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Old Jan 05, 2006, 10:58 PM
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DangerBird's Avatar
Warm-Sunny-no-Wind, Az.
Joined Dec 2003
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Easy Star stock motor life?

Hi Guys!

Just curious as to what everybody is seeing regarding the longevity of the stock setup. I have about 70~ flights on mine running a 8 cell GP1100 CBP pack. (have 5 of them). I am noticing a drop in power pulling the same current as new. It was also putting out this fine black brush dust onto the prop. I blew it out with my air compressor (got to love a real compressor) and a little black puff came out. I would estimate a 15% drop in performance. BTW the motor was broke in under water and I do lube the bushings with a light oil every so often. I have 5 more motors as spares.

Wish I could see the brushess but I would need to pull the glued in motor and if I do that I will just replace it.

Gotta love this plane. Had a few boomers last Sunday and it was seriously specked out. Bystanders had a hard time finding it in the sky even when I was pointing at it. I could not look away cuz I wasn't sure I could find it again! Some down trim and it slowly came back into easier viewing range as it warmlined around the sky. Picked up 2 more rides like that in the same flight. 1 hour flight time.

Rgds,

Mike
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 12:00 AM
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Jurgen Heilig's Avatar
53859 Niederkassel, Germany
Joined Sep 2000
18,757 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniBoy
Jurgen:

On your suggestion, since the foam is Elapor, I will try the foam floats on the frozen snow / ice, and report back to you on the results ... easier than making skis !!?! My EasyStar sure did take her share of beatings .. with NO ill effects !! .. Do you have any idea when the MiniMag will be available in the U.S. ??

Thanks for your help,

Russ
Hi Russ,

When I did high speed touch and goes with my Easy Star last January, the sharp frozen snow/ice caused some minor scars at the bottom of the fuselage - nothing to worry about.

I have no idea when the MiniMag will be available in the US - recommend to ask MPX USA.

Jürgen
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 12:04 AM
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Jurgen Heilig's Avatar
53859 Niederkassel, Germany
Joined Sep 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerBird
Hi Guys!

Just curious as to what everybody is seeing regarding the longevity of the stock setup. I have about 70~ flights on mine running a 8 cell GP1100 CBP pack. (have 5 of them). I am noticing a drop in power pulling the same current as new.
...
Rgds,

Mike
Hi Mike,

Using 8 GP 1100 is pushing the motor very hard and the loss in power could be due to gradual demagnetizing. My guess: 1000 flights on 6 cells, 500 on 7 cells, XXX on 8 cells.

Jürgen
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 01:06 AM
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United States, MA, Webster
Joined Feb 2003
2,379 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig
Hi Russ,

When I did high speed touch and goes with my Easy Star last January, the sharp frozen snow/ice caused some minor scars at the bottom of the fuselage - nothing to worry about.

I have no idea when the MiniMag will be available in the US - recommend to ask MPX USA.

Jürgen
Hi Jurgen:

I have the "belly' of my EZ Star covered with 3M sign vinyl .. works well to protect the foam. Most of my landings are pretty much "greased", OR stalled, so I don't have much fear of damaging the little "sweetie" !!!

I will be looking forward to the MiniMag, as it seems to be the perfect aircraft for my lake / ice flying ... Thank you again for your input ...

Russ
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 11:26 AM
orb
Registered User
Joined Nov 2004
7 Posts
Covering material

I have had a lot of luck using carbon and kevlar veil with water based polyurethane as the resin on my Easystars. I went a little overboard on my first Easystar and after many crashes with packaging tape as the covering material(plane was in so many pieces it was like a jigsaw puzzle putting it back together again), I covered the whole thing with carbon & kevlar veil. That plane became bullet proof but a little on the heavy side. A nose dive at full throttle 250' up drove the plane into the ground about 2" but did absolutely no damage.

My second Easystar I only covered the critical areas (nose and bottom, engine pod, wings, and tale section of the fuselage) and it flies just like stock but with super crash strength characteristics.


Orb
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 12:05 PM
3 Blades to the Wind
Shaun Hendricks's Avatar
Atascadero, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
4,085 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerBird
Hi Guys!

Just curious as to what everybody is seeing regarding the longevity of the stock setup. I have about 70~ flights on mine running a 8 cell GP1100 CBP pack. (have 5 of them). I am noticing a drop in power pulling the same current as new. It was also putting out this fine black brush dust onto the prop. I blew it out with my air compressor (got to love a real compressor) and a little black puff came out. I would estimate a 15% drop in performance. BTW the motor was broke in under water and I do lube the bushings with a light oil every so often. I have 5 more motors as spares.

Wish I could see the brushess but I would need to pull the glued in motor and if I do that I will just replace it.

Gotta love this plane. Had a few boomers last Sunday and it was seriously specked out. Bystanders had a hard time finding it in the sky even when I was pointing at it. I could not look away cuz I wasn't sure I could find it again! Some down trim and it slowly came back into easier viewing range as it warmlined around the sky. Picked up 2 more rides like that in the same flight. 1 hour flight time.

Rgds,

Mike
Dangerbird: (should be my moniker when I'm flying... that or "LOOKOUT!")

"Stock" can motors like these have very HARD brushes but they wear out fast enough. On 8 cells, I'm surprised you got 70 flights out of it. I'm not as optimistic as Jurgen is on the longetivity of the motor, but it's very common to lose performance over time on a standard brushed motor. If you are noticing the performance loss, you've already lost more performance than you realize, probably beyond 15%. Most folks have a hard time spotting anything below 10% and a sharp eye would catch the loss around there. Assuming you have that sharp eye, then I would recommend replacing the motor the moment you notice the significant loss. Just 10% is enough to make the plane harder to fly in light winds.

We're talking about a $6 (US) motor here, so switching it out is fairly cheap cost wise, but does take some time. If you really want to use 8 cells, I'd bump up to the 7V motor from the 6V one. It will last you longer next time around.

Brushless brings up a religious discussion around here and there is a ton of info in the past threads on it. Earlish on in #22 there was another 'rousing round about it. My EZ* is brushless powered, and of all oddities, outrunner powered. Most are inrunner powered. As you can tell by my avatar, I like 3 bladed props and the outrunner swings it more efficiently than the inrunners do so it does well for me. I can even recommend the setup for beginners because on 2 cell lipo's it flys very stock like but has a bit more authority than the stock motor. On 3 cells, it rips, not as fast as an inrunner powered one, but then again, I pull 5-9amps on my setup, most of the higher powered inrunners swinging 6" props draw 20-30amps. You also need to reinforce the plane to deal with the power increase. It will fold your wings for you on a pull out or negative G maneuver at higher speeds. It's happened to a couple of EZ*'s here. That's why folks start talking the Scotch Extreme tape or as above... glassing.

If the postage wasn't as much as the motor... I'd send you mine, I have no need for it. It sits in a box, totally virginal. It was never mounted in the plane. Mine started with a Super Cobalt 400 installed, tons of power but sucked the batteries dry! That's why I went brushless. Okay, bordering on religion again here... I'll bail out now!
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 12:14 PM
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Joined Mar 2004
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ATAC, I'm about to do a build of another E* with tape! I'll start a new thread for it. The comment about tail feathers is partly correct - you should really glue ONE side of the rudder to the fuse: tape will handle the rest. And for glue, despite Jurgen's comments to the contrary (we seem to have agreed to disagree in anotehr thread), I'm using UHU Creativ (basically the same as GWS contact cement). And I'm taping the motor in, too!
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 12:49 PM
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jcosta's Avatar
Lisboa, Portugal
Joined Jan 2004
2,882 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Hendricks
"Stock" can motors like these have very HARD brushes but they wear out fast enough. On 8 cells, I'm surprised you got 70 flights out of it.
Mine had more than 150 flights with 8 cells without significant loss of power. Then I did about 10 flights with 3S Li-Ion packs and it became very weak. Replacing it took about 15 minutes... I cut the pod open by the seam, pulled the motor out and it was being glued back in 5 minutes.
I do regret not having installed a 7.2V motor, so I could use the Li-Ion packs. Probably will do it one of these days...
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 12:56 PM
3 Blades to the Wind
Shaun Hendricks's Avatar
Atascadero, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
4,085 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcosta
Mine had more than 150 flights with 8 cells without significant loss of power. Then I did about 10 flights with 3S Li-Ion packs and it became very weak. Replacing it took about 15 minutes... I cut the pod open by the seam, pulled the motor out and it was being glued back in 5 minutes.
I do regret not having installed a 7.2V motor, so I could use the Li-Ion packs. Probably will do it one of these days...
Welp, then Jurgen's stats may be right. Those are VERY hard brushes like are found in 'industrial' brushed motors which would tend to lower motor performance. I know on 'replaceable' brush performance motors, you get 10-15 batteries through the motor before you need to change brushes. My 540 17T high performance motor chews up brushes really fast but they are soft brushes that allow massive amps to dump to the commutator. I also have to lathe the comm flat again before doing that. So, the stock motor seems like it's pretty tough. I guess you don't need a performance motor in just a 'trainer'. It's all us whacko's that like to push the limits...
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 01:13 PM
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Joined Mar 2004
5,237 Posts
Another 6v option is the QRP reverse timed motor. I wish they made a 7.2 v version.
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 04:37 PM
Registered User
Trinity, FL
Joined Jan 2003
458 Posts
Hi everyone,
I'm still flying EZ* #2 with a Mega 16/7/7. Use only LiPo 2s2p packs. Have more flights on this plane than any I've ever owned and it's as powerful as the day it was installed. I would guess somewhere over 300 flights and many more to go (I hope).

Was the first brushless I ever owned and there was quite a discussion as to how foolish I was to spend that amount of money just to upgrade a $54 EZ*.
I nolonger own any brushed motors.

I flew with nothing but brushed for many years and will admit I had just as much enjoyment with them. If treated properly (proper size props and proper number of cells) they were rather hard to wear out.

Jim
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 05:18 PM
all thumbs
Upstate NY, USA
Joined Dec 2005
201 Posts
jwilliam: "I have heard with other radios that they take out the crystal or module so that they aren't really transmitting when they use the radio with FMS and it also saves on batteries. When you use your Spektrum radio is it transmitting? Or is there a way to turn it off?"

With the Spektrum DS6 (and I assume other JR radios,) leaving the power off and plugging in the trainer cord jack puts the transmitter in "slave mode": You get a beep and the display powers up, but the radio does not transmit. Power use seems minimal flying FMS this way, because I've used it for days and left it "on" this way with voltage staying at or above 10V. As I recall, those AM/FM sets of yore work similarly in trainer "slave" mode.

If you modify your EZ rudder for more authority, you may want to do that with the simulator version as well. Here are utilities for doing that easily.
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Old Jan 06, 2006, 05:28 PM
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Joined Oct 2004
836 Posts
I've got dozens of flights on my camera-equipped EZ*, using the stock motor/prop and a 3s2000 TP lipo.
I use sometimes use full throttle for at least 4 minutes to get up to good scenery altitude for the camera...
Click here to watch winter-high-altitude

I haven't noticed any performance degradation, and when my friend fly his new EZ* on 3s lipos with mine, they flew indenticaly, and even the motors sounded in sync at full power...

Granted, is been below 40 degrees about half of these flights, but I also flew it in 70 degree weather without any issues as well.

I am assuming high current is harder on these motors than high voltage is. I measured static amp draw at about 10.2 amps, and I'm sure it unloads a bit in flight.

We've got 2 more easystars at my field also running on 3S lipos, so be able to really tell about longevity soon.

I did get a reverse timed QRP SP 400, will this draw more amps than the stop battery does? What do you figure it's lifespan to be, based on my success with 3S lipos on the stock motor?

Finally, we use a 2" strip of clear packing tape from nose to tail to reduce wear, tear and friction when taking off and landing on the snow and ice.
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Old Jan 07, 2006, 02:15 AM
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Jurgen Heilig's Avatar
53859 Niederkassel, Germany
Joined Sep 2000
18,757 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob10000
...
I am assuming high current is harder on these motors than high voltage is. I measured static amp draw at about 10.2 amps, and I'm sure it unloads a bit in flight.
...
If you only get 10.2A static on 3 cells, you either use a smaller prop than standard, "bad" (= high resistance) connectors, or your battery does not support high discharge currents.

Jürgen
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Old Jan 07, 2006, 10:08 PM
Tied to the whipping post
DangerBird's Avatar
Warm-Sunny-no-Wind, Az.
Joined Dec 2003
2,479 Posts
Hey Jürgen,

It is more like just XX! Attached picture shows the brushes after I sprayed them with carb cleaner to clean the brush dust off. As you can see, the one brush is shot and was about to bite the dust. The commutator is black and worn pretty bad also. I did fly it today but performance was very anemic. A brand new motor has been water broken in and is installed. I just got a few 2S 2000mah lipo batteries and it should run alot longer and cooler. Had to add 1 ounce of lead to the nose to get a good balance but it is still nearly 2oz lighter than with the 8 cell pack. Wife says, "how come you don't just put a brushless on it?"... Maybe I will after this motor croaks.

Shaun,

Thanks for the offer but I still have 5 brand new motors a friend gave me when he went all brushless. The EZ is just one of 10 flyable planes I currently have and is the only one with a brushed motor. I have alot of fun with it and more are starting to show up at our flying site since I have been flying mine. Slow Sticks have been the main trainer/sport plane for several years.

Rgds,

Mike
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