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Old Dec 13, 2005, 05:06 AM
Future NFL Champs
Fiasco's Avatar
High Ridge, Mo USA
Joined May 2002
1,657 Posts
Rant
CBP: You get what your pay for.... or do you?

I'll never patronize cheapbatterypacks again.

On Sunday Jun12 2005 I ordered 2 4S iRate 1800 packs for $133.90 from cheapbatterypacks.com for a 4S Razor 2500 powered GWS A-10. I set the packs aside while I built the plane after testing them briefly.

Just over 30 days later after assembling the plane I put the packs in and bench tested hooked to my e-meter. The batteries would not sustain voltage only providing about 5 amps before hitting their 12.0v cutoff. I contacted CBP on July 21, 2005 and sent them back in for repair. On July 30, 2005 I got an email saying that my PCB boards had shorts in them. Mike said he would get PCB board from the manufacturer and fix the packs and send them back.

After numerous emails and much time (and anxiety, I wanted to fly my hot new GWS a-10 before it got too cold) on Sept 30 I decided to opt for a reduced price offer to purchase the same packs as replacements and on Oct 04, 2005 I purchased 2 new packs for $80 ($87 w/ shipping)

On Oct 29, 2005 I emailed CBP again because the packs came no where remotely close to delivering the 12C claim boasted on the CBP website. Trying to pull 18 amps continuous had the packs dipping below 12.0V in short order. I sent the replacement packs back on Nov 01, 2005 and get a refund of the $80.

So, the end result is CBP kept my defective packs with bad PCB boards (I could have at least salvaged the cells which were not defective) AND the $133.90 I spent on them.

So, the end result is CBP got $133.90 (+ various shipping charges to return packs) and I got absolutely nothing to show for it. On Sept 5 2005 I made the following post (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412740) because I was debating on trying to solve the situation amicably with CBP and was looking for others experiences with them. No overtly negative responses were received. I should have not trusted in finding an equitable solution with CBP and disputed the charge with my credit card company right off the bat.

Thanks for nothing CBP.

On Oct 31 2005 I ordered real battery packs from Tanic to power the A-10 (4S 3250 15-20C) for $165.00 and these batteries kick ass. I'll never stray from Tanic or ThunderPower again!

The A-10 certainly ended up being an expensive plane to power costing well in excess of $300 just for batteries.
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Old Dec 13, 2005, 06:45 AM
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vintage1's Avatar
East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
29,687 Posts
I have had nothing but good service from Mike, myself.

The old Irate cells were exccellent 8-10C cells, very light, and I made up my own packs with them.

Polyquest? at that point Mike was forced to buy in pre-made packs from eneraland like everyine else, and enerland eventuially canned all their small distibutors and gave the franchise to hobby-lobby.

The second generation cells were IMHO heavier, and did not meet specs, and the factory build quality is poor.

I should contact Mike again, and see if you can do what I did, and pick up his last stock of OLD style Irate 1800 cells, and make yourself a 4s pack of those. At 9.99 each they don't come much cheaper, and you should end up with a relaible 16-18A pack.

At least you can take the time to get your solder joints robust, unlike the pack manufacturer..

I would hesitate to operate them at more than 8C continuosly though..if you want 20A plus use the last of his 1100 cells and make a 4s2p pack..

Polyquest/Enerland seem to have dumped on quality, and price, and on their distributors. Mike probably cannot actually GET you replacements.

I got email from him yeserday about some new cheap cells ..It's likely if you approach him you might get a new pack of these...1900 or 2100 cells should just about see you through to 20A peak. At decent voltage.

Mike has never to my knowledge claimed for his own brand stuff what it could not deliver: Polyquest however is what Enerland claimed it could do. You are not the only one to discover it falls a little short of expectations.
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Old Dec 13, 2005, 09:52 AM
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Boston, MA subburb
Joined Sep 2004
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Fiasco,
There has got to be some piece of the puzzle you're not telling us. No supplier stays in business very long if he does not refund the majority of the purchase price when a defective part is returned. Were the cells damaged in transit? Did you get authorization to return them before sending them out?

Sounds like you purchased a second pack for $80 in addition to the first pack for $133. Was the reduced price of $80 somehow tied to the original purchase? Is Mike still trying to replace the defective PC board on your original purchase?

Alan
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Old Dec 13, 2005, 10:52 AM
luc
I plant balsa sticks too
luc's Avatar
France
Joined Feb 2000
3,585 Posts
yep, only good comments related to Mike.
And I still use Irate cells of the old previous configuration (flat ones).
Mike is very responsive and honest.
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Old Dec 13, 2005, 11:08 AM
Flying motor mount master
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San Jose, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
8,745 Posts
I've had nothing but top rate service from Mike and very fast shipping. I bought 8S from him to make 4S2P packs which will hopefully deliver 30A without a problem.

Price was right and service was great!!!
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Old Dec 13, 2005, 01:45 PM
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Mid-Michigan
Joined Aug 2002
2,178 Posts
Agree that CBP has provided highest quality products and excellent service for me for a coupla years now. I've spent well over $1000 with Mike and see no reason that I should not continue to buy from him. (Except I won't touch TP with a ten foot pole.)
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Old Dec 13, 2005, 02:38 PM
A Clinger
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Butte, MT
Joined Sep 2001
7,070 Posts
Always good service here too. And he has some new Irates for custom make too. Custom Irate Packs
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Old Dec 13, 2005, 07:24 PM
Watts your motivation
roccobro's Avatar
San Bernardino, CA
Joined Aug 2003
6,512 Posts
Fiasco- weren't those 1800 cells PQ 12C stuff? I had the same packs as your Pre-Tanic setup. At first all the hype ont hem (when new ) were good. Then it was common knowledge that those sized PQ's dropped voltage pretty bad.

Although this doesn't explain or excuse your pcb damaged stuff. Were those custom made?

Vintage- I did buy some of those $9.99 1800 cells. These are not the same size as the old 10c iRate stuff, or the 1800 12c PQ's. Not the deal I had in my head. and probably will not use them with my discount TP's working so well.

Justin
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Old Dec 14, 2005, 03:10 AM
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Fiasco's Avatar
High Ridge, Mo USA
Joined May 2002
1,657 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Offt
Fiasco,
There has got to be some piece of the puzzle you're not telling us. No supplier stays in business very long if he does not refund the majority of the purchase price when a defective part is returned. Were the cells damaged in transit? Did you get authorization to return them before sending them out?

Sounds like you purchased a second pack for $80 in addition to the first pack for $133. Was the reduced price of $80 somehow tied to the original purchase? Is Mike still trying to replace the defective PC board on your original purchase?

Alan
Yes, the $80 packs were tied to the original $133 purchase. However they didn't perform very well and I returned them and got that $80 back.

I have no idea what happened to the original packs I sent back.
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Old Dec 14, 2005, 03:14 AM
Future NFL Champs
Fiasco's Avatar
High Ridge, Mo USA
Joined May 2002
1,657 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by roccobro
Fiasco- weren't those 1800 cells PQ 12C stuff? I had the same packs as your Pre-Tanic setup. At first all the hype ont hem (when new ) were good. Then it was common knowledge that those sized PQ's dropped voltage pretty bad.

Although this doesn't explain or excuse your pcb damaged stuff. Were those custom made?

Vintage- I did buy some of those $9.99 1800 cells. These are not the same size as the old 10c iRate stuff, or the 1800 12c PQ's. Not the deal I had in my head. and probably will not use them with my discount TP's working so well.

Justin
If it was common knowledge that those sized PQ's couldn't deliver 12C they shouldn't have been listed on the website as being able to do so.
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Old Dec 14, 2005, 03:27 AM
Watts your motivation
roccobro's Avatar
San Bernardino, CA
Joined Aug 2003
6,512 Posts
I agree. But then why do they call and state that the current crop of PQ are "twenty" when they are really 15C's? PQ's were OK cells and with CBP's prices I kept comming back. Hindsight is always 20/20 and I have high hopes for all my purchases before they prove my wrong. I don't have to worry about them anymore because their cost to value ratio is very poor and can only be bought from one place (HL).

Justin
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Old Dec 14, 2005, 04:07 AM
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Kalamaki, Greece
Joined Mar 2004
317 Posts
I've had no problems with my CBP purchases, even when you consider the fact that mike ships my stuff to europe. All my packs and loose cells (mostly) arrived on time and in good condition.
As for trusting PQ or any other manufacturers claims about C ratings, thats a no no.. I check out the forum's battery graph vault first, scan for other ursers' comments and then proceed to buy.

As for the iRates, I made two 2S packs 880 and two 3Spacks 2200 from bare cells.
The 880s are good for 6-7amps while the 2200 to 16-17 amps which is what mike mentioned on his site.
As a general rule, I prefer to use my packs at a max of 70% their rated C, so if a pack claims a sustained 10amps, I drive it up to 7amps.
So far I've not had a pack fail and been using lipos for more than a year with some of them having 200cycles or more.
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Old Dec 14, 2005, 05:01 AM
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East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
29,687 Posts
Yes..derating is the key to satisfaction. It took me a while to realise that '10C capable' means

"If you dischrage the pack at 10C we guarntee i9 out of ten packs wont burst into flames; and will take a charge again"

And the bit they don't say

"we don't gurabtee what voltage or capacity you will get at 10C, or how many times you will be able to charge it up again"



Mikes packs have been fairly honsetly described: His latest 'Irate' cells seem to be honest 8C cells, with 10-12C available for short periods.

But at half the price of the competition, thats fine by me.
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Old Dec 14, 2005, 05:08 AM
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Joined Jan 2002
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I've had good luck with my original iRate 2200s amd 2600s.

On one occasion, I ordered the wrong planform (there was an overlap, for awhile) and Mike took them back, refunding the full purchase price INCLUDING SHIPPING, which I had offered to pay because it was my mistake.

On another occasion Mike replaced a 2600 cell, to which he had soldered wires only, i.e., not a complete pack because I don't fly conventional packs, when it swelled.

- RD
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Old Dec 14, 2005, 08:20 AM
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Boston, MA subburb
Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiasco
Yes, the $80 packs were tied to the original $133 purchase. However they didn't perform very well and I returned them and got that $80 back.

I have no idea what happened to the original packs I sent back.
Fiasco,
I'm still missing a piece of the puzzle.
Why did Mike give you a $53 ($133-$80) consideration on the returned cells and not a full refund?
or
What did Mike say when you requested a refund of your original $133 purchase?

Alan
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