just finished up a HOB P-51 Mustang and need something to build while I wait for the snow to melt. And I have the Purfect power set up for something of that size. Plus lots of foam.

TM
JAM is offline Find More Posts by JAM
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2006, 06:34 AM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
Netherlands, Moordrecht
Joined Sep 2004
1,132 Posts
I did some more work on the 40" FFF plans. Scaling a plan is quite tricky. More things to go wrong than you can imagine....

But it's ready for beta testing. I've chosen Towman, Old man, and Cary reeves as beta testers.

You will receive a PM today.
Prop-er is offline Find More Posts by Prop-er
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2006, 07:33 AM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
A good group!

Hope it goes as well as the 3mm version. Warm up your whetstones, guys, you've got some cutting to do! (or go buy a box of blades....)

So, you gonna peel it all? I would. I don't think you can get away without bracing the wings even with the skin, so might as well lose the weight...

An Esky 400xt or BP-12 would seem like the power choice off the top of my head... Thoughts?
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2006, 08:51 AM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Bond
So, you gonna peel it all? I would. I don't think you can get away without bracing the wings even with the skin, so might as well lose the weight...
I'm planning to peel it all and white glue thin balsa strip on the edges of the wings like I did on the Neuport. I'll be more careful with the weight on this one.

Did you have any balance issues?

Gene you talked about an under cambered wing. Do you think I should go that way with the 40" version or stick with the flat plates?

Quote:
An Esky 400xt or BP-12 would seem like the power choice off the top of my head... Thoughts?
I was planning on the 400xt. I picked up 4 of them from HL at $20/ea. They've been great in the IRC planes I've built. Even with the Chipmunk loaded up to 12oz with the 3s1500's it will zoom straight up for as long as I can keep it pointed straight.
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2006, 09:06 AM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Looking at Prop-er's estimated weights for the original and Gene's actual weight and accounting for a 30% increase in lineal dimensions (70% more area) and the foam being twice as thick (assuming the same density for peeled FFF as 3mm depron; don't really know) I estimate the bare weight at around 358 grams. Add another 140-170 grams in bracing, gear, etc. and you have an AUW around 500-530 grams or roughly 17.5-18.5oz for the 40" FFF version. More if I go with a bigger battery. Am I figuring this right?
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2006, 01:49 PM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
Netherlands, Moordrecht
Joined Sep 2004
1,132 Posts
Well, My Cad-program calculated 220 grams of foam. I think 250 gram empty is a very realistic guess.

Gene didn't mentioned his empty weight, and admitted using relative heavy electronics for the petite Hiper-bipe.

Add to that a 50 gram Bp-21 (use a 1100 rmp/v version, or the 60 gram BP-12, on a 9" prop minimum, due to large fuse frontal area...).

About 100 gram for the battery, 30 gram for servo's, 10 gram for receiver and 20 gram for the ESC, you get a total weight of 460 gram.

It's no indoor flyer, but a real parkflyer. (and if you build it heavy enough, quite a fast flier...) If you plan to do aerobatics, you'll need at least 750 gram of thrust.

So far I have the following additions to the beta plan:

Motorplate: the mentioned 0,7mm thickness should read 1,5mm.
Forgot the CF rods in the wings (again... )





It looks "chunkier" than the 30" version., don't you think?
Prop-er is offline Find More Posts by Prop-er
Last edited by Prop-er; Feb 10, 2006 at 01:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2006, 02:39 PM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
It definately looks chunky. Before I saw the actual plane I thought your scale was way off. Then I did some searching and realized it's supposed to be chunky.
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2006, 03:21 PM
Master of the figure 9
Old Man's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined May 2004
2,677 Posts
I am going for the total peel. I have a new bundle of protection board so I will only have to peel one side. I have plenty of carbon fiber rods laying around to stiffen the wings. I figure that I will heat treat the wings and use carbon fiber.

Now which glue do I use? I hate waiting for Pro-Bond to dry but I don't want the weight of hot glue. Maybe a little of both.

Flight pack
BP-12
3s 1500 or 3s 1200 Lipos
GWS 6 channel reciever
servos
3 waypoints
1 hs55

Using dual aileron servos I can use flaps to slow it down for landing.

Prop-er
Which file do I need to print? There are five on the down load.

OM
Old Man is offline Find More Posts by Old Man
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2006, 04:55 PM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Old Man: The first two files are the templates and the last three are views of the assembled airplane and equipment. I had Prop-er send me single sheet pdf's and I just printed the last three scaled down to letter size since they are more for reference only. I just got mine printed and pieced together.

Oh, by the way, THIS THING IS HUGE! lol There is more foam in the tail assembly than in most entire airplanes that I fly. I'm going to try thinnned white glue for most of the foam joints to try and go with the bare minimum weight. I'll be weighing everything as I go and posting the numbers.
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2006, 05:25 PM
Master of the figure 9
Old Man's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined May 2004
2,677 Posts
I just printed the first two files. As soon as I finish cooking dinner I am going to get started!

I do have a new bottle of Foam safe CA but I that could get very expensive. I may tack it with CA and then use Pro-bond.

This is going to be so cool. I got a BP-12 for Christmas that has been looking for a home.

Time to get cooking so that I can get building. Wooo Hoooo!!!!!!!!!!
Old Man is offline Find More Posts by Old Man
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2006, 08:03 PM
JAM
MaxAmps CMO
JAM's Avatar
Nine Mile Falls, WA
Joined Jun 2004
4,402 Posts
Ok just read what you guys got so I will go with a BP-21 And peel the fuse, gonna wait to see what I think about the wing's.......As for glue I got foam safe, Pro Bond and hot glue I think the tacking with the foam safe is a good idea then we'll see from there. I'm gonna get the printer going .....make a run to the store for some cutting fuel and then it's time to work on this little bugger..........................

TM
JAM is offline Find More Posts by JAM
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2006, 10:11 PM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
I just finished transferring the plans to posterboard and cutting out all the templates. Now I'm peeling FFF and taping the templates to it so I can hot wire the foam. My fingers are a little sore from cutting out all those tabs! lol I've been working on it while watching the Olympic opening with the kids. I hope to get the foam cut tonight and then I'll use thinned white glue for the build. Glue a few panels, tape, let it dry, then do some more. It'll take most of tomorrow in 15 minute bursts in between my weekend projects around the house to get it glued up.
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2006, 11:58 PM
Re-Kitting Expert :o
Bullhead City, Arizona
Joined Jan 2005
1,689 Posts
Man I love this plane. Been meaning to build one but just haven't had time... Wonder what sturdy board would do...

ps Very nice Gene!
GorillaBob is offline Find More Posts by GorillaBob
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 11, 2006, 01:39 AM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Here are the numbers so far. I got all the parts out of two panels of FFF with some to spare.

Just for grins I checked the weight of one panel with the bend cut off (about 3/4" from each long side.

Panel with skin 5.6 oz
Panel peeled 4.2 oz
ALL the foam parts cut out weighed 5.4 oz or 153 grams. Off to a good start!

I dry fit the parts and it all seems to fit well. When I put it together for real I'll work the bend in the windscreen a little more. The front of the "cowl" is a little tough to fit. I think I just need to massage the curves in and it will be o.k.

I am really tempted to paint it to look like a catfish b/c that was the first thing I thought of when I taped it together. Most likely I'll go with something like the picture at the beginning of the thread.
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 11, 2006, 05:40 PM
JAM
MaxAmps CMO
JAM's Avatar
Nine Mile Falls, WA
Joined Jun 2004
4,402 Posts
My templates are cut and glued to the foam ready for cutting.......I think I'm gonna leave the skin on the wings and the bottom of the fuse only, everything else will be peeled. More to come from my end soon.

TM
JAM is offline Find More Posts by JAM
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 11, 2006, 06:00 PM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
When my wife came in the kitchen this morning and saw the plane she said it looked like JJ the Jet plane. Hmmm another possible scheme.

I'm not getting anything done on it today b/c I ended up needing to help with two school projects, both of them involving models of the Alamo built of FFF.
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 11, 2006, 06:12 PM
JAM
MaxAmps CMO
JAM's Avatar
Nine Mile Falls, WA
Joined Jun 2004
4,402 Posts
I'll be cutting foam most of the night and maybe some glue Sunday sometime......I'm putting together a resume' for a new job.......need to get off the road...getting to dangerous plus my knees are given' me to much trouble.

TM
JAM is offline Find More Posts by JAM
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 11, 2006, 07:57 PM
"Experienced-Crasher"
Demon-Leather's Avatar
Rex, NC "Extreme Boonies"
Joined Jan 2002
2,360 Posts
I noticed...

The wings have been cut with the foam waves going chord-wise....If You cut them lengthwise (with the waves) the wings will be a LOT stiffer. Foam does have a "grain" of sorts. going with the waves is going with the grain.
Also, I know the wings on the Hyper are thin... A spar can be made with nothing mor than a 1/4" wide strip of .014 carbon fiber laminate. I made a crude drawing to better illustrate ( I KNOW everyone loves My crude drawings! )
Demon-Leather is offline Find More Posts by Demon-Leather
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 11, 2006, 11:56 PM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Prop-er: I cut the elevator as shown on the plans and is has large counter-ballast (?) ends. Your renderings posted above as well as the plan show the bracing wires in the tail going to the elevator in this counter-ballast area. Did I misread the plans? Was the elevator supposed to just be a small rectangular surface int the middle of the tail?
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2006, 12:15 AM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Proper: I suggest adding at least one tab on the forward edge of the vertical stab assembly that keys into F2. This would give that piece positive self jigging for glue up like the rest of the structure has and save having to use pins to hold the alignment while the glue dries. It would make sure the top of the fin is flush with the top center tab of F2 for a nice fit into the T-slot in the turtle deck.
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2006, 06:33 AM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
Netherlands, Moordrecht
Joined Sep 2004
1,132 Posts
Nice work, guys! It is huge indeed. It's a real monster bipe!

Cary, you got me there! There's no way anyone can mount the carbon bracing wires on a moving vert. stab.... :O

I've got loads of Hiperbipe pics showing just a small vert stab. Bracing is done the way as shown on the 3 views of the plans.

I also got a pic of a (modified?) Hiperbipe showing a larger balanced vert stab.
I kind of took the liberty to make the plans this way, since you can't have enough vert stab on an aerobatic bipe. Please take note of the way bracing is done on the modified hiperbipe:



I will (in time) modify the plans using both your (great) remarks.
Prop-er is offline Find More Posts by Prop-er
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2006, 10:05 AM
JAM
MaxAmps CMO
JAM's Avatar
Nine Mile Falls, WA
Joined Jun 2004
4,402 Posts
Servo's are going in right now and the wife had one question when she saw the fuse sitting on my bench........................."What the he77 is that??"

Ha, she said it looked like a pregnant shark.

TM
JAM is offline Find More Posts by JAM
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2006, 03:29 PM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
Netherlands, Moordrecht
Joined Sep 2004
1,132 Posts
A pregnant shark ???!!!

I sure hope your Hiperbipe will not reproduce itself, and doesn't bite. (I will not be held responsible in any way, bla bla bla...) Would be satisfied with a shark's agility, though...
Prop-er is offline Find More Posts by Prop-er
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2006, 04:51 PM
JAM
MaxAmps CMO
JAM's Avatar
Nine Mile Falls, WA
Joined Jun 2004
4,402 Posts
Here's how mine stands so far...........just have to install airlons and rods......and Hook up the tail surfaces...........

Bp-21
8x4 DD
CC T-Bird 18
2 GWS Servo's for the airlons
2 Hitec HS-55's for the tail surfaces
Li-Po will be 1500 3 cell or 900 3 cell

Weight right now 15 oz's

TM
JAM is offline Find More Posts by JAM
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2006, 05:26 PM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Looking good. Did you back up your firewall with plywood or just use the FFF? I used 1/16 ply w/o any fff.
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2006, 05:47 PM
JAM
MaxAmps CMO
JAM's Avatar
Nine Mile Falls, WA
Joined Jun 2004
4,402 Posts
Cary it's got two thin strips of ply on the back side....just enough to keep it from flexing.................

TM
JAM is offline Find More Posts by JAM
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2006, 08:56 PM
JAM
MaxAmps CMO
JAM's Avatar
Nine Mile Falls, WA
Joined Jun 2004
4,402 Posts
Control surfaces done..............AUW is 17 oz's without pack and 20 oz's with a 3 cell 900......

should fly................Just need the suggested CG and we're off to the maiden when the weather clears.

TM
JAM is offline Find More Posts by JAM
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2006, 10:12 PM
"Experienced-Crasher"
Demon-Leather's Avatar
Rex, NC "Extreme Boonies"
Joined Jan 2002
2,360 Posts
Tow Man....

I posted a photo of the C/G before when Gene was asking about it. It's off a different plan, but should be the same (or close) for this one. Check with Prop-er first though... I don't want any Beta crashes to be My fault! Bob
Demon-Leather is offline Find More Posts by Demon-Leather
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2006, 10:43 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prop-er
Gene didn't mentioned his empty weight, and admitted using relative heavy electronics for the petite Hiper-bipe.
Sorry about that. Due to the way I added parts as I went, and never had a 'complete' airframe, less the electrics, I quit at foam and hinge weight, before any glue, which was 61g.
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 12, 2006, 11:58 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
I did the whole firewall as 1/8" lite-ply. It's not that heavy...

Fast job TM... Looks great!

See what I mean about how big this thing seems? There's room for asome serious equipment (or small children) in there, on mine, much less these big 'uns!
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2006, 06:36 PM
JAM
MaxAmps CMO
JAM's Avatar
Nine Mile Falls, WA
Joined Jun 2004
4,402 Posts
Thanks Gene, that means a lot.......what did you find for a comfy CG on your little one?? Or should I just go with 30% of both wings like I have done in the past.And you ain't kidding about space....I think I could fit one of my cats inside this thing.

TM
JAM is offline Find More Posts by JAM
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 13, 2006, 11:50 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
I set the cg at 1/2" back on the top wing (out of 4-1/2"), so 11% of the top wing.

I've not got a chance to wring it out yet, but maybe tomorrow.

It kills me, since the weather was beautiful all week (except the one day it snowed) last week while I was stuck in Minneapolis... And I had no planes, but I did take the controller for Realflight
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 14, 2006, 07:09 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
United States, LA, New Orleans
Joined Jul 2002
24,200 Posts
Never a plane around on a "Bluebird" day ...
gpw is offline Find More Posts by gpw
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 14, 2006, 05:49 PM
JAM
MaxAmps CMO
JAM's Avatar
Nine Mile Falls, WA
Joined Jun 2004
4,402 Posts
Gene what were ya doing in the Twin cities????? If I'd a known you were there I could have drove down to meet ya' . It would have been nice to meet the man behind the screen...........Anyways my maiden is going to be delayed for a few days...we hit 30 degrees today but it's gonna slipp into subzero temps for the next four or five days. So in the meantime I need to find something else to build.

TM
JAM is offline Find More Posts by JAM
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 14, 2006, 06:24 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
I was stuck in Eden Prarie from Monday morning to Friday afternoon... Meetings and BS from 7:30 to 10 or so each night... barely a break to go outside and enjoy the weather with a Camel Sat too much, ate too much, drank too much, broke a rib at ProKart... Ouch for a few months... Would have been in Ft Myers, FL normally, but plans change when big companies buy little ones!
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 14, 2006, 07:43 PM
is it flying time?
Jerry Combs's Avatar
Wyandotte Oklahoma
Joined Oct 2004
2,777 Posts
Gene,

Dang guy how did you break a rib at ProKart? Anyway, heal quickly my friend and have someone else set your models down for takeoffs so you don't strain that rib any more than necessary.

Jerry
Jerry Combs is offline Find More Posts by Jerry Combs
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 14, 2006, 09:24 PM
JAM
MaxAmps CMO
JAM's Avatar
Nine Mile Falls, WA
Joined Jun 2004
4,402 Posts
To bad you couldn't have made it to Flying Cloud Airport in Eden Prarie.....they have a real good Aircraft museum there with lots of WWII planes..............Next time you get sent to the great white north let me know in advance, I'll see if I can get together with ya'....my father still lives in the Cities so it gives me an even better reason to go down there. As far as the rib goes....soaking it in cider ain't gonna help........but refrain from laughin' and next time keep your chest off of the kart's steering wheel.

TM
JAM is offline Find More Posts by JAM
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 14, 2006, 10:52 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
In the main, I hit by 2 guys going into the first turn, on the first lap (naturally). I got mad instead of pulling out, and still finished 'first in class' (Guys over 40 from more than 100 miles away)... It'll be fine in 6 months or so... I haven't broken a rib in 30 years or so. They hurt back then, but today, the other aches and pains kind of mask the rib pain

I'll surely be back up there from time to time. Hopefully the weather will be a s nice or nicer than it was last week! Hopefully I'll have some free time when I am there.
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 15, 2006, 12:44 AM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Gene: Sorry to hear about the rib. Hope it heals quickly.

All: I've made a little progress.

Paint: I went with the yellow scheme. Oops! Yellow over blue gives a sick yellow and I don't mean that in a good way. It'll look fine from 10 feet away. BTW, the front piece fit fine and with a little sanding it blended nicely.

Wings: I used 1/8 tubes in both wings so I started not to bother with bracing. I ended up doing it for the look and was suprised at how much of an improvement it made on an already decently rigid structure. No flex in these wings.

Controls: I fiddled with the tail controls tonight and wasn't very happy with their rigidity. Turns out I used peeled FFF for the servo tray and it was just too mushy. A added another top plate and sides from peeled FFF and they're plenty good now. Anyone building in the future should make sure to at least use FFF with the skin on for the tray. I think I would go ahead and add sides also for the extra stiffness.

Gear: I built a beefy set of gear out of some heavy duty carbon flat I had lying around. I would like to brace them against the front of the lower wing spar and under the top wing spar like Gene did his as this seems like the strongest way to set it up. But, with mine, it looks like the wheels may be too far forward. They would be an inch or so forward of where Prop-er shows them on the plans. Is this too far forward?

AUW: It's looking about like 13.5oz w/o battery or 15.5oz with a 2s1200 pack and 17.2oz with a 3s1500 pack. I would think either would be fine, although I'm leaning toward the 2s pack for a larger prop at lower rpm as being more appropriate for this airframe. Suggestions?

**Edit**
I forgot to give a size reference in the pictures. But, you could easily hide 6 12oz cans inside that fuse!
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 15, 2006, 12:51 AM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Another thought on the wheels. If necessary I could move the gear behind the lower wing spar and lash it too the spar so it doesn't mush back into the foam on landing.
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 15, 2006, 12:52 AM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Prop-er: The plan shows two holes in the top fuse piece near the front. What are these for?
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 15, 2006, 07:04 AM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
Netherlands, Moordrecht
Joined Sep 2004
1,132 Posts
I'm just back from two days France.

About C/G: the Hiperbipe has offset and swept back wings. I've done some calculations to find C/G. It turns out that the neutral point should theoretically be at 25% of front of top wing root chord. For first flights I recommend a static stability of about 20% MAC, which results in a c/g position of ~5% from front of top wing root chord, or 7mm for the 40" version.

For aerobatic behaviour, c/g can be further back, back to 5% static stability, meaning about 28mm from front of top wing root chord.

Anyone brave enough to try this?

Quote:
Is this too far forward
Well, it's not scale, but other than that I can't think of any side effects.

Quote:
Turns out I used peeled FFF for the servo tray and it was just too mushy. A added another top plate and sides from peeled FFF and they're plenty good now. Anyone building in the future should make sure to at least use FFF with the skin on for the tray. I think I would go ahead and add sides also for the extra stiffness.
I will add sides to the servo tray.

Quote:
Another thought on the wheels. If necessary I could move the gear behind the lower wing spar and lash it too the spar so it doesn't mush back into the foam on landing.
Probably need to work on this. This is one solution. Another one is to add some CF or ply on landing gear mounting points.

Quote:
Prop-er: The plan shows two holes in the top fuse piece near the front. What are these for?
I don't have the faintest idea... Better forget about them.

Prop-er is offline Find More Posts by Prop-er
Last edited by Prop-er; Feb 15, 2006 at 07:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 15, 2006, 11:27 AM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Any suggestions on the proper way to link top and bottom ailerons? It looks like Gene put horns straight off the trailing edge with a straight wire connector.
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 15, 2006, 02:05 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cary Reeves
Gear: I built a beefy set of gear out of some heavy duty carbon flat I had lying around. I would like to brace them against the front of the lower wing spar and under the top wing spar like Gene did his as this seems like the strongest way to set it up. But, with mine, it looks like the wheels may be too far forward. They would be an inch or so forward of where Prop-er shows them on the plans. Is this too far forward?
My axles are right at the LE. Maybe your gear is taller.

Quote:
Prop-er: The plan shows two holes in the top fuse piece near the front. What are these for?
Not on the smaller plan...

Quote:
Any suggestions on the proper way to link top and bottom ailerons? It looks like Gene put horns straight off the trailing edge with a straight wire connector.
I don't know any other way
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 15, 2006, 02:15 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prop-er
About C/G: the Hiperbipe has offset and swept back wings. I've done some calculations to find C/G. It turns out that the neutral point should theoretically be at 25% of front of top wing root chord. For first flights I recommend a static stability of about 20% MAC, which results in a c/g position of ~5% from front of top wing root chord, or 7mm for the 40" version.

For aerobatic behaviour, c/g can be further back, back to 5% static stability, meaning about 28mm from front of top wing root chord.

Anyone brave enough to try this?
What would the scale factor be to the 3mm version?
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2006, 12:16 AM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
It's ready for a first flight.

Eskay 400xt
Cool Running A-12 ESC
Electron 6 Rx
4 Blue Bird 306 servos
AUW minus battery = 14.9oz
AUW w/ 3s1500 = 18.6oz
10x47 GWS SF prop = 12A WOT static. I may try some other props later. E.g. an 11x?? DD.
Hovers at 1/2 throttle (don't know how this corresponds to actual %WOT)
I have a slider mixed with ailerons so I can slide it up from the mid point to raise all four ailerons or down to lower them. I've set up other dual aileron servo planes this way but never got around to actually using it in flight. Maybe this time.

I move the landing gear back behind the lower wing spar and lashed and epoxied the gear to the spar. The wheels are approximately in the same position as Gene's. And yes, my gear probably is taller. I have clearance to easily swing a 13" prop.

With current gear placement and the 3s1500 battery, it balances just behind the leading edge of the top wing.

I decided to link the ailerons with vertical tabs. I'm sure all of you knew that was a dumb idea but I had to figure it out for myself. With small deflections you get similar deflection top and bottom. But with large deflections the top aileron stops moving up while the bottom one still travels several degrees. I have the throws dialed down in the range where top and bottom move approximately the same. If later I decide I need more aileron deflection, I'll end up removing the linkages and doing it the right way like Gene did.

Any thoughts about whether aileron differential is good or bad with this plane? Right now I have it programmed for 10% and I can change it in flight to dial it in. But, I'm not sure what I am looking for and if that is a reasonable starting value.
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Last edited by Cary Reeves; Feb 16, 2006 at 12:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2006, 12:56 AM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Tow Man: Have you had a chance to maiden your yet? I'd be interested to know where you came out with a CG in your flight tests.

If I go first I'll let you know how my CG turned out. Right now if anything it's probably a little nose heavy.
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2006, 07:15 AM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
Netherlands, Moordrecht
Joined Sep 2004
1,132 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Bond
What would the scale factor be to the 3mm version?
30" version: C/G ranges from 5 to 22 mm from front of top wing root chord
40" version: C/G ranges from 7 to 28 mm from front of top wing root chord

Please mount your batteries as high as you can. C/G should be halfway between top and bottom wings. Helps preventing unwanted couplings.
Prop-er is offline Find More Posts by Prop-er
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2006, 07:33 AM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
I got a chance to wring mine out yesterday outdoors... I kept slightly reduced throws, compared to what I was expecting... About 60% elevator, 80% aileron and 85% rudder. I have not measured them, but will:
Ailerons +/- 5/8"
Elevator +/- 1/2"
Rudder +/- 1"
These are the high rates. I did not attempt to do any differential, just left aileron throws symetrical, and no flap function. At slightly high alpha, it will plop right down for a landing, no real need for wheels

Got some video, just need to clean and compress it.

My hover point is closer to 3/4 throttle, not that it is an easy one to hover, but I got a couple seconds in

I did get some elevator flutter at high speed, diving. Not sure if it will be visible in the video, but was not fatal. I backed off a tad and it went away. May be a little too much counterbalance on the elevator.

Not sure that I ever got it trimmed perfectly, the wind was still 8-10mph, so it was deceptive.

At 10% of the top wing for a balance point, it was plenty aerobatic. Not tail heavy, and controllable to just above stall. It will tip in stall, but not bad and easily recovered.

I'll post a link to the video later.
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2006, 07:34 AM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prop-er
30" version: C/G ranges from 5 to 22 mm from front of top wing root chord
40" version: C/G ranges from 7 to 28 mm from front of top wing root chord

Please mount your batteries as high as you can. C/G should be halfway between top and bottom wings. Helps preventing unwanted couplings.
Thanks. I wasn't sure what the ws on the larger version was... so, 133% for the larger version.
Gene Bond is offline Find More Posts by Gene Bond
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2006, 08:03 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
United States, LA, New Orleans
Joined Jul 2002
24,200 Posts
Gene , we've heard alot going on , back and forth about this plane .... so , what's the story .... How is it ???? Do we need one ??? What's the dish ??? Big one sounds HUGE !!!
gpw is offline Find More Posts by gpw
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2006, 10:14 AM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
Big one sounds HUGE !!!
Here's the size reference. I think a gallon jug would lay on its side inside the fuse (w/o the formers, gear, etc.)

LG seems strong enough
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2006, 10:18 AM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prop-er
30" version: C/G ranges from 5 to 22 mm from front of top wing root chord
40" version: C/G ranges from 7 to 28 mm from front of top wing root chord

Please mount your batteries as high as you can. C/G should be halfway between top and bottom wings. Helps preventing unwanted couplings.
My second mistake. I mounted my battery to the back of the firewall. Like the ailerons linkages, maybe I'll rearrange things after the maiden.
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2006, 10:29 AM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Bond
I got a chance to wring mine out yesterday outdoors... I kept slightly reduced throws, compared to what I was expecting... About 60% elevator, 80% aileron and 85% rudder. I have not measured them, but will:
Ailerons +/- 5/8"
Elevator +/- 1/2"
Rudder +/- 1"
These are the high rates. I did not attempt to do any differential, just left aileron throws symetrical, and no flap function. At slightly high alpha, it will plop right down for a landing, no real need for wheels

Got some video, just need to clean and compress it.

My hover point is closer to 3/4 throttle, not that it is an easy one to hover, but I got a couple seconds in

I did get some elevator flutter at high speed, diving. Not sure if it will be visible in the video, but was not fatal. I backed off a tad and it went away. May be a little too much counterbalance on the elevator.

Not sure that I ever got it trimmed perfectly, the wind was still 8-10mph, so it was deceptive.

At 10% of the top wing for a balance point, it was plenty aerobatic. Not tail heavy, and controllable to just above stall. It will tip in stall, but not bad and easily recovered.

I'll post a link to the video later.
Thanks for the info Gene. Now I feel pretty confident that my initial CG should be fine and maybe where I'll want to keep it.

For the record, when I post that a plane hovers at a certain throttle setting, I'm using "hover" as a power rating. If it hovers it has at least a 1:1 thrust to weight ratio. I've never actually hovered an airplane for an extended period in controlled flight . I test it by holding the plane pointed straight up and increase throttle until the plane will support itself while I BRIEFLY let go. With another click or two of throttle they will usually head for the ceiling and I have to pull them back. While it's not necessary for most of my flying style, if my planes pass this test and aren't tail heavy I'm usually confident for a hand launched maiden.
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2006, 10:39 AM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Most of my assembly was with yellow carpenter's glue thinned with water (1:1) which is the consistency of milk. I assembled the parts, taped them with scotch tape where necessary to keep them aligned, and brushed the glue into the joints. The tape peels off easily once the glue is dry. I also used the thinned glue to attach the balsa edges to the wings and stabs, including triangle stock at the hinge lines. It doesn't fill gaps but once dry it is practically weightless. I used epoxy for the landing gear mounting and most of the flying wires. I used PU glue around the firewall. I used hot glue for the control horns and I tacked the top sheet of the fuse on with small dabs of hot glue so that if I decide I need to do major surgery I can remove the top with a hair dryer pretty easily.
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2006, 11:00 AM
E-Flight Addict
ronin8451's Avatar
Weatherford, Tx.
Joined Oct 2003
1,329 Posts
That looks good Cary ! I hope those 6" and 12" extensions worked fine for you .
Hopefully our crappy weather will subside long enough for you to get some flights in . I have always loved the "fatty" look of the Hyper-Bipe and this one pulls it off nicely for the parkflyer crowd.

Rick
ronin8451 is offline Find More Posts by ronin8451
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2006, 11:16 AM
On patrol.
Cary Reeves's Avatar
Broomfield, Colorado
Joined Jun 2004
1,287 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin8451
That looks good Cary ! I hope those 6" and 12" extensions worked fine for you .
Hopefully our crappy weather will subside long enough for you to get some flights in . I have always loved the "fatty" look of the Hyper-Bipe and this one pulls it off nicely for the parkflyer crowd.

Rick
Thanks Rick.

The extensions were the last thing I needed last night before I buttoned it up. By the time I twisted them, the 12's were just long enough. I was sweating it a bit at first. Now that I know my CG is in the forward part of the range, I could move the radio back a few inches to give more slack in the extensions and not hurt the CG. I'll do a range test and some test flights before I do any mods though.
Cary Reeves is offline Find More Posts by Cary Reeves
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2006, 11:39 AM
Registered User
cyberbipe's Avatar
United States, AK, Fairbanks
Joined Sep 2003
130 Posts
Are the plans ready for sale??
I want one of these babys.
Mike
cyberbipe is offline Find More Posts by cyberbipe
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2006, 02:01 PM
Launchpad McQuack
Prop-er's Avatar
Netherlands, Moordrecht
Joined Sep 2004
1,132 Posts
Plans for the 30" and 40" versions will be updated with the suggestions collected during beta testing.

Within a few days they will both be available for a special introduction price!
Prop-er is offline Find More Posts by Prop-er
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question looking for..Foam Bipe 38-42" span Dampy Foamies (Kits) 13 May 17, 2006 07:49 AM
Discussion Looking for a 3d BIPE! 3D WARRIOR 3D Flying 23 Apr 08, 2006 12:49 AM
Looking for big bipe link dgoslee 3D Flying 5 Sep 03, 2005 01:19 PM
Looking for another bipe brianb10 Foamies (Kits) 1 Jul 23, 2005 04:55 PM
Looking for one beta tester for lighting system.. Nik-rc Parkflyers 9 Sep 12, 2004 08:50 PM