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Old Jun 06, 2002, 03:06 PM
Registered User
English and Chiness
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New "Bat" Epp combat wing. Fast!

It fly very fast! Expert only!
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Old Jun 06, 2002, 03:08 PM
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Here is what the kit included

Bat information
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Old Jun 06, 2002, 03:12 PM
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English and Chiness
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Cool enought?

It not launch yet, because the mould still on trim.
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Old Jun 06, 2002, 07:22 PM
Brett
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So Cal
Joined Apr 2002
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Looks a bit like the NCFM Bluto...

http://www.northcountyflyingmachines.com/B48.htm
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Old Apr 02, 2003, 06:59 AM
speedfreek
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Newcastle, Australia
Joined Apr 2003
3,230 Posts
This thing is awesome!!

Gidday All,
Got my Bat a couple of weeks ago and Im totally impressed. The speed it flies at is incredible, yet I have flown it in about 5 knots!! Its amazing in light wind. I was worried at first due to the fact it weighed out at 32oz! Its recommended weight is 20oz!
On its maiden flight, it was blowing 7-8 knots and I expected it to be more of a maiden "glide" than flight. To my surprise, I landed it half an hour later to have a smoke. Unbelievable! The fastest wind Ive flown it in so far is 12-15 knots, and boy was it quick. It does 30m high loops with ease and whistles through the air passing you on a highspeed run. The speed retention of this thing is just awesome! You can pull knife edge turns with ease and you should check out the roll rate. The fastest Ive seen!
Im not convinced that I have dialled it in completely yet, as it is still climbing slightly when put into a dive. The recommended COG is 4" behind the nose. Ive already moved it further behind by 3/8" and it is flying very well other than that. I think its close but will have to play with it some more. Cant wait to fly it in 30 knots. It should go ballistic! Also looking forward to DSing it. Hoping to do so soon.
By the way, the reason why my Bat is so heavy seems to be that I used 2 layers of fiber tape where advised instead of 1. The instructions tell you where, not how much. Fortunately, my extra tape has probably helped its performance in the end. There is no way my Bat would have half the energy retention without the extra weight, and its stability is excellent. Best of all, the extra weight actually helps in light wind, as it penetrates like a sailplane and "finds" lift by covering a lot of sky fast. It flies almost twice as fast and smoother than the most other EPP wings in low wind. I was pulling loops in 8 knots!
All I can say is that Im very very happy with the overall performance of this plane. I was originally going to buy the Bluto because I wanted its performance, and after reading many of its reviews, I believe the Bat is very similiar (definitely a DS machine). The kit was excellent (nothing extra to buy other than glue) and the wings are very well finished. My only criticism would be the very basic building instructions. Although the diagrams made it very easy, the written instructions to back them up were inadequate. However, in saying that, you can work most of it out on your own. With the problems I wasnt sure about, I got all the help I needed from Ming Lou at Windrider.



All the best. Wazza
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Old Apr 02, 2003, 10:18 AM
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Lake Macquarie, Aust.
Joined Dec 2002
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Hey warren, I missed out on sunday at the slope due to having to go to a bloody family lunch!!!

Thanks for text messaging me to tell me how good it was!!! All i could do was watch the wind go by.

I'll second the performance of warrens bat, It's a bloody quick bit of gear. I think all the weight helps!
Someone on the slope said it looked like a p51 wing without the p51 and it's a fair comment.

Cheers
Paul
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Old Jul 05, 2003, 11:42 AM
I just want to fly.
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United States, CO, Thornton
Joined Jan 2002
814 Posts
A new Bat is Born

I just picked up a Bat on Ebay. From what I have read, it seems like a fast booger. Can anybody give me advice on the radio equipment used? What other things should I look out for. I will post pics when I am finished.

Thanks
Sapok
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Old Jul 05, 2003, 12:34 PM
Feeling FrSky
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United States, CA, Santa Barbara
Joined Feb 2003
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I think my favorite parts are the fins...LOL. Man, for an expert-only plane the fins make it look kinda dorky (no offense Ming!) If I got one I would definitely have to put some more "macho" looking fins on it. But hey, I'm an American, is anyone suprised?

If it works well, of course, that's all that matters. It certainly looks pretty fast from the picture posted. I look forward to reading additional flight reports once a few more make their way across the pond!
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Last edited by surfimp; Jul 05, 2003 at 12:39 PM.
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Old Jul 06, 2003, 01:07 AM
speedfreek
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Newcastle, Australia
Joined Apr 2003
3,230 Posts
Gday Sapok,
I have made 3 Bats and I recommend you dont follow thae standard building instructions. Mings technique is fine but it doesnt bring out the full potential of the plane. Instead, you will need to put the spar provided on the BOTTOM of the wing, and put another spar across the TOP from wingtip to wingtip. Its not stiff enough without at least a full spar completely across the top.
Then completely cover the WHOLE plane in 1 covering of fibertape. Put an extra 2 layers along the front section of the wing from the spars to the leading edge. Then out about 7 or so layers over the beak.
This may all seem a little excessive compared to Mings instructions, but believe me it works. The final weight of the plane will be around 1 kilo but it will still fly in about 6 knots, and will be totally ballastic in medium to high wind!! I DS mine and its been as fast as a JW!! You will have to add heaps more lead to balance it (about 360g) and will have to enlarge the ballast bays to the side to accomodate it.
Check out the Forum at Windrider for some of my right ups. By the way, I only use standard size radio gear.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you need some more info.

Regards,



Warren Green
Newcastle
Australia
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Old Jul 06, 2003, 04:45 AM
speedfreek
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Newcastle, Australia
Joined Apr 2003
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PS. Just thought I should mention that you will need a digimix (a variable end-point mixer) to fly this plane. You will not fly it with a standard 100% proportional mixer. You will get away with a 50% mixer for the elevon throw, however full adjustment will help you dial in the throws. You will find that these types of planes (plank-like planes - Bluto, Beetle) will hyperstall, which is a quickly recovered stall that repeats like a pumping motion. These is the plane stalling because of too much elevon input (too much up) for the planes airspeed. You can avoid this by using less input while flying at low speeds. and you will surprise yourself on how little input you really need to get it turning, and youll fly smoother and faster because of it.

I hope to have a fully detailed set of construction photos on our new website Speedfreeks.com which will be running soon. We are specialising in DSing and slope. We will also have video and a radar gun soon to document our assualt on the foamie speed record.

All the best.



Wazza
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Old Jul 06, 2003, 10:12 AM
I just want to fly.
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United States, CO, Thornton
Joined Jan 2002
814 Posts
Thank you Alkoo,

I ususally put tons of tape on my foamies, if anybody has seen me fly, then can attest to my ability to land a glider, nose first multiple times usually while barely avoiding other pilots. but thank you for the input. I will go and scout-out another spar for my new plane. I don't plan on doing much DS'ing with it, at least that is what I tell my self. I might use it as a trainer to learn how to DS, but....that isn't in the plan right at the moment.

I will keep the 'zone informed as to its how it flys.

Thanks,
Sapok
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Old Jul 06, 2003, 11:14 AM
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Hong Kong
Joined Jun 2002
4,657 Posts
Dear All

One of the reason I don't add the 2nd spar included to the Bat kit is, the 2nd spar need very long like 45 inch, how can I ship this longer spar together with the Bat packing box? any comment?
I suggest the basic kit come with only one 24 inch or 30 inch 6mm spar, if you like the twin spar design, send me US$15 and I ship you one 45 inch long spar.
Please also see the Hong Kong F3F competition on 6th July by link:
http://www.windrider.com.hk/forum/forum2.cfm

Thank,
Ming Lou
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Old Jul 07, 2003, 04:33 AM
speedfreek
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Newcastle, Australia
Joined Apr 2003
3,230 Posts
Ming,
There is one very easy and simple solution to your problem. Use 2 spars on top with a joiner. I re-built my first Bat using 2 spars and joined them using a 30mm length piece of 3mm fiberglass rod and epoxy. The top spar actually works in compression (pushing the spars together) so a join is fine on the top. You could just supply 3 of the standard length spars and 2 of them can be joined, cut to length and used as the top spar.
Problem solved!! But I have to stress Ming, the top spar needs to extend to about 10mm from the wingtip. The last spar you sent was only 1 metre and I have to now buy another spar and join them. If the spar doesnt extend that far, the wings bend after the spar at high speed.
Glad I could give you some ideas Sapok. Even if you dont DS your Bat, I guarantee it will be the fastest on the front side. Dont be afraid of excess weight with the Bat. Mine weigh 1kg and 1.14kg!!The airfoil on this thing is amazingly efficient and it will still stay up when everyone else (EPP Combat Wings) is grounded provided you keep the Bat's airspeed. Thats the trick. Once you have that mastered you will really see the Bat perform.

Regards,


Wazza
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Old Jul 08, 2003, 03:30 PM
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Hong Kong
Joined Jun 2002
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Bat improvement

Alkoo

If the Bat can really fast as you said......
I should use my Bat for F3F!
Thank for your time on Windrider product!
and keep improvement our Bat.
Would you please share your Bat photo here?

Ming Lou
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Old Jul 08, 2003, 08:50 PM
speedfreek
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Newcastle, Australia
Joined Apr 2003
3,230 Posts
Rebuilt Bat

Hi Ming.

When I say its fast, its the fastest foamie around that I have seen. As for composite models, they are in another league.

Why dont you try making a Bat using my instructions and find out for yourself. Im very interested to know what you think, especially after comparing it to a Bat using your building technique. You may have a better opportunity to compare it against other models as well to give a better indication of its true performance. A comparison against a Bluto would clarify the issue.
So far I have compared it to Zagis, Tornados, Fatboys, Canterbury PC9 and the JW. I should also mention that I had speed runs in 15 knots with a Zipper and kept up with it all the way except in the climb back up, where its lesser drag helped it recover only slightly more height!! I must add that in higher wind I think the Zipper would have left me behind though. Still, that gives you an idea of my Bats speed.
Here is a recent photo of my 1st Bat that I have now rebuilt. This Bat has taught 2 guys how to DS, and has been crashed at very high speed more than 100 times. I rebuilt it with the twin spar system and it weighs 1140g!! So far, it has flown faster than my new Bat that weighs 1000g. Not sure how it will fly on the front side in low wind with that weight. So I am now considering a ballast tube in the next Bat.

Regards,


Wazza
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