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Old Dec 23, 2005, 08:43 PM
Southern Pride
everydayflyer's Avatar
Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,812 Posts
New Product
Thunder Power 1010C (Charger) & TP-210V (Smart Balancer)

Revised Udgrade link


http://thunderpowerrc.com/html/download.htm



Improvement suggestions.


Max charge rates.



OK I pondered about starting a new Thread for these but the other Threads are full of chit chat , hopefully this one will contain more answers and tech support.

There are no output leads supplied. You will need banana plugs , suitable wire and connector(s) of your choice.


Many users of the TP-205 found that the lettering worn off. To prevent this I used Hobbico 30 min. epoxy applied lightly., works great. I also did this to the lettering on the 1010C above and below the buttons.


Nice photos of outside and inside here..

For latest Revisions check here:


TP-1010C User's Guide in PDF here.

12-31-06 Rev. 2.0d A123 / M1 Support with Ni to follow post here.



Quote:
TP-1010 has 3 discharge termination voltage.
1)3.85V, discharge for storage
2)3.45V, Break-in for 1320s and smaller pack(better way is to break-in with gentle flight at less than 5C)
3)3.3V,for capacity check (99% discharge, only use this function if neccessory)
Charlie
The TP-1010C has multi charge options, which are covered in the User's Manual. One option is Fast Charge This option uses a different charge algorithm and indeed provides a faster charge when a full chgarge is not required. It provides approximately 97% @ 1C / 96% @ 2C / 95% @ 3C.
LiPolys should not be charged at greater than 1C unless clearly stated this is acceptable by the LiPoly manufacture / vendor. Charging at rates greater than 1C may at least reduce their life and may lead to more serious problems.

The TP-1010C charger and V versions of the Smart Balancers use a Safety Cutoff of 4.235V per cell .

This is below that of many other such safety devices.
The PQ PCM has a higher safety cutoff point ( 4.35 +/- 0.025) ,so does the Hyperion LBA 6 (4.30 +/- 0.01) and I believe the DualSky 2S charge guard device does also.





There are updates being made to both of these User's Manuals

TP-1010C Page 2 Discharge power capability:up to 28 Watts ( should be max 2A up to 28 watts better wording IMO) limit means that 2 Amps. is the maximum discharge rate period!. Even with one cell 2Amps. is the limit.

There is a required modification to pre '06 TP PL 4S batteries for use with balancer if 2 are to be charged/ balanced in series , covered in TP Balancer User's Guide.

Page 4 Full charge Beep Should be 3 times or 10 minutes ( not 5 min)


There has been a revision to the 205 which is now the TP-205V. All production models of the TP-210's are the revived model ( TP-210V).

The difference between the 205 and 205V .
TP-1010C used with 205 shows only maximun cell's voltage ,minimum cell's voltage and the difference.
TP-205V and 210V alows voltages of all cells to be displayed.
205 Full Charge Indicator chirps every 30 seconds.
205V and 210V chirps 3 times and stops, Status Light stay on to indicated alarm has been tripped.

Quote:
Pre-2006 TP 4S pack can be use as a single pack with TP205, TP205V & TP 210V balancer.

But in order to use two 4S pack in series using a single 210V balancer, the pack connected to group A port must be modified with pin-5 & pin-6 connected together(or new pack dated 2006).
If a pre-2006 pack is connected to group A port, the balancer flashes/beeps continuously as soon as the second pack is plug in.

TP210V can also be used with two pack in series:2+2, 3+2, 3+4, 3+5, 5+4,5+5 .

Regards,
Charlie
1. Do not connect BANK-1 and BANK-2 connections at the same time.

Series charging / balancing post here.

Premade 6 lead to 4 lead adapter available here.
This product allows you to connect a 2s or 3s Thunder Power battery to a 6pin balancer connector. This allows you to charge two 2s, a 2s and a 3s, and two 3s packs in series using the 210V balancer.

6pin TP male connector on one end, 4pin TP female connector (on circuit board) on other end. 4" long.


Another post showing series balancing / charging of two packs .
By Larry 3215

Yet another way to make 4 pin to 6 pin adapters for series balancing / charging.
This one by Harley

1010C Revisions 1.90

Post by Charlie Wang / Difference between Ver. 1.85 & 1.9 charging.

Rev. 2.0 Post:


Added Link: 4-13-06
Old Thunder Power pack wiring / TP-210( not V) connections

This is different than one supplied with TP-210V balancer and shows more pack configurations.

Firmware Updates




TP 1010C Programing nterface.



Charles
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Old Dec 23, 2005, 09:35 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
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TP 1010C / TP-210V contd.

Quote:
The 95% charge(at 1C) would charge to 4.15V to 4.16V depending on battery condition (I will do more test to comfirm these data)

I recommend Fast charge setting for normal use, Full charge 100% setting for competition and demo use.

Regards,
Charlie
Post by Charlie Wang covering Ver. 1.85 / Ver. 1.9 charging difference.

Post by Charlie Wang Rev. 2.0


Following are some results I have obtained EDF.

Charge/Balance results.

TP-1010C / TP-210V
3S VAMPower 1050 mAh 3S charger set to Full 100% 1A Cells #1 4.19 / #2 4.19 /#3 4.19 Difference 0.000V

TP1010C / TP-205
3S TP PL 730 Full 100% .5A 4.194 / 4.189 Difference 0.005V

3S TP PL 1320 Full 100% 1.0A 4.199 / 4.204 / 4.199 Difference 0.005

TP 1010C only :
1S TP HD 1300 ( old Beta cell)
Discharged to 3.3V @ 2A rate

Full chare 95% setting 3A rate 919 mAh in 21:56
Fast Charge setting 3A rate 957 mAh 24:53

TP1010C / 210V
Post on connecting 2 packs in series & connector modificatuons here.

2 each 3S TP PL 1320 removed from storage ,charged in series at 1.3A rate charger set to Full 100%

At 12.4 V cell#3 4.019 / cell# 6 3.970 Difference 0.049

Source voltage ( per DVM ) 13V amps in to charger 2.6 / at 25 volts , 2.75 amps requored.

End of charge 25.18 V 624 mAh / 43:35

First screen
Cells # 1 4.194 / # 5 5-4.189 Difference 0.005

Scrolling through screens
Cell #1 4.194 / #2 4.194 /#3 4.194 / #4 4.194 / #5 4.189 / #6 4.194

Scrolling explained : When you have a TP 205V /210V connected to the 1010 charger and you press the Sel Button on charger it first displays the highest voltage cell's number and voltage along with the lowest cell's number and voltage plus the difference in these voltages. Sequencial pushes of Sel displays cell numers and voltages in groups of two.
Note: You must read these voltages befor disconnecting anything and before pressing the CHARGE / ENT button.


Fast Charge Test of VAMPower 3S 1050 (same as one above) this battery has just over 100 flights on it.
First discharged on 1010C @ 2A to 3.3 per cell ,cells 3.6X ea. / Discharged cont. on Trition at 2A to 3V per cell (addational 44 mAh discharged) cells now at 3.4X each.I do not recomend discharge LiPolys this deeply but many test I conduct are outside the box.

TP-1010C / TP-210V cahrger set Fast Charge 1A . Charge started Pack voltage display reading 10.544 (under charge)dispaly reading Initial Charge .This stage normaly takes just a few seconds however with these over discharge cells it lasted approx. 4 minutes. During this time cells were within 0.005V and charge rate was between .35-.40 mA. When pack reached approx. 11.2 v charger went to full 1A rate . At 45 min. 725 mAh - 12.5 volt.
At 50 min. 765 mAh -12.6 volts charge rate .85-.94 A. at 60:13 Charge complete 12.54V - 855 mAh - cells 4.175 - 4.180 - 4.175 difference 0.005V.
I know from past experience this battery requires 800-850 mAh to recharge after a typical 11-12 min. flight. I also know that my Tritons or AF 109 at 1A would require 70-80 min. to recharge it to this level.

Follow up on Fast Charge of VP 1050. Let set for 2 hours and voltage had settled to 12.44. Charger set to Full 100% @ 1A ,went to CV mode after approx. 5 seconds , 44 mAh required to top of to 12.59 cell 4.199 /4.194 / 4.199.( Failed to record time, sorry.).

VAMPower 3S 1050
Charger set to Full 95% Charged @ 1A 12.41 - 782 mAh - 49:33
Charger set to Full 100% Charged @ 1A 12.59
Charger set to Fast Charged @ 1A 12.53
For comparison charged on Triton@1A display 12.56 actual by way of an accurate DVM 12.50. Charged on AF 109 @ 1A display 12.60 actual 12.52.

TP Pro LIte 3S 1320 105 discharges

Charger set to Full 95% Charged @ 1A 12.54
Charger set to Full 100% Charged @ 1A 12.60
Charger set to Fast Charged @ 1.3A 12.56
Charger set to Fast Charged @ 2.0A 12.51


TP ProLIte 3S 1320 110 plus discharges
These results after a very unusual event took place with this Battery. Someday I may share this story.

Fast Charge @ 1.3A. at end of charge charger reset to 95% @ 1.3A a total of 6 mAh added ,charger reset to 100% @ 1.3A another 23 mAh added -12.6V

Another run with same LiPoly. FAst@1.3 12.49V -999mAh 52:21
Reset to 100% @1.3A -46 mAh added - 10:44- 12.56V

Top off with Triton @ 1.0A 1 mAh added.
Top off with AF 109 @ 1.0A zero added.

Same pack discharged to 3.3 per cell @ 2A -1141 mAh
Fast @ 1.0A 1105 mAh -12.54V - 1:12:23

Hyperion VL 12C 3S1320 flown to 11.10 open - Fast @2A 12.46V / 1019mAh/35 min.

Hyp. VL 12C 3S 1320 flown to 11.22 open - Fast @ 2A - 12.48V / 932mAh /32 min.
Toped at 100% @ 2A .44 mAh added 12.57.



Addational charge logs
here
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=468


Addational Chargeing loggs by RC Man
1C - 3C

Thanks for time,effort and for sharing.


More to come.

charles
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Old Dec 23, 2005, 09:49 PM
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what's the rated accuracy, i.e. how good does it balance cells? to the .001 volt?

Rhett
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Old Dec 23, 2005, 10:15 PM
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Balance accuracy of TP210V:
For single pack, rated at +/-0.005V (most test show +/-0.003V)
Two pack in series(most test show(+/-0.006V)
Example: 2S pack + 2S pack in series
Example: 5S pack + 5S pack in series

General specifications:
Imput power:11V-15V DC 25Amp at maximum charge current
Charge battery type:Lion or Li-polymer
Charge voltage: up to 10cell/42V
Charge termination: 5 types selectable(including charge for storage)
Discharge termination: 4 types selectable
Over charge cut-off:4.235V**
Auto-imbalance-current control active voltage:0.12V**
Auto -current control reser imbalance voltage:0.01V**
Imbalance cut-off:0.2V**
Discharge power capability: up tp 28Watts(max 2A)
Charge Power capability: up to 210Watt
**Used with balancer and Data cable
Charger come with data cable(#DL250), optical couple.
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Old Dec 23, 2005, 10:20 PM
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Charlie, except users can't connect two 4pin connectors to the 1010.
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Old Dec 23, 2005, 10:26 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draganfly
Charlie, except users can't connect two 4pin connectors to the 1010.
To do so requires a very slight modification to eithe the male 4 pin connector or a 4 pin or 6 pin female. A 6 pin female so modified can be used for either 4 or 6 pin applications. Connector are still poloarized if done correctly.

Notice: There is a major difference between LiPolys being connected in series and being connected in paralled. TP-210V balances 2 ea. LiPOly batteries correctly connected in series not parallel.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=499



Charles
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Old Dec 23, 2005, 10:32 PM
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Using two 2S pack in series likely not a popular set up, with a handy hand, you can actually slide the 4-pin connector to the 6-pin socket (pin-1 to pin-1, pin-5 & pin-6 blank)

Regards,
Charlie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draganfly
Charlie, except users can't connect two 4pin connectors to the 1010.
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Old Dec 23, 2005, 11:01 PM
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is a 10s2p considered two packs even though it's really sold as one, but has two connectors?

Rhett
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Old Dec 23, 2005, 11:03 PM
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10S2P is a single pack
You can balance two 5S2P with a single TP210V+TP1010C
Regards,
Charlie

Quote:
Originally Posted by rroback
is a 10s2p considered two packs even though it's really sold as one, but has two connectors?

Rhett
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Old Dec 23, 2005, 11:12 PM
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It seem more practical for TP to have two five cells connector in place of a big ten cells connector, this way you work with only two types of connectors. You'll see that the last pin of the first connector is short with the first pin of the second connector.
There not much difference between two 5S2P in series than one 10S2P except the lengh of wire between the two groups.
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Old Dec 23, 2005, 11:41 PM
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Thanks for pointing that out. I'll try it Monday.
-Adam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Wang
Using two 2S pack in series likely not a popular set up, with a handy hand, you can actually slide the 4-pin connector to the 6-pin socket (pin-1 to pin-1, pin-5 & pin-6 blank)

Regards,
Charlie
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Old Dec 24, 2005, 08:14 AM
Jim H
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Joined Dec 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer
To do so requires a very slight modification to eithe the male 4 pin connector or a 4 pin or 6 pin female. A 6 pin female so modified can be used for either 4 or 6 pin applications. Connector are still poloarized if done correctly.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=499



Charles

Thanks Charles,

That was just the info I needed. I got my 1010/210 combo yesterday.
And I had Adam drop the extensions in the box before it shipped.
Was sitting here trying to figure out how to charge two 3s packs in series.
You make it look easy.

one question...
"the pack which connects to Bank 1 Group A is the one which connects to the Black (Neg.) side of the series connector"

Does anything bad happen if accidentally reverse these?


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Old Dec 24, 2005, 08:28 AM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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Quote:
Does anything bad happen if accidentally reverse these?

Jim H
Nope, best I remember it just indicated 3S (as in one pack only). Not that I like performing such test but we all make such mistakes from time to time. Charlie did a great good on the safety / startup checks IMO.

Charles
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Old Dec 24, 2005, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer
3S TP PL 1320 Full 100% 1.0A 4.199 /<B> 4.204 </B>/ 4.199 Difference 0.005

More to come.

charles
I am surprised, why 1010C charger allowed the voltage to go over 4.20V?
(either when info was sent by TP205 as max cell voltage, either when sent by TP210V as one of the cells).
Can someone, maybe Charlie, post ansver to single simple question - is there any choice of settings on TP1010C, when no cell voltage never rise over 4.20V?
I know that in this case cell voltages fall to lower values after charge stop.
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Old Dec 24, 2005, 09:48 AM
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4.204V has no long term effect to Li-Poly life, in fact most German charger charge to 4.22V
The Fast charge setting would charge to 4.18V if you prefer.

Regards,
Charlie.


Quote:
Originally Posted by coro
I am surprised, why 1010C charger allowed the voltage to go over 4.20V?
(either when info was sent by TP205 as max cell voltage, either when sent by TP210V as one of the cells).
Can someone, maybe Charlie, post ansver to single simple question - is there any choice of settings on TP1010C, when no cell voltage never rise over 4.20V?
I know that in this case cell voltages fall to lower values after charge stop.
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