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Old Dec 18, 2005, 09:47 AM
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MRM1 & Guapoman2000 PAM Tiger Moth Build & Flight Report

Hi there....

Mike (mrm1) and I (Guapoman2000) has undertaken a new jorney to setup the Pacific Aero Models Tiger Moth 30 into an electric scale flying machine(s).

Mike will provide with detail setups using the Brushless motor setup and I will detail the power setup of that using an inexpensive yet effective (proven) brushed motor.

Stay tuned!
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Old Dec 18, 2005, 08:00 PM
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Hey, finally got enough sleep and honey do's around the house such that I am back and working on two models,

The Pacific Aero Models Tiger Moth 30 "and" the Lanier 21st Century Citabria 40 size!

Will post pictures soon!
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Old Dec 18, 2005, 09:39 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
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Does that mean you are now on it fast and furious?

You will undoubtedly finish before me. I have not as of yet recieved mine. Well actually I did recieve it, but it was the wrong color for my tastes so I sold it and ordered another. I hope to have it in hand by early this week.

It has good reviews and everyone seems to love it here in RCG. I really Cant wait I told Carlos I would not have time until after the new year to start, but i think now I will find it

Complete Review:
http://www.winnerrc.com/Arfairplane/...0MOTH%2030.pdf
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Old Dec 18, 2005, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm1
Does that mean you are now on it fast and furious?

You will undoubtedly finish before me. I have not as of yet recieved mine. Well actually I did recieve it, but it was the wrong color for my tastes so I sold it and ordered another. I hope to have it in hand by early this week.

It has good reviews and everyone seems to love it here in RCG. I really Cant wait I told Carlos I would not have time until after the new year to start, but i think now I will find it

Complete Review:
http://www.winnerrc.com/Arfairplane/...0MOTH%2030.pdf
Thanks Mike,

That review has some neat pic's and yes, I am on it as much as tonight will allow since I have to go back to work on Monday as I don't have any leave to take for these holidays...I may take some sick leave to finish this wonderful and graceful model.

My Camera ran out of batteries so, they are charging as I work on my (formerly yours ) all "Yellow" Tiger!

Later!
Carlos
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Old Dec 18, 2005, 09:55 PM
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My Expected Set Up

Here is what I plan to try in the Tiger Moth at the start.

I am ordering or have on order:

1. Himax 3528-0800 outrunner. This I hope will produce good thrust and moderate prop speed. This plane is a slow flyer, but I want the extra power for pulling out of tight spots. If for some reason this motor does not perform up to my likeing, I will order a Hacker A30-8xl and prop it for max airspeed.

2. I am going to load it with a choice of either the Poly Quest Hi-Po Lipo 4400 16c 3s pack, or 2 TP Pro-lite 2100 15c packs. PQ should be here early next week.

3. because this is a 4 servo model, I will use the Hacker X40 which has given me excellent service in the Stevens Aero Cap 232 .40e. I had heat issues with the 45amp Castle Creations on 4 servos.

4. I will be using the Hitec HS-81's and 1 futaba S3108 for servos or I may use some GWS Naro Pros I have.

5. I am looking at swinging a 13x6.5 prop on the Himax motor. Considering a wooden prop for that real scale look.

6. and will stay connected to the plane with hte HiTec Electron 6 RX.

I will post motor mount conversion pics as available
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Old Dec 18, 2005, 10:10 PM
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Carlos, what are you thinking about for a wood prop?? I have no experience with who's to buy.
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Old Dec 18, 2005, 10:15 PM
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I have read in most build threads that when convering to electric, this model needs either the batteries mounted infront of the FW or nose weight to balance.

I was thinking of using a heavy weight spinner to balance the plane. One of those smaller, but heavy spinner/nuts.
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Old Dec 19, 2005, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm1
Here is what I plan to try in the Tiger Moth at the start.

I am ordering or have on order:

1. Himax 3528-0800 outrunner. This I hope will produce good thrust and moderate prop speed. This plane is a slow flyer, but I want the extra power for pulling out of tight spots. If for some reason this motor does not perform up to my likeing, I will order a Hacker A30-8xl and prop it for max airspeed.

I will post motor mount conversion pics as available
1. I performed a comparision between the your suggested Outrunner HC3528-800 "and" the in-runner HA3630-0780.

HC3528-800 has Io=1.7, Ra=.031, Kv=800

HA3630-780 has Io=0.70, Ra=.085, Kv=780

Using the formula:
P(out)=(Volts(in) - [Ra*Amps]) X (Amps-Io)

You will noticed that for a given AMP draw the Outrunner you have selected has a better efficiency at 35 AMPs and Volts(in)= 12.5Volts, therefore, provides much more Watts Out (Transfers most of the energy into mechanical power).

Given: Volts(in)=12.5Volts to the motor assuming 4S (I took off a little for internal resistance of battery).
AMPs = 35 AMPs @ Wide Open

Power(In)= Volts(In) X AMPs = (12.5)X(35)=437.5 Watts

Therefore,

Power(Out-Outrunner) = 380.12 Watts

Power(In-Runner) = 326 Watts

Motor Efficiency = Power(Out) / Power(In)

Without doing the calculations, it is obvious which wins here......your Outrunner.

However, both have almost the same RPM/Volt (Kv) such that to get any respectable RPM at the Propeller you would need at least 4S type of Li-POLY???
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Old Dec 19, 2005, 05:54 AM
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2. This leads to my question on your item (2.), what Li-POLY arrangement were you thinking for this power system, a 4S? I noticed you indicated a 3S pack but, would that be pretty low RPM's at the Propeller....?

Lets see.....

RPM = (Volts(in) - [Ra*Amps]) X Kv

Recall your Himax HC3528-800 has Ra=.031
3S equates to 10 Volts at the Motor for calculations purposes.
Using the AMPs obtained from the HA3630 motor...so, perhaps a little error here...

With the 3S, the P-Calc indicates that you will have 10 Volts to Motor and about 24 AMPs @ Wide open.

Therefore, RPM = (10-[.031*24])X800= 7,404 RPM

This might be enough assuming a 4lbs model and bi-plane.

If you look at the P-Calc, just a little over 3 lbs. of static thrust....it will fly but, very scale like, IMO.

Again, the above is an approximation and using AMP values from a different motor so, perhaps you will be okay with 3S Li-POLYs...I would certainly measure the Prop RPMs.

I used the following Web Site to come up with the dirty and quick calculations:

http://members.aol.com/kmyersefo/page17.htm

Carlos
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Old Dec 19, 2005, 05:59 AM
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Ops....I just saw that you are thinking of using the APC 13 X 6.5 Propeller (The wooden Prop, yes, I will let you know).

Here's the P-Calc using the 13 X 6.5 and 3S Li-POLYs with the In-Runner HA3630-780...being that your outrunner will be much more efficient, I am expecting even better values!
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Old Dec 19, 2005, 11:31 AM
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Yes Carlos, I saw that in motocalc too with this 800 kv motor. But it was either get the 800 kv and prop up, or the 1000 and prop down or use a larger ESC (60amps). I decided on the 800 because if it does not work to my liking in the TM, I can still get the 1000 kv motor and then use the 800 in the fun world with a 15" prop and still not exceed the amps rating of a 40amp controller.

Can you say "Slow Fly... Max Thrust"

My target prop for the Tiger Moth with the 800kv motor is the 13x6.5. I can go up to a 13x10 and increase amps and watts.

Doc-e seems to think it might also be possible to swing a 14" prop on this model with out doing mods to the LG. What is your take on that (since I do not yet have mine in hand to measure it)

Mike
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Old Dec 19, 2005, 11:37 AM
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You guys are on the way, cool!

Did you see this offering from Hobby Lobby?

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/tigermoth.htm

John and Christo
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Old Dec 19, 2005, 01:04 PM
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Yes, I oppted against it because my wife had already ordered mine. And upon further inspection, the PAC TM looks to be of a little better quality and detail and the HL only comes in Silver.

Just got the new Poly Quest 3s 4400 pac and the HiTec Optic 6 with Spectra Module Radio. Santa came in a Yellow DHL truck.

Mike
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Old Dec 19, 2005, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm1
Yes, I oppted against it because my wife had already ordered mine. And upon further inspection, the PAC TM looks to be of a little better quality and detail and the HL only comes in Silver.

Just got the new Poly Quest 3s 4400 pac and the HiTec Optic 6 with Spectra Module Radio. Santa came in a Yellow DHL truck.

Mike
Mike you lucky dog you!

Your wife ordered it awesome. So with the Spectra, no more pin problems?

John and Christo
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Old Dec 19, 2005, 03:35 PM
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No more pin problems from a TX point of view. I just have to have the RX crystals. But when I get my electron 6 I will be on 3 diff channels
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