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Old Jan 08, 2006, 08:42 PM
H2OFLY
Portland Oregon USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrow5
.....just dreaming TL, just dreaming. Terry that might have been Jan Hermkens from Holland, he did visit the UK show circuit with his Sunderland a few years back. The other exponent of large flying-boats in UK then was Dr. Jeremy Shaw who had various models including a very large Grumman Albatross (or was it a Widgeon?). Martin , I hope you go ahead with Mayo.
I am remembering Dr. Jeremy Shaw. I believe he did a Walrus; thought he did a large Short flying boat, also.

Terry
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Old Jan 09, 2006, 05:50 AM
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During my 25 yrs within this hobby there have been very few model airplanes that have caused the hair on my neck stand on end during a low flyby......This truly awesome airplane was one of them.

Also, The concept of differential throttle control is not new, ......there's also the issue if your flying from lakes /reservoirs for the supply of water of pollution and noise.[/I]

I believe the sounds are part and parcel of the total experience...the fat blatting dopplered effect of four Enya 80s passing you down the beach made

Im not so sure I concur with your "Scale" comments, i.e. as an enthusiastic novice electric flyer myself I find the *lack* of sound to be even *more* unscale like, thats just a personal observation.


Yes, I've seen Hal Norrish flying his Sealand at Shuswap its a great flying airplane. I'm a great admirer of Ivans work[/QUOTE]


No real disagreements here an awesome model, built for the love of it all - it's the Ted and Ivan's of this world that really make you think could I do something like that.......my scale comment was only a minor observation bought about by the fact that on so many glow models part or all the motor ends up showing.
As to throttle steering it has been around for a very long time its just easier to arrange for electric, there's also the on off/reverse possibility with electrics.....it just gets heavier and more complex if you try it with ICE motors and some times the power ratio goes a bit too far.....true that's what the throttles for ......and yes I do also have a fair few glow and diesel motors to play with....including some yowling banshee FSR Motors and HP's..........as a classic bike fan of old I can fully appreciate the sound factor.

Kestrel I note is Swiss and they have some very, very definite ideas environmental protection .....this is a society where most forms of motor-sport are officially frowned upon/banned and if you live in a shared building its very inadvisable to flush your loo at night in some cases....in case you incur the disapproval of your neighbors.
Kestrel Knows his patch as the builder he knows what he has to cope with ...it just might not be an option to go ICE or may limit his flying opportunities more....similar to the reservoirs in the UK/USA in that respect - just possibly a tad more vigorous/extensive shall we say .

I was intrigued by the site of a Cessna 337 on floats when I searched the Shuswap site ....another scale favourite of mine but this was the first I have seen on floats .
As I have to count my pennies more often than many I like/appreciate the free things in life and those who achieve the factor for the minimum outlay....sharing information and ideas is one of the best ways of acheiving this happy state of being.....its one of the things I like about SPADs and Ivans work.
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Old Jan 09, 2006, 06:35 AM
No Guts No Glory
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Switzerland
Joined Feb 2003
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Swiss Motor sport

I agree that e have a very ecological sens in our country. But in 4 years of really heavy model flying I have only had very positive reactions from people. in summer I fly one hour a day in the evening on my field that is in near many houses and two walking ways. Of course most my flying is electric. I do have a 11ccm Helicopter but that has a very good muffler and does not make to much noise.2 strokes are a problem but 4 strokes are no big deal. there was a lot of discussions in the late 70 early 80 because of noise but that has cooled down a lot. Still mutual respect is a corner stone of our society and if you fly irresponsibly people will shout. We have a beautiful country to protect an even if some efforts are overdone the ecological wave of the 70 has left us with every lake and river with drinking water quality. ( just be careful if you see ducks near to where you want to drink... ) ;Motorsports are not been actively forbidden or curbed, but a responsible use is expected.

I agree that building a scale empire class is a one/two year project. I am more interested in building a simple styropor model with 4 speed 300 6v ( 2 in siereis per side) and Gunter props. I will keep you posted on my design. In the meantime a find the discussion very interesting and the models of the other people truly fascinating. I am more and more convinced that most planes look great in the sky without too much effort. Lots of the scale elements are lost in the air. That is not to say that I do not understand the beauty of a scale plane. I also enjoy building scale elements into some of my planes. But this time I only want simple plane. I do not have much experience with water planes but I am very interested...

http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/show...cat=all&page=2
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Old Jan 09, 2006, 07:44 AM
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Switzerland
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3-view from Book; Short aiplaines since 1900

Here a goos 3 view..
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Old Jan 09, 2006, 07:46 AM
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and info

and some size info
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Old Jan 09, 2006, 08:58 AM
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Sorry if I got the motor sport bit wrong kestrel ..blame BBCs Geremy Clakson ....as a Environmental Scientist /Geologist I sometimes suffer a bit of a conflict of interests...but most of that was my regional sence of humour getting the better of me.

Sounds like Eric Payens your man for inspiration in this project............given the curvy nature of a C class foam is a good way to go geared S400s or 480s means it will be cheap effective and as long as the span/wing loading is right the thing should fly great.....endurance will be no problem either judging from Ivans work even on Nimhs.

Its just a construction idea based on a large Herc plan I have 114" .....but why not build a undersize very light inner long box of wood or Correx extended with a upper -keel -to match the profile to the back and suport the tail assembly , then affix a light rigid keel `profile' the length of the water hull to the underside of the box. It protects the bottom of the hull and it allows the whole wing assembly to be bolted down to the fuselage as a hatch for the power and main RC system - its easier to seal as it allows for a flat mating surface/lip to pull the wing down onto perhapse by 4 to 6 plastic wing bolts Thec box itself should only define the inner space and act as an atachment point for the two keels....most of its rigidity /strength should come from the shaped slabs of foam glued to it.

Then build up your blocks of foam on this chassis to carve to shape....I know blue foam is easier to work with in this respect but its heavier so in areas where its going to be thick you could shape it in situ first then hollow out from the back/blind drill holes .....unless you want to go the Martin Mariner route and cut ring slices. asemble, cut and sand ...Free plans and links thread again if you want to see this and your reading.

Depeding on scale/size and transport a one or 3 PIECE WING might be called for keep all the complex stuff fixed to the inner section, use a couple of light fiberglass/carbon fishing rod sections as a tubular spar in the foam wing for a large span, you can route your motor wires down it.
A light ply joining plate for plug in tips outboard of the float line could be useful - easy to replace if dammaged plug in wing tips, +shorter for transport and provides a natural robust attachment point for your floats....

This is just free thinking based on what Ive seen elswhere and playing about with SPAD design principles a bit. I wish I had a working scanner.... but it might give you the key to unlocking the door on building it your own way.
1" to the foot would be a very easy scale ...silly grin .....and S480bbs turning 3.5 or 4 to1 boxes would probably still do it if you make plenty of air spaces in the backs of your foam blocks!
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Old Jan 09, 2006, 09:34 AM
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Some good ideas thanks

Your last post has some good ideas! The keel idea is particularly neat. I still in the first phase of planning. My time line is about 3 month. The moment I can get on the Zürich lake with our boat I want to be ready. For my latest plane ( http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=2#post4850047 ) I used 2 jigs to cut the first block. I am not sure it will work for the empire class, still more thinking is required
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Old Jan 09, 2006, 09:36 AM
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here my jigs

and a side, but the underside of the empire class may make this way to difficult
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Old Jan 09, 2006, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kestrel2003
Your last post has some good ideas! The keel idea is particularly neat. I still in the first phase of planning. My time line is about 3 month. The moment I can get on the Zürich lake with our boat I want to be ready. For my latest plane ( http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=2#post4850047 ) I used 2 jigs to cut the first block. I am not sure it will work for the empire class, still more thinking is required
I've got to get a scanner...I draw /scribble ideas down all the time its like being gagged ....nice little project if you repair the wing try covering it in brown wrapping paper it makes it a lot tougher and the shiny side paints nicely glue it on with PVA glue.

Meantime I will try to figure out a way of getting a few design ideas/scribblings through to you.

Heres a link that might be of interest to some scale fans - Contra rotating props and radial electrics anyone..with or without outrunners
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...246407&page=29
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Old Jan 10, 2006, 09:14 AM
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Basic layout

Kestrel try this to start with I wil talk details later if your interested Sorry if its a bit crude its the first time Ive tried this sort of Paint overlay diagram
The transparency of your 3 view, another of a grid to overlay it, a decent Overhead projector a tape measure and your away..
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Old Jan 10, 2006, 02:11 PM
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Lyon (France)
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Nice project ! You should have a look here : http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328968 it should give you some idea to build your short empire.

Regards
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Old Jan 10, 2006, 07:40 PM
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Sao Paulo, Brasil
Joined Aug 2004
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Kestrel,

This is a nice flying boat.

I recently built a Martin Mars, a very similar flying boat: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=400557

I made it 1:20 scale, i.e. 120in (3.05m) wingspan and is powered by 4 EPS400C-DS with 10x6 props and a 1900mAh 9.6V battery pack.

It only take an extra time to make because it is very big and needed a lot of free space to work on, but the building time from foam blocks to flying was about 32 hours.

Final weight is 2400g (85oz) but it flew slow and nicely because of low wing loading.

Didn't tried on water iet (will try on next 29th) but the sound of 4 props running is great...
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Old Jan 11, 2006, 05:17 AM
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B'ham UK
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C Class

Thanks for adding guys Eric I love that plane I have a picture from a book you might like .....I mentioned you earlier.
Alex I'd lost the saved page for your Mars experiment .. Id like to add it to the Free plans And useful Links Thread?
Ive put this up to help newcomers/ research like myself....if I can persuade a moderator to anchor/sticky it.........do they exist??? The fun factor alone of your Mars warrents its inclusion Alex

Clive
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Old Jan 11, 2006, 07:22 PM
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Sao Paulo, Brasil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airboatflyingshp
Thanks for adding guys Eric I love that plane I have a picture from a book you might like .....I mentioned you earlier.
Alex I'd lost the saved page for your Mars experiment .. Id like to add it to the Free plans And useful Links Thread?
Ive put this up to help newcomers/ research like myself....if I can persuade a moderator to anchor/sticky it.........do they exist??? The fun factor alone of your Mars warrents its inclusion Alex

Clive
Clive, it is an excelent idea to stick some topics on easy to build waterplanes and floats. I will make more pictures and video when try it on water next 29th.

The Short Empire is even better to build, since its horizontal stab has no dihedral (I needed to use 2 servos on Mars) and vertical fin is more simpler then Mars one.

Maybe Kestrel takes more pictures while building then I have, my Mars was almost build in a evening so there was no time to pictures...
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Old Jan 11, 2006, 07:59 PM
hul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airboatflyingshp
Sorry if I got the motor sport bit wrong kestrel ..blame BBCs Geremy Clakson ....as a Environmental Scientist /Geologist I sometimes suffer a bit of a conflict of interests...but most of that was my regional sence of humour getting the better of me.
formula one (and other forms of racing around a circuit) is banned in Switzerland since that accident in Le Mans killed a hundred or so people about 50 years ago. They're discussing lifting that ban now.

Hans
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