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Old Jan 06, 2006, 08:31 PM
J_R
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Corona, CA
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Should the AMA accept the less than $1000 per year for a spot on it's website?

Should the AMA accept the less than $1000 a year for the link on the main website page of the AMA web site directing visiors to an outside concern for classified ads?
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_R
Should the AMA accept the less than $1000 a year for the link on the main website page of the AMA web site directing visiors to an outside concern for classified ads?
Only if it replaces the scammy unsolicited DVD thing.

Abel
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 09:10 PM
J_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranger
Only if it replaces the scammy unsolicited DVD thing.

Abel
The DVD, in my opinion, had potential to be a good program. It cost the AMA nothing. That said, it was horrible. No one knew that four dunning letters would be sent, and yes, they EC as a group and/or the HQ management should have known just exactly what was involved before agreeing to the program. At this point, I find zero support for the progam within the AMA leadership as it came to be structured.

On the other hand, the anomisity it created aside, the AMA has made a substantial amount on the DVD program. In excess of $50,000 as I understand.

Abel, I have to ask, in the best Pranger tradition, just what does your comment have to do with the topic of this thread
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 09:27 PM
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As long as there are people that send in dues, the "Boys" will always have a job. Look at the NRA- going soft on Second Amendent Rights, but, Wayne LaPierre knows, sume dupes will still send in money, even after guns are confiscated, and he will still have an income, and a nice office, built from NRA dues.
Every one has his(sic) hand out- vote them out? Nobody wants to take the job- these guys are professional politicians- they don't have to worry about income- leeches always get food some where. You, on the other hand, still have to pay bills, while on the election trail.
Don't like it, you got a vote, yes? Organize. ( Takes a lot of effort, and time, and you know what the ol' lady will say about that ). They on the otherhand, have already trained the "family" to put up with it. " That is what Daddy does".
Save your breath, pay your dues, and shut up. You are getting cranked up over something that is already in place. And, it isn't going to change. It is the"system".
Sorry, but that is the bare truth- I know it hurts, but this is only a small representation of our federal government. And who votes then, any body? I know, "I didn't vote that bastard in". Well, somebody did.
11 Bravo, out
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_R
<snip>
Abel, I have to ask, in the best Pranger tradition, just what does your comment have to do with the topic of this thread
Jes negotiatin' JR. We might be able to get more than $.0067/member out of this deal, and dumping the annoying DVD fiasco seemed a tangible benefit to bargain for.

Abel
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by widgeteer
As long as there are people that send in dues, the "Boys" will always have a job. Look at the NRA- going soft on Second Amendent Rights, but, Wayne LaPierre knows, sume dupes will still send in money, even after guns are confiscated, and he will still have an income, and a nice office, built from NRA dues.
Every one has his(sic) hand out- vote them out? Nobody wants to take the job- these guys are professional politicians- they don't have to worry about income- leeches always get food some where. You, on the other hand, still have to pay bills, while on the election trail.
Don't like it, you got a vote, yes? Organize. ( Takes a lot of effort, and time, and you know what the ol' lady will say about that ). They on the otherhand, have already trained the "family" to put up with it. " That is what Daddy does".
Save your breath, pay your dues, and shut up. You are getting cranked up over something that is already in place. And, it isn't going to change. It is the"system".
Sorry, but that is the bare truth- I know it hurts, but this is only a small representation of our federal government. And who votes then, any body? I know, "I didn't vote that bastard in". Well, somebody did.
11 Bravo, out
Man, you're going to catch the wrath of Red and Hoss for that one. Hope you're dues in the 700 Club are paid up.

Abel
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Old Jan 07, 2006, 04:36 PM
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Yeah, people tend to over-react when faced with the bitterness of truth. And they hate it when someone sees past the smoke and mirrors. By the way, did you know that every person in prison is innocent? Just ask them.
(later) Please accept my humble apology for that ghastly rant. No excuse for bad manners.
A bit of explanation: I belong to a club with 1000 members. We just had election, and almost every "position" went unapposed; to whit, one member per office position. The election was hardly a month in the past, when those all-knowing extremely vocal members that won't do a thing at anytime,was raising hell about dues to state and national organizations that represent all clubs, on the state and national level. This, of course, is expected. One sees this all the time, from the Federal government elections on down.
A one hour meeting went to 4 hours of 'bitching' about the way things ought to be done. Blast!! The same day, I had to pitition 'His Lordship', the little tin god that runs the neighborhood association, for his interpetation of assoc. rules, in a private matter. ( By the Bye, chaps, this one's name will be submitted for that position at the next board meeting, and My relatives and friends will vote me in. That little Czar is history)
Upon going online to peruse the A M A site, in order to join, I happened upon your question ( I have rcgroups bookmarked for new items of interest), And God forgive a poor sinner, my last nerve was unfortunatly stepped upon. I saw offense when none was intended. It is unfortunate, but I can go from zero to Ass in 2.5 seconds. Seldom happens, don't you know, but, well, there you are.
Like I said, no excuse for a gentleman to be an uncultured boor( God knows, the world is over flowing with them.)
11 Bravo- out
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Old Jan 07, 2006, 05:25 PM
J_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by widgeteer
Yeah, people tend to over-react when faced with the bitterness of truth. And they hate it when someone sees past the smoke and mirrors. By the way, did you know that every person in prison is innocent? Just ask them.
Yeah, 99% of herion adicts eat mashed potatoes. Mashed potatoes cause herion addiction... right?

Don't be quite such a pessimist. Several of the members who haunt this forum have been sucessful in getting changes made by the AMA. Most not earth shattering, but changes never the less. There are ways to have your voice heard, and effect change within the AMA. The leadership is much more open to input than you appear to believe. Raving, ranting, and wringing your hands are not effective tools to facilitate change.

Rarely do we agree with everything the AMA does. You might consider us the "loyal opposition". Stick around, the ride here might be fun... or not
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 12:50 PM
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Dash it all !! I KNEW the mashed potatoe processors were in on the insidious plot to lead the youth of the civilized world into the slavery of the needle ! (Let us not forget to wear our aluminium caps).
All seriousness aside, you are correct- real change comes slowly, and steady wins the race.
I tip my hat to the individuals that slog through the mire of tedious repitition and ennui, just to keep the wheels turning, knowing that it is the glory hounds, trumpet blowers and ( dare we say it?) suck ups , or lackys,that get the spotlight and recognition.
I personally Believe that the satisfaction of a job well done is it's own reward. Still and all, recognition of the efforts of the unsung hero that toils tirelessly, day after day, should be given his or hers due acclaim .
The club I mentioned beforehand has started doing just that-awards, certificates, and such, to let the other members know things don't "just happen".
Cynical, yes, I plead mea culpa, but then, I am an imperfect person in an imperfect world.
I applaud you and your "loyal opposition" for making the seemingly endless and tiresome efforts to hold forth against the flow of complacency. It is easy to qiut.
And a good ride is worth the fare.
11 Bravo- out
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 01:31 PM
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What You mean, Boy person?

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_R
Should the AMA accept the less than $1000 a year for the link on the main website page of the AMA web site directing visiors to an outside concern for classified ads?

JR you are way ahead of this old tortise. I don't know how to answer your question since I cannot find what "visiors" means. Even my old Great Encyclopedic Dictionary does not contain that word, much less this so very incomplete, on-line Merriam Webster.

Now when that word follows the noun-phrase, ".... less than $1000 a year..." superseded by the article adjective, "....the..." making the "$1000 phrase" one complete item, I have extreme trouble defining the meaning of your request. Could you possibly mean: "Should the AMA accept less than $1000 a year ............. directing visitors to.............. ?

If so then I vote absolutelu NOT! More like $6000.00 would be the correct answer. Should your prose remain as you write it, then I have no idea to what I would be voting for, so no vote from here.

Horrace Cain
AMA L-93, IMAA 04598, RCCA 240
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 01:55 PM
J_R
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Corona, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hossfly
JR you are way ahead of this old tortise. I don't know how to answer your question since I cannot find what "visiors" means. Even my old Great Encyclopedic Dictionary does not contain that word, much less this so very incomplete, on-line Merriam Webster.

Now when that word follows the noun-phrase, ".... less than $1000 a year..." superseded by the article adjective, "....the..." making the "$1000 phrase" one complete item, I have extreme trouble defining the meaning of your request. Could you possibly mean: "Should the AMA accept less than $1000 a year ............. directing visitors to.............. ?

If so then I vote absolutelu NOT! More like $6000.00 would be the correct answer. Should your prose remain as you write it, then I have no idea to what I would be voting for, so no vote from here.

Horrace Cain
AMA L-93, IMAA 04598, RCCA 240
Horrace

Couple of things... yes, visitors. Second, I really did not mean to post as it appears. I am having a terrible time figuring out the posting mechanism on RCGroups. Neat excuse for bad spelling?

I am going to try to get a better number, but, as I now understand, it is WAY under $1000, was done in a non competitive way. Deals been in place for a few years, never even gets looked at. One source described the amount as "pennies", but, I really hope that was meant to be factitious.

Hey, what is ansolutelu? Were you tyring to post a poll too?
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 02:39 PM
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I SAY !! J R, here is a perfect example of " pious demagoguery" at it's best. The gentleman body slams you for a typo, and perhaps incorrect sentence structure , then, after dragging you through the mud face down,while kicking you in the ribs, procedes to do the very thing that Horrace ( really Horace, two "r's"?) abhors- to whit, a "typo". Absolutelu ? New word, Horrace? ( Look down, Horrace, your slip is showing).
Really, now, Mr. Cain ,a simple and polite request for further and deeper explaination would suffice. One need not resort to snide remarks and biting comments to 'get the message across'.
Yes, in fact, I, too, would like to hear more on the topic of charging for giving directions. Band width is not cheap, as we all know, so, I guess what I am asking, is, what is the fee now, and what is the " Loyal Opposition's " thoughts on a fair and honest fee?
Be that as it may, I should like to say now that I am merely an " FNG", so to speak, and not one of the 'older and wiser' pillars of the Organization.
Thank you for your time,and Best Regards;
I am, Sir, Your Most Obedient Servant;
11 Bravo-out
By the Bye, Horrace, ( really, now, two "r's?), I have deliberately made a few errors in structure, spelling and syntax. I'm sure you will have an amusing time finding them.
"Prose"? Well, I must say, that use of the word is- "interesting", in the context where it is being used.
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by J_R
Horrace

Couple of things... yes, visitors. Second, I really did not mean to post as it appears. I am having a terrible time figuring out the posting mechanism on RCGroups. Neat excuse for bad spelling?

I am going to try to get a better number, but, as I now understand, it is WAY under $1000, was done in a non competitive way. Deals been in place for a few years, never even gets looked at. One source described the amount as "pennies", but, I really hope that was meant to be factitious.

Hey, what is ansolutelu? Were you tyring to post a poll too?
Question back to you, JR-

How much should AMA be paying RC Universe for the link on the AMA Discussions page of the RCU web site directing visitors to the main website page of the AMA?

.........oh yeah, as the topic has shifted to spelling, syntax, and other aspects of proper grammar, am I spelling 'ulterior' correctly?

Abel

darnitall, I mis-spelled 'smelling'
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 04:53 PM
J_R
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Corona, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranger
Question back to you, JR-

How much should AMA be paying RC Universe for the link on the AMA Discussions page of the RCU web site directing visitors to the main website page of the AMA?

.........oh yeah, as the topic has shifted to spelling, syntax, and other aspects of proper grammar, am I spelling 'ulterior' correctly?

Abel

darnitall, I mis-spelled 'smelling'
ulterior... like outside? looks right to me.

The tale of the RCU AMA forum is kinda interesting. It was started by Marc Vigod, aka RCAdmin when he became upset with the AMA. To say that it was never designed to show the AMA in a good light, I think, is a fair statement. IIRC, his big bone of contention was with the fact that the AMA was doing business with Kranitz at RCO without competitive bidding. Of course, now the two entities have combined.

Here is a post done by RCAdmin, aka Marc Vigod, on Jan 8, 2003 in the RCU AMA forum. Particular note to point three. Surprising what being the one who benefits does to ones point of view.

Interestingly, Jim Bourke of RCGroups seems to hold his feelings on issues like this close, and encourage a fair presentation of facts.

******
01/08/03
******
To me it's not the money...it is how it is used. Whether the dues were $20 or $200 a year I couldn't care less (ok...I'm in the business now so I can write it off but still...).

I'll make some bold statements here. Again strictly my opinion. Some will totally agree and others will strongly disagree.

If I had to run the AMA show I would make some changes to clean house.

First, there are certain individuals that should no longer be in the AMA as they are not serving the true needs of the members. I won't name who they are but I will be gunning for them over the years to inform the AMA members what they have done, why it was not a good thing and who they can vote for to replace them.

Second, (sit down!) I would sell off the AMA building and property. It is used by less than 1% off the AMA population each year which is not serving the needs of the majority. It costs the other 99% lots of money and it should be gone. Sell it off along with the land. Move the administrative staff into an office park or office building somewhere and save a ton of money each year. Use the proceeds from the sale to invest properly and build the coffers of the AMA up. 10 million a year at 5% throws off 500 grand tax free for a non profit org. That alone would pay for all office expenses and then some plus leave a pile of reserve cash.

Where do we have the AMA events if Muncie site is gone? Rent out an airport or giant field somewhere in the country. Who cares....there are plenty of places to hold these events without the need for the giant bill associated with carrying muncie and it's new building. For the 99% of members who don't use it, never will and will never go there it is a joke.

Third, put items out to bid. AMA has recently been following a disturbing trend of not putting items out for bid. I don't believe they bid their insurance quote out to anyone and they didn't bid other things out either. Go figure.

Fourth, re-evaluate the administrative staff to see if they are overstaffed or not. In old organizations they tend not to run lean and mean...just a guess that the AMA might be this way but sending in an efficiency expert would tell the tale just how overstaffed they are and where they could computerize tasks or outsource perhaps to save a ton of money.

Fifth, I would cut the "magazine" down to quarterly. If what people tell me is true nobody really reads it. Yes there are some who do and enjoy it but I think more of the membership rather than less does not. They also would not mind if it only came 4 times a year or had the option to get it online to save costs...I would, if at the very least...put the magazine completely online and let members opt out of the mailing of it. No more printing costs or mailing costs...this is the information age...get out of the stoneage and use it today! Why is it 2003 and they still have not done this? I like results not excuses.

That's it for now...I could go on but those are some controversial issues that I'm sure will please many and ruffle the feathers of some. Remember...just one mans opinion here on all this stuff. If you did all I said above I'm sure you could cut the dues down perhaps by 1/3 to 1/2 or more...who knows. Not that $58 is alot but I'm sure most would be concerned how it is spent.

I'll use an extreme example (fictitious of course) to illustrate: if Dave Brown flew on an AMA corporate jet to get from A to B for $8000 per flight on OUR dime versus $8000 going out to an insurance claim. I'm sure we would care less about the $8000 if it were being used for the claim but we don't want to pay 8 grand for dave to fly in a chartered corporate jet to go to a meeting or a meet of some kind.

Remember...it's funny what we can get used to and "think" is normal...

_____________________________

Marc
RCU Site Admin
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by J_R
ulterior... like outside? looks right to me.
Ulterior as in the context "ulterior motive."

Your illustration is more than 'definitive,' it is 'illuminating.'

Abel
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