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Old Dec 18, 2005, 01:34 PM
edi
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Aerodromerc Albatros Dr.1 34.5" prototype

Well, I just can't delay posting any longer. The postman has done good and brought me with my last batch of kits a brand-new Albatros Dr.1!!! I had not expected these kits before January, and now this wonderful kit is lurking on a shelf waiting for a moment to jump down when the building table - right now occupied by a very nice and almost ready Fokker Dr.1 - will be empty again.

I first started pondering about an Albatros Dr.1 when I came across Jim Horner's marvellous build. I delayed any designing thoughts when Jim told me that he would give his plans away for free (which he has done meanwhile). However, when I looked at them I soon saw that I would prefer to do a lot of things differently. Mind you, I don't want to suggest in the least that Jim did a second-rate job - on the contrary! But after >25 years of modelling I have my own ways of doing things and while I don't claim them to be neither better nor inferior, they work out for me - usually Since I found myself much more in line with Kurt's ways of designing, I just postponed the Albatros for "some day later" imagining that I could rather easily kit-bash one out of Kurt's Albatros D.Va if I would feel like it.

Two months ago or so, Kurt and me had a chat over possible projects and I suggested an Albatros Dr.1 based on his 36" Albatros D.Va. We started talking about designing issues consulting the only two photographs of the original known to us (we made a point of not looking into Jim's plans). A few days afterwards Kurt already sent me a teaser of the plan and now I am holding the ready kit in my hands. It's not simply the superb quality we are used to from Kurt's designs, it looks like an easy-going build, too. I am especially excited about it because I am obviously the culprit of this project and because I was involved into it from the very beginning.

(I realize I should post a picture here, but the building table is full, so bear with me for a while ...)
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Old Dec 19, 2005, 12:46 AM
edi
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I still owe you a picture of the kit. I did count the wings over and over to make sure it's really the triplane
Kurt has really done a beautiful job designing those wings and even the balsa spars with holes for the ip struts are included. Even more wonderful, Alex has taken *hard* balsa for the spars as necessary. Wow. What's coming next? A triplane built by me with perfect wing alignment and correct angles of incidence
(No, don't worry, it won't be that bad, I promise )
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Old Dec 19, 2005, 04:53 PM
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Very interesting Edi. As far as I can tell, this will be only the 3rd (published at least) flying design for the Albatros Dr1. There was Walter Muscanio's control line version in 1948. Then mine in 2003/2004, and now Kurt's. This one will only be the 2nd RC version. It'll be interesting to watch the build and to see how it compares to mine. Mine certainly was not designed to be a quick build, but it does build into a very nice flying and good looking model.
I've probably got around 100 flights on mine so far. I've progressed from just stooging around to pretty much wringing it out when I want to. Rolls, loops, wing overs, etc are no problem. The really fun thing to do is what I call a control line turn. With no dihedral, rudder inputs cause an absolutely flat skidding turn with no bank at all. Pretty neat. I'm still having a great time flying it.

What is the scale of Kurt's? What did he use for the reference?
I wonder if there's any chance I could get a copy of the plans to compare with mine? I always like to study how others approached the same problem.

Jim
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Old Dec 19, 2005, 04:56 PM
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BTW, feel free to use the covering files I've got posted on my website. As far as I can determine, there was only one built, so you'll have to do the lozenges if you want to be accurate. With three wings, printing on to tissue will be orders of magnitude easier than trying to paint!

The files are located at: http://www.jrshorner.com/Planes/Alba...les/Coverings/


Jim
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Old Dec 19, 2005, 05:37 PM
edi
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Jim, what you call a control line turn was something the Fokker Dr.1 was famous for. However, I have stopped doing them since I did one with slightly too little air under the wings
Thanks for offering your lozenge files; they look great and I'll definitely do lozenges. What did you print yours on? I have tried once to print it on polyspan but it was way too blurred and the ink wouldn't stick on litespan. However, the lozenge can be done with only three colors and three templates, so I am considering cutting slices of litespan ironing one over the other or painting them in a way similar to way I did it on my Fokker D.VIII.
The fuselage, LG and tailplane made it from the D.Va design which is 1/10 scale. The references are two pics we have found of the original bird (you had sent them to me once), as it seems these were the only pics. Then it was guesswork and comparing rib spacings as the technical data in "Triplanes" (which has one of those pics, too) was obviously incorrect w.r. to the wingspan.
You can find teasers of the plans on Kurt's forum in http://www.bengco.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/...1131734964/0#0

Edi
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Old Dec 20, 2005, 10:50 AM
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AerodromeRC Albatros Dr.I vs Horner's Albatros Dr.I

Jim,

When Edi asked me to consider the Dr.I mod of my earlier DVa, I initially wasn't too interested. I didn't want a "me too" of your Dr.I. However, as we discussed it, I gradually fell into the challenge part of the design. I knew that there was not much information on the aircraft and that the traditional references e.g. three views were not avialable. I had been aware of your excellent model and wanted to offer something different. I therefore made it a point not to consult your free plans to guard against the situation where I could be influenced away from a completely "Bengtson" design. For the Dr.I, the wings and LG were the major changes from the DVa and using the various photos available and specs from the original, it was possible to determine the wing layout without consulting yours. I took a look at your wing design today and compared it to mine. We did approach them differently. Our wing tips are different, we have a different number of ribs, aileron area is larger in yours as are the number of ribs in the ailerons. I used my precut ply trialing edges with smaller scallops than you had. My IP struts pass right through the spars. Yes, right though! My mid wing has a rather different transition into the fusleage with ribs at half spacing. Our airfoils are different. I used the same size laser cut balsa parts for my twin spars as well as the leading edge. Of course, my fuselage has my DVa structure, being Former/Stringer/Four Keels to be planked or sheeted. It does also feature a removable dummy engine similar to my Pfalz DIIIa. The landing gear and cabane attachment points changed per the photos. This process did bring me into a new level of design where I can now feel comfortable going from photos to model and not be as dependent on three views.

--Kurt
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Old Dec 20, 2005, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengtson
Jim,

I knew that there was not much information on the aircraft and that the traditional references e.g. three views were not avialable. --Kurt
Kurt,

I look forward to seeing more about the build. Actually, there are good three views available at http://www.hrunway.com/shop/index.ht...tml&lang=en-us. These are in the really nice Albatros Experimentals from the Windsock datafile series of Albatros Productions. Those were my primary reference.

Jim
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Old Dec 20, 2005, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edi
Jim, what you call a control line turn was something the Fokker Dr.1 was famous for. However, I have stopped doing them since I did one with slightly too little air under the wings
Thanks for offering your lozenge files; they look great and I'll definitely do lozenges. What did you print yours on? I have tried once to print it on polyspan but it was way too blurred and the ink wouldn't stick on litespan. However, the lozenge can be done with only three colors and three templates, so I am considering cutting slices of litespan ironing one over the other or painting them in a way similar to way I did it on my Fokker D.VIII.
The fuselage, LG and tailplane made it from the D.Va design which is 1/10 scale. The references are two pics we have found of the original bird (you had sent them to me once), as it seems these were the only pics. Then it was guesswork and comparing rib spacings as the technical data in "Triplanes" (which has one of those pics, too) was obviously incorrect w.r. to the wingspan.
You can find teasers of the plans on Kurt's forum in http://www.bengco.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/...1131734964/0#0

Edi
Edi,

I printed onto tissue. Of course I taped the tissue to a backer paper before running it thru the printer. Use a glue stick to attach the tissue to the frames (Do a good job of getting the wrinkles out). Then use alcholol to shrink the tissue tight and apply three or four coats of 50-50 dope. Nothing to it, and it gives a great finish. I'd never try to paint the lozenges on all three wings. At 1/10 scale, you'll have to find some way to print at reduced size. The other advantage of using my files is that you can take advantage of my work in putting the Albatros logo on the rudder.

Jim
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Old Dec 20, 2005, 09:25 PM
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Jim,
"If it was a snake, it would have bitten me." I never thought that my favorite source of information would have data on the Dr.I. Where's my credit card...
Thanks,
Kurt
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Old Dec 21, 2005, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Bengtson
Jim,
"If it was a snake, it would have bitten me." I never thought that my favorite source of information would have data on the Dr.I. Where's my credit card...
Thanks,
Kurt

Ah well.

I do think the drawings are not completely accurate. The cut outs in the bottom wing are shown as being similar to the middle wing, and the photographs clearly show (to me at least) a rectangular shaped cuttout. Looks like you came to the same conclusion as I did from the photos.

I'm thinking of someday doing the Albatros Dr2 which is in there also. So far, all I've built is triplanes. I've got my own design Albatros Dr1, I've built the Dare Fokker Dr1 (heavily modified), and I'm working on the Dare Sopwith triplane (also modified a bit). I've had the two Dare kits for a few years, but I'm getting the itch to do an own design again. I get a lot more satisfaction out of designing and building than building someone else's design. I find that I'm not ever really satisfied with how someone else did a design. The Albatros Dr2 looks interesting. On the other hand, I've got this great design for an Albatros DV fuse laying around complete with all of the molds for spinner, engine cylinders, and fuse sheeting plug. I probably should go ahead and make some wings for the DV. In essence, I'm gonna go the opposite way you did... Triplane to DV instead of DV to triplane.

There's always the Johns 7 wing multiplane also....!

Jim
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Old Dec 21, 2005, 05:43 AM
edi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhorner
There's always the Johns 7 wing multiplane also....!
Hey, you are talking about a dream here! I only have the pics which appeared in "Triplanes" which should be sufficient. However, if you have any other source of information, please let me know. Seven wings , two elevators and three engines and rudders ... how many planes would others build from that (hey, even if they took one engine per plane at least one of them would be a triplane!) ... droool ...

BTW, I have built a Fokker V.8 from depron almost a year ago and I'll definitely do it again from balsa (right now I have had my share of Fokker Dr.1 wings). There have been some lessons from that one ...

Don't get confused, Jim, triplanes are the way to go!
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Old Dec 21, 2005, 06:14 PM
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Edi,

No, I don't have any additional sources of info on the Johns Multiplane. I've got both the Triplanes book as well as the Fighting Triplanes book. They both have the same pictures. However, it looks like there should be enough info to draw up some plans. I'll probably be tackling that one of these days. My tentative plan is to first try to produce some three views from the picts, then I'll build a 3D model in the CAD program and adjust things so that it looks similar to the photos as similar viewing angles. From there, I'll take the corrected 3 views and drawings and draw up some plans. Who knows, perhaps I'll work on that during the holidays.

Jim
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Old Dec 26, 2005, 07:42 PM
edi
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Well, please keep us posted. Whenever I'll be in a mood for seven wings and a forest of struts, I might tackle this one, too. (One day I surely will.)
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Old Dec 29, 2005, 04:21 PM
edi
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I have started with the top wing. The wings have two balsa spars and a two-part ply trailing edge. Unlike many of Kurt's kits, the spars are supplied and have to be glued together (you can see the joint on the first pic). These spars also have the pre-cut holes for the cabane and IP struts and take a balsa reinforcement. Into the holes, little tubes (brass or plastic) are glued and the struts themselves are made from carbon rod or music wire (they will be sheeted with balsa). Unlike many of Kurt's kits (especially the earlier ones), the wing tips are not pieces of balsa sheet, but thin "skeletons" made of two layers of 1/16" balsa and 1/8" ply respectively giving them a less bulky and much nicer look. The pieces fall pretty much together. This looks like a very, very nice kit, Kurt!
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Old Jan 01, 2006, 06:15 AM
edi
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Since I was still (or again) too ill to go anywhere I just had fun by myself. So here are the wings. If you count them carefully you will see there are three of them which is allegedly the ideal number if you build a triplane

The ply ribs sticking out of the bottom wing (the one with the square cut-out) are only dry-fit. I will glue them in place only after the wing is at least sanded, but probably only after the covering.
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