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Old Jan 07, 2006, 08:21 PM
Registered User
Auburn Ga.
Joined Feb 2004
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High $$$ 20C or low $$$ 12C batteries

We see more and more battery manufactures advertising that they have a 20C to 40C burst rate lithium battery, Some we know and some we never heard of.
Is there really a want or need for 20C rate batteries other than for Hot Liner's
From all that I have read here on the Group and by other's, Give us a good 12C 18 burst at a good price and we will buy them. I have two large planes, One 19 1/2 pounds and the other 11 pounds both flying on 8C batteries and doing great.
Some of the smaller 3D planes need a good 12C rate but I don't see where a 20C would do more than add maybe 1/4 volt per cell under a load. Is that worth 2 times the money to get ???
Manufactures if you are wanting to get a good hold on the Lipo market, Supply what people really want.
Just my thoughts

Milton
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Old Jan 07, 2006, 09:12 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,833 Posts
Big difference between need and want and sometimes these are also tied to a substancial difference in performance levels.

Examples: Fancy Foam (Mike Hammel )Flat Plate Foamies Edge 540, HiMax 2015/4100 geared 6.6:1 GWS 12X6 prop. Started flying with R Tec 3S 1200 6C Classics. Thought they flew great . Hovered at a touch over 1/2 Throttle ,good vertical 15 min. flights. Tried 1500 3S 8C to heavy,extra weight hurt performance even thought motor had more power.
Tried TP Pro Lite 3S 1320, tons more power,light as 1200 E tecs 12 min. flights and no way I would go back. Sure the Pro Lites cost 50% more but they provide 80% more performance and live twice as long,
I also fly a few PQ 850s and 1100 as well as VAMPower 1050. and iRate 1100.s. All of these do a very good job of flying this class of aircraft but there is flying and then there is FLYING.
I would say for sports / scale planes with 16-30 oz. wing loading heavier 10-12C LiPolys are fine but for 5 oz. wing loading 3D ers give us the most powerful ,lightest there is. I would rather have 5 great batteries than 8 so,so batteries.

Bottom line 3.5 volts per cell between 6-10C and light weight,if it take a 12C-15C rating to run at 10 C so be it.

Charles
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Old Jan 07, 2006, 10:53 PM
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Fayetteville, NC
Joined Dec 2002
2,239 Posts
I have a plane I want a 20C battery in. I like my Alfa Mig to go fast. On a TP 1320 4S PL, it screams. Also draws more than 20 amps. Not many other choices fit the bill. A lower discharge, larger capacity, higher weight battery would not allow the plane to perform the way I want it to.

On my brand-new, just maidened today, Hanger 9 P-47, 4 Apex 3S 2200s (6S2P) do very well, and saved me in initial purchase 120.00 over the same offering from TP (with a higher discharge rating, of course).

I am not really having a problem finding either lower priced, lower discharge cells or more expensive, higher discharge cells. I like the choices currently available, and look forward to the advances of the next 18 months eagerly. I do plan to continue to find the most economical cells that will do the job I intend to use them for, however.
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Old Jan 07, 2006, 11:40 PM
Slope and thermal
Christchurch, New Zealand
Joined Apr 2003
402 Posts
opinionated rant...

I fly LMR gliders so I am interested in high burst capacity batteries that hold their voltage. I suspect that many RC application do not need 20+C unless you want the higher voltage that these cells give at all C levels.

I suspect that these high C cells are being driven by the power tool and electric car type industries. Cell phones and laptops will be driving the low C, low weight Lipos. RC most just re-uses what is being developed and available anyway for other higher volume industries.

If you assume that the high C cells will only hold their premium price for 18 months or so, this suggests that Lipos will be cheaply available for all applications soon. For 10C applications it has already happened.

Once "everyone" is using lipos, the fire hazard issue will get bigger. Most consumer products have in built LiIon/Lipo protection that can't be got around and people don't even know is there (ie cell phones). Lipo pack manufacturers may be forced to build in protection to be allowed to sell their product. This may reduce the performance/weight benefits we have had.
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 09:46 AM
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Huntington Beach, CA
Joined Dec 2004
481 Posts
For me, price is always a factor. I don't need the lightest Lipo out there, as they are all lighter and more powerful than NiMh (which is the main goal). But, I don't fly planes, I drive RC cars. I'm even looking at 8C packs right now because their cost is so low! The performance will be great, and compared to NiMh the runtime will be longer and voltage will be higher (lower weight too).
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 01:29 PM
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East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
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Absolutely.

You have seen responses from Charles, on 3D flying, a hotliner and performance sailplane man - where high discharge cells to give high burst poower are very handy.

I am not in that class. Scale and vintage and fun is where its at for me.

If I limit peak rates to 10C, I can still get totally unscalelike climbouts or enough speed and thrust for fully vertical aerobatics.

That generally gives me aboutr 3C in the cruise - 20 minutes of flight, which is nice. Because landing after 10-15 means the packs are not exhausted, they charge up quicker and last longer.

To push the envelope a little further - to say 4C average, 12C peak..would be slightly to my advantage..but beyind that? Total waste of money.
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 02:43 PM
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Austin Tx
Joined Jul 2005
1,861 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton
We see more and more battery manufactures advertising that they have a 20C to 40C burst rate lithium battery, Some we know and some we never heard of.
Is there really a want or need for 20C rate batteries other than for Hot Liner's
From all that I have read here on the Group and by others, Give us a good 12C 18 burst at a good price and we will buy them. I have two large planes, One 19 1/2 pounds and the other 11 pounds both flying on 8C batteries and doing great.
Some of the smaller 3D planes need a good 12C rate but I don't see where a 20C would do more than add maybe 1/4 volt per cell under a load. Is that worth 2 times the money to get ???
Manufactures if you are wanting to get a good hold on the Lipo market, Supply what people really want.
Just my thoughts

Milton
I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. To me it is a must to have cells than can finally deliver what I need for the 10-12 minutes I need. I fly hard 3D and push my equipment and myself hard and don't like nor want limitations and after running a true 15-20C pack I can finally take my motor and esc to the limits and beyond. After owning the 20C packs and verifying it on an Astro watt meter I will never buy anything less..to me it's a waist of money. This is just what works for me and are just my thoughts...I probably did not need the 5.3 V-8 in my truck either but as long as it was an option..I took it and would never buy a V-6 ..stupid analogy maybe but it's what came to mind.

Boss
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 04:22 PM
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Huntington Beach, CA
Joined Dec 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss248
I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. To me it is a must to have cells than can finally deliver what I need for the 10-12 minutes I need. I fly hard 3D and push my equipment and myself hard and don't like nor want limitations and after running a true 15-20C pack I can finally take my motor and esc to the limits and beyond. After owning the 20C packs and verifying it on an Astro watt meter I will never buy anything less..to me it's a waist of money. This is just what works for me and are just my thoughts...I probably did not need the 5.3 V-8 in my truck either but as long as it was an option..I took it and would never buy a V-6 ..stupid analogy maybe but it's what came to mind.

Boss

Some of us aren't like that . But, your opinion is welcome (undoubtedly), as many have the same thoughts as you.
Others like me don't always require so much. 'Course if I had the money to buy a 15C Lipo, then I would still buy a 10C and then get something else. Just my way of doing things .
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 06:18 PM
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East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetalMan
Some of us aren't like that . But, your opinion is welcome (undoubtedly), as many have the same thoughts as you.
Others like me don't always require so much. 'Course if I had the money to buy a 15C Lipo, then I would still buy a 10C and then get something else. Just my way of doing things .
Put it another way, in reality, would you rather have a jaguar and a truck, both, or a lambhorgini.

Or a wife, family, and a Nissan.
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 06:31 PM
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Auburn Ga.
Joined Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss248
I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. To me it is a must to have cells than can finally deliver what I need for the 10-12 minutes I need. I fly hard 3D and push my equipment and myself hard and don't like nor want limitations and after running a true 15-20C pack I can finally take my motor and esc to the limits and beyond. After owning the 20C packs and verifying it on an Astro watt meter I will never buy anything less..to me it's a waist of money. This is just what works for me and are just my thoughts...I probably did not need the 5.3 V-8 in my truck either but as long as it was an option..I took it and would never buy a V-6 ..stupid analogy maybe but it's what came to mind.

Boss

10 - 12 minuts on a let say 2200 1P pack is only 5-6 C discharge rate.

Milton
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 06:38 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,833 Posts
As vintage has show / pointed out many times ,often paralleled cells or packs of a less C will kick the higher C rated cells butt. When I need 30 or 40 amps I run 2 - 3S TP Prolite 1320s in parallel. If I need more capacity I run 3 or 4 in parallel. I do not like having dedicated packs for a single aircraft. I like having building blocks which can create the power source for many applications.
If there was such an animinal (LiPolY ) which could hold 3.2 volts under a 8C cont. load provide 20 second burst to 15C and deliver 95% plus of its rate capacity it would fill the needs of most non competive flyers but then it would be rated as a 12-15C with 20C burst most likely because it sounds better. .

Charles
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 06:46 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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Quote:
10 - 12 minuts on a let say 2200 1P pack is only 5-6 C discharge rate.

Milton
Very true as flight averages go and most of my Foamies fly right at 5-6 amp average which with at 850 -1320 is 4.5-7C depending on the battery capacity. Thing is a 6C 1200 will provide very poor performance compared to a 10-13 C 850-1320. A 8C 1500 provides plenty of power but most weigh so much that they drag performance down. A fair 1700 C provides great power , better and long than the C 1320 but the extra weight turns a nimble Der into a sports plane.

There is no one size fits all and provides the best performance,value.

Charles
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