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Old Jan 02, 2006, 12:32 PM
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kestrel2003's Avatar
Switzerland
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Short Empire Class "C"

Does anyone have any experience with building an empire class flying boat? I found a lot of Info on real ones on the net (http://www.airwaveyachts.com.au/Aircraft/c_class.html) but little on any model. Not that I do not have to many project already but it is a fine airplane indeed!!! Any comments welcome


(Pics from the net)


ps. I finally found time to read a book I had ordered for xmas, I can only recommned, "Shorts Aircraft since 1900" by C.H Barnes Putnam 1967 ( you can get it over Abbooks.com). I was mainly interested in the short seamew ( another long time project) but was intrigued by the short water planes.
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Old Jan 02, 2006, 04:39 PM
can you land on that ?
Scottish Highlands
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I`ve got a vague recollection that Ivan Pettigrew may have done one. He has plans for a Solent at 82" span for 4 400 electric motors. www.geocities.com/ivansplans The Sunderland on Geoff Reichelt`s site was based on one by Dutch modeller Jan Hermkens and is/was a RCM&E plan from nexus Plan Service (UK). Might be a good starting place for a reverse engineering excercise. Do you know if the glassfibre Reichelt Empire boats were produced for public sale ? Just dreaming ... then a Mercury/Maia composite!!!! If you want a read of Brian Cassidy`s book "Flying Empires" mentioned on the Reichelt site PM me.
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Old Jan 02, 2006, 08:08 PM
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Mercury/Maia??? Wow you ARE brave!!

Recently, I saw film of a C-Class landing in Newfoundland... gorgeous...
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Old Jan 02, 2006, 10:26 PM
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I've actually put the Mercury/Maia 3-views into autocad with intentions to build the combo.

Martin "Too many projects" Hunter
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Old Jan 02, 2006, 10:39 PM
H2OFLY
Portland Oregon USA
Joined Feb 2000
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About 20-25 years ago, a modeler in England build several large (i.c.) flying boats, and I believe one was a Sunderland.

Terry
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Old Jan 03, 2006, 02:49 AM
can you land on that ?
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.....just dreaming TL, just dreaming. Terry that might have been Jan Hermkens from Holland, he did visit the UK show circuit with his Sunderland a few years back. The other exponent of large flying-boats in UK then was Dr. Jeremy Shaw who had various models including a very large Grumman Albatross (or was it a Widgeon?). Martin , I hope you go ahead with Mayo.
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Old Jan 03, 2006, 07:02 AM
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B'ham UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kestrel2003
Does anyone have any experience with building an empire class flying boat? I found a lot of Info on real ones on the net (http://www.airwaveyachts.com.au/Aircraft/c_class.html) but little on any model. Not that I do not have to many project already but it is a fine airplane indeed!!! Any comments welcome


(Pics from the net)


ps. I finally found time to read a book I had ordered for xmas, I can only recommned, "Shorts Aircraft since 1900" by C.H Barnes Putnam 1967 ( you can get it over Abbooks.com). I was mainly interested in the short seamew ( another long time project) but was intrigued by the short water planes.
Hi mate there are plans out there for C class boats......Nexus is off line at the moment. If you want a good set of pics for it or the composite then check out :Seawings in the Free plans and links section I started - you will find more plan views and photos plans and manuals.
Airplane- part 25 is the one that features the big Short boats. colour 3 view of composite watch that one it has a different hull from the rest of the C class boats..RCM&E did a couple of articles a while back on these ships...I will back check those later.

Seawings links page there towards the top you will find the Aussie who built the Giant Sunderlands home page ....his latest project a 10ft C class boat.... oops thats where you started.
check out the links to wasserflug JIC and this for an easyier build method aswell as the Mars build thread where the German guy joins in.
http://www.modelairplanenews.com/cli...ov03/pbm_1.asp
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Old Jan 03, 2006, 07:21 AM
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kestrel2003's Avatar
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Thanks for the link

great images and plans, thanks a lot for the Tip!! I am happy with anything you can find
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Old Jan 03, 2006, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kestrel2003
great images and plans, thanks a lot for the Tip!! I am happy with anything you can find
I believe the Xlist offer plans under their scale section - no pics but try it
http://www.xlistplans.demon.co.uk/scale.htm

The RCM&E was Jan 2005 by the way
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Old Jan 07, 2006, 05:08 AM
can you land on that ?
Scottish Highlands
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The large Sunderland mentioned earlier can be seen on Jan`s homepage www.home.versatel.nl/jan.hermkens/index.htm includes the build pics and some of his other models.
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Old Jan 07, 2006, 07:43 AM
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Coimbra, Portugal
Joined Feb 2000
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I bought a second hand Multiplex Cargo three years ago with the idea of transforming it in a Shorts C-Class flying boat look alike.

The wing should go without major modifications.

A LOT of foam "sculpture" with the rest but it must a very rewarding job.

Three ESC: one for the inner motors and one for each tip motor to avoid a major "assimetry" in the power department or two, one for each wing for simplicity.

From my experience with the HVPs Catalina and HU-16 you do need power diferential to be able to turn in the water in windy conditions. A water rudder isnt enough. The tip float that stays in the water in a turn is the outer one (of the turn), and it acts as a drag inducing down aileron oposing the turn.

Still hope to get the idea implemented one of these years

Cheers,

Joo
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Old Jan 07, 2006, 11:26 PM
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BC Canada
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[QUOTE=kestrel2003]Does anyone have any experience with building an empire class flying boat?


I have not built A Shorts but Ted Russell of Salmon Arm BC has, and it was a beauty...check out the photo below. This is the Shorts that was featured On M.A.N mag cover some years ago

Ted Belongs to SLAM ..Shuswap Lake Aero modellers..heres their link

http://www.slams.ca/
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 04:51 AM
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nice model

nice model with neat 4 stroke engines!
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 08:48 AM
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Airboatflyingshp's Avatar
B'ham UK
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[QUOTE=Robster22]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kestrel2003
Does anyone have any experience with building an empire class flying boat?


I have not built A Shorts but Ted Russell of Salmon Arm BC has, and it was a beauty...check out the photo below. This is the Shorts that was featured On M.A.N mag cover some years ago

Ted Belongs to SLAM ..Shuswap Lake Aero modellers..here's their link

http://www.slams.ca/
Great pic I put up a link to that very same model from a site called Strictly scale yesterday but its not as good as the pic you've put up here..a big beaut of a model...but a difficult colour to spot on a dull day over water.
I have IP's Martin mars plans and that incorporates a differential throttle steering system of his own low tech design with a big light model its just like the real things from reading the accounts in Corsairville juggling the power to steer the boat on the water was one of the skills pilots had to develop.

I'll chance a little controversy here but given the power ,reliability and endurance of modern electric power systems...not to mention the lower cost an electric power on a boat like this its going to look/perform more scale ......there's also the issue if your flying from lakes /reservoirs for the supply of water of pollution and noise.

Ivan's 70-80" span typically Twins use low tech low powered geared s480 motors and they fly beyond scale watch the Sealand doing aerobatics and can fly for 20 -30 Min's on a single standard 33000Nimh pack ....Ruddermans Mars skips off the water on lowly buggy motors.
See the films.............something this big could fly on geared S700bb and S700bb Neodymes....there's a 14' B29 fortress out there using this sort of set up built by Colin Strauss set up driving massive 15x10 props through 3.24 belt reduction drives each motor typically runs at 23A.......the guy who built it says its so cheap to do and efficient its not really worth going to out-runners even.....witness also-Tony Ninjhuis's monster 14ft Spruce goose using lowly stock Permax S600s and boxes check my links to the UK LMA site water planes page, there's also a report on Bumpy green and RCM&E did a useful article in their....jan 05 issue 4 pages entitled Baptism at Bewl
Nimhs are getting up to the 4,000ma level and with other types of cells the storage capacity is getting huge. Un even power and power outs are rare with elecric hel you can even set up a reverse thrust set up should you wish

Out-runners have got very cheap but the separate controllers issue is the complicating element. The wing loadings are low enough at this size to float around like a glider and it would be undignified not to mention very non scale to rush a Dowager Empress like one of these around too much I will put up a link to a team gear twin can motor set up that gears 2 0r more cans to a single output the same company put four on one for their Giant single float flying Jabberwock sport Bi plane. any way its all grist to the mill `you pays your money and pics your poison'
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Old Jan 08, 2006, 07:51 PM
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BC Canada
Joined Nov 2004
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Great pic I put up a link to that very same model from a site called Strictly scale yesterday but its not as good as the pic you've put up here..a big beaut of a model.

This was a photo I took at a 2004 Shuswap Float Fly. The first time I saw this model fly was at Kalamalka Lake BC around 1988 when it literally stopped the show. During my 25 yrs within this hobby there have been very few model airplanes that have caused the hair on my neck stand on end during a low flyby......This truly awesome airplane was one of them.

Also, The concept of differential throttle control is not new, both expert builders Walter Moller and Ted Russell were two of the first builder/flyers that I ever saw using it in BC, around 20 yrs ago...... there may well have been others, by the way Teds Empire Shorts has this feature too


...but a difficult colour to spot on a dull day over water.

I agree with your thoughts on the color, but personally I found the very large fin on this model served to always confirm its orientation in the air.

I'll chance a little controversy here but given the power ,reliability and endurance of modern electric power systems...not to mention the lower cost an electric power on a boat like this its going to look/perform more scale ......there's also the issue if your flying from lakes /reservoirs for the supply of water of pollution and noise.

I believe the sounds are part and parcel of the total experience...the fat blatting dopplered effect of four Enya 80s passing you down the beach made the experience one I've certainly never forgotten.

I've watched this aircraft in the very expert hands of Ted Russell for almost 18 yrs now and must have witnessed around 50 flights.....I never tire of watching it fly....indeed, "Caledonia: has almost become an old friend.

Im not so sure I concur with your "Scale" comments, i.e. as an enthusiastic novice electric flyer myself I find the *lack* of sound to be even *more* unscale like, thats just a personal observation.


Ivan's 70-80" span typically Twins use low tech low powered geared s480 motors and they fly beyond scale watch the Sealand doing aerobatics and can fly for 20 -30 Min's on a single standard 33000Nimh pack

Yes, I've seen Hal Norrish flying his Sealand at Shuswap its a great flying airplane. I'm a great admirer of Ivans work
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