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Old Jun 09, 2002, 08:00 PM
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mtayl's Avatar
Boulder, CO USA
Joined Sep 2001
1,405 Posts
AMA banning full contact combat?

[I'm not sure if this belongs in foamies or Open Discussion, but I'll start it here and the moderator can move it.]

Much to my surprise, this showed up on the yahoo Zagi group today:
Quote:
Yo!
Hi Guys! I just found this list this morning and managed to
join it. Therefore I am new to your group, but I come bearing some
very important information for you guys. I am posting a message(s) to
you guys that I received from Dr. Sandy Frank. He is the AMA District
8 Vice President. I am the current chairman of the new AMA Radio
Control Combat Contest Board. I have contacted the members of that
Board and requested their input re their knowledge of any full contact
RC Combat in their areas.
They, like I, have very little knowledge of, or aquaintance with
this form of Radio Controlled Combat. The Board membership is
currently 100% RCCA members. RCCA being the AMA Radio Controlled
Combat Association and the only AMA SIG currently representing the
interests, issues, and concerns of RC Combat flyers to AMA.
As Dr. Frank states, unless your form of RC Combat (Full
Contact) is represented to the AMA Safety Committee and/or your
respective AMA District V.P.(s) prior to the July AMA Executive
Council meeting scheduled for July 14-15, you guys may well be faced
with seeing your full contact combat banned by the AMA. THEY NEED TO
HEAR FROM YOU RIGHT NOW!! If nothing else, send me your constructive
input to them, and I will see that your words reach the appropriate
parties to insure that your input is heard and seen. Again,
constructive and rational input only, PLEASE!!
Please feel free to contact either myself, Your AMA VP, or Dr.
Frank with your input. I would ask that you contact one or all of us
directly. Time is short so please do not delay at all. Please spread
this information and request as widely an quickly as you can. Thanks,
and I hope to hear from you. Thank you.

.........Chief

Dr. Frank Wrote:
the ama safety committee is at work...
there needs to be an organized voice for ZAGI COMBAT
if Not RCCA
or the NEW contest BD
it does need to be someone???
this was approved by the ama safety committee
and will be presented at the July AMA Council meeting...
please forward to any groups or internet lists
which FLY this type of event...

s frank

(and)

Will definately get more input by the Muncie NATS
but it will be getting kind of late
this BANNING will be proposed at the next Council meeting..
if anyone knows of a ZAGI discussion group please advise..

sandy frank
The RCCA group he talking about is at http://www.rccombat.com
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Last edited by mtayl; Jun 09, 2002 at 08:08 PM.
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Old Jun 09, 2002, 08:07 PM
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mtayl's Avatar
Boulder, CO USA
Joined Sep 2001
1,405 Posts
Before you come to the conclusion that you shouldn't care since, after all, it is AMA; think about this for a second. The principal group that confronts the FCC and the cell phone conglomerates to actively petition frequency space for our hobby is.....the AMA. This is one of the reasons why I send them $30 a year so I can fly. Anyways, you might want to voice your opinion to Chief2d8 at chief2@sbcglobal.net to protest the "official banning" of your combat sport. Here's my response that was CC'd to a bunch of the AMA folks including Dave Brown, the current President of AMA:
Quote:
Hey Chief, thank you for the heads up but I have a small problem with
banning combat with a foam aircraft such as a Zagi. Let's start with the
Mission Statement of the AMA:

"The Academy of Model Aeronautics is a world-class association of modelers
organized for the purpose of promotion, development, EDUCATION, and
ADVANCEMENT of modeling activities."

To quote Dave Brown, President of AMA, when he was speaking about the
censorship of accidents, "I think it serves the membership in terms that go
to the very purpose of the organization: education. That education tends to
reduce the number accidents as people become more aware of what to watch out
for."

Well, frankly I am not seeing much focus or purpose on education here. A
purposeful and educational approach would be to take a look at the current
combat rules, establish some official ones and HELP EDUCATE new members to
abide by the rules. This would be a fantastic opportunity to generate and
retain new members in a meaningful way as opposed to pushing existing
members away.

Do a careful analysis of Dave's combat rules at his site
http://www.davesaircraftworks.com/combatru.htm and see if the current AMA
insurance policy can be applied to it. I'm convinced that it can. If the
AMA decides that it cannot, then put a disclaimer in the policy so that it
does not cover combat events. Why potentially drive new members away by
"officially" banning a fast growing and popular event? If nothing else, all
of the District VP's need to understand that combat will be flown with or
without the AMA; so I would focus on getting the combat officially
sanctioned rather than an outright ban of it due to ignorance or fear.

I am an AMA member and I do not fly combat, but I find the attitude to be a
bit over handed and, um, stupid and shortsighted to say the least. Combat
has been going on for a long time and for the AMA to even suggest they do
not know about it strikes me as a total waste of my AMA dues. What are they
doing with my money besides building a new facility and having potluck
dinners? This whole event strikes me as the District VP's saying, "Well,
we do not know anything about it so we will just ban it. Yea, that's
simpler for all of us."

The AMA insurance question is something that probably scares the VP's.
Would you insure a combat contest where the intent is to "harm" another
aircraft? Interesting question that the AMA does need to answer, but the
outright banning of foamie combat is nonsense and would have the ultimate
effect of driving people AWAY from the AMA and the inherent safety that it
provides through EDUCATION. I would like to hear the reasons for banning it
other than insurance reasons and just plain old fashioned ignorance.

I flipped through my June issue of MA again and did not find anything which
spoke of combat and the potential banning of it, particularly in my District
report. WHY NOT???

Hopefully the CC list on this email will show up, but if not, I have CC'ed
Dave Brown (AMA President) and all of the District VP's on this email.
Please use the following email list to forward complaints and suggestions
about the AMA combat issue.

rumiller@daktel.com; sfrank69@airmail.net; richh@bigplanet.com;
nelsonAMAVP@cs.com; wesdecou@cox.net; jackf@modelaircraft.org;
dbrown@dbproducts.com; dmathewson@mindspring.com; amadiii@penn.com;
chuckamavp@aol.com; ama@scott.net; bauerc@iit.edu; sgaeroinc@comcast.net;
skaluf@modelaircraft.org

Matt Taylor
AMA 691892
District IX
http://www.yourzagi.com
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Old Jun 09, 2002, 11:12 PM
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Austin, TX
Joined Jan 2002
29 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by mtayl
Before you come to the conclusion that you shouldn't care since, after all, it is AMA; think about this for a second. The principal group that confronts the FCC and the cell phone conglomerates to actively petition frequency space for our hobby is.....the AMA. This is one of the reasons why I send them $30 a year so I can fly. Anyways, you might want to voice your opinion to Chief2d8 at chief2@sbcglobal.net to protest the "official banning" of your combat sport. Here's my response that was CC'd to a bunch of the AMA folks including Dave Brown, the current President of AMA:
Actually I don't even fly combat (but do fly my Zagi-400XXX in many parks & lots near home & work) but this still concerns me (and I am also an AMA member)... but one thing I do want to point out that while it is important for us to have our voices heard, Chief2 is the wrong person to voice your opinion to. He just heard about this, the same as you or I did and passed the info on to a group that has many combat fliers in it. The correct persons to contact would be your District VP's, and other members of the AMA safety committee & EC. Emailing him is gonna be about as effective as emailing your mom about the situation... (sure, you might get some sympathy, but she's not gonna be able to do anything about it.. well, unless she's a VP I guess)

j-E
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Old Jun 10, 2002, 12:29 AM
Retired USAF, A&P mechanic
Ronbo's Avatar
United States, WA, Puyallup
Joined Jul 2001
427 Posts
im with u on this mtyal.

i would post this on the sloper forum too here at r/c groups, since your post is a lot better than mine was.

im going to send mine out to the district 10 here soon. trying to make sure i have enuff info in it.....
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