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Old Dec 12, 2005, 03:23 AM
Watts your motivation
roccobro's Avatar
San Bernardino, CA
Joined Aug 2003
6,512 Posts
Why would an ESC burn up with power but no signal?

I just had an issue with my TP 10A ESC's last night wire in parallel for my GWS A-10 on a TP G2 3s1900, wattmeter and AF servo tester for signal. One motor/fan combo would run fine and the other would stutter and then stop. After unplugging the battery, I unplugged the rx plug from the "good" esc and connected the batt again. I ran the "bad" ESC up (pulled 3.6A at stutter) and shut it off. The ESC needed to be re-armed so I unplugged the batt (connected to both ESC's still) and plugged it back in. Seconds later the "good" ESC with signal wire still disconnected went up in flames.

Looks like the big component (a round capacitor on CC stuff) between the + and - batt wires blew. Numbers on the intact ESC's component reads: 226C and 901k2, and Digikey lists the 226C as a ceramic capacitor.

Anybody know what would cause this to happen? I haven't heard of anything specific like this happening with the Tower Pro stuff, but have smoked another TP 10A on a CD/EDF motor run up to 8A where it then stuttered and ESC smoked (which works still but not very well). I need to find an answer as I'd like to learn from this mistake/problem. I really don't want to make the same "mistake" when I put some CC P-10's in as replacements.

Justin
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Old Dec 12, 2005, 05:35 AM
know it all
Miami, Fl
Joined Nov 2003
2,949 Posts
the big capacitor blew because you have too much wire in-between the esc and the battery.. usually this is the reason.. could have been defective also. Replace with a low ESR power capacitor.. dont keep using the esc without it or you will damage the fets. The extra wire length of the wattmeter could have done it, in combination with an undersized input capacitor.

I added extra caps to my two escs in my twin Hobico Twinstar.. lipo pack is in the middle of the fuselage, escs are out with the motors in the nacelles, that took about an extra foot of wiring thus requiring the extra caps.

this thread goes into it a bit:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=424793

Herm

Quote:
Originally Posted by roccobro
Looks like the big component (a round capacitor on CC stuff) between the + and - batt wires blew.
Justin
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Last edited by hermperez; Dec 12, 2005 at 05:43 AM.
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Old Dec 12, 2005, 05:41 AM
know it all
Miami, Fl
Joined Nov 2003
2,949 Posts
from the pictures, this brushless esc does not have a big electrolitic capacitor in between the battery power leads?, that would be an unusual design. add a cap if that is the case.. or buy a CC phoenix 10

Herm
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Old Dec 12, 2005, 01:37 PM
Watts your motivation
roccobro's Avatar
San Bernardino, CA
Joined Aug 2003
6,512 Posts
Herm- Thanks for the reply. I've heard long battery leads could lead to damage from ripple effect. I just didn't think it would happen without some kind of input to the ESC.

The capacitor on the TP ESC shown is a ceramic capacitor according to the part number. This replacement one is easier to find but is rated for 16V (could be some of the cause?)

I've been reading your cited threads, and looking through mouser and digikey. I've also pulled a P-10 out to check it's electrolytic capacitor. The P-10 has this info on it "A0444, 105deg, 35v, 68uf, ZLH" I have found 35v round capacitors, but none with the same uf number. What is it and would higher or lower # be better to add on?

I'd have to buy alot of these caps to make the $6 shipping cost effective (10 caps are $6.50). New these ESC's are $25 and my last P-10's were $33.

Justin
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Old Dec 12, 2005, 02:03 PM
Flying motor mount master
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San Jose, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
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My experience with two of the TP15A ESC's have been less then stellar. I think the PWM freq is somewhere near 8 and you can tell the difference between it and any CC product. I have a very hard time powering up home built motors with them and even when I do a VERY slow startup they stutter and get going but they don't seem to have the top end of a CC ESC.

I thought it was just one bad TP ESC but after having the same sort of experience with two...

I am going to do some tests with ready to buy motors and see what happens vs CC-25 which I have handy.

The other thing I don't like about them is they have very short battery leads and very short ESC leads. I dont' know if this is a cost savings or to reduce any resistence because of their design...
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Old Dec 12, 2005, 02:11 PM
Watts your motivation
roccobro's Avatar
San Bernardino, CA
Joined Aug 2003
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FB- Alot of your comments are exactly what I have seen. CD motor use is hampered, and the short motor leads led to extensions that now seem too long. The only app that has one of the ESC's and is working flawless is a 10A in a GWS Corsair running a BP-21 motor with 8040 prop on 3s. Static it pulls 12A but in flight it has yet to have a hickup. I'm basically 3 in 6 with these guys being trouble.

Justin
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Old Dec 12, 2005, 02:12 PM
Flying motor mount master
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San Jose, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
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I forgot to mention that most motors I've tried have this weird half throttle stumble. So I think the programming is flawed somehow as the throttle curve is not very linear.

I'm guessing it has to do with frequency but .......
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Old Dec 12, 2005, 02:13 PM
know it all
Miami, Fl
Joined Nov 2003
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the key is to look for low ESR (effective series resistance) caps, twice the working voltage (for 3s at least 24volts) and 68uh like CC uses.. bigger is better. A normal capacitor will blow up like pop-corn. The shipping hurts, but maybe you can get something else?

Did you see the neat way the caps are wired right to the power wires?, the closer to the esc the better.

send me a link when you find one so I can check it out..

$30 for a CC P10?, thats not bad!

BTW, I'm going to wire in one of those caps into my wattmeter, you never know.

Herm
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Old Dec 12, 2005, 04:55 PM
Watts your motivation
roccobro's Avatar
San Bernardino, CA
Joined Aug 2003
6,512 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hermperez
and 68uh like CC uses.. bigger is better. A normal capacitor will blow up like pop-corn.
Herm
So 100 uF is better than the 68? I don't mind spending $10 to learn more and save a couple other ESC's. I do enjoy soldering (I was a welder at one point) and I like the look of those cap pictured next to the board. I'm figuring some nice round caps would be better/prettier than the block ceramic types. Maybe get both.

Thanks for the help guys, I'd like to learn more so post away!

Justin
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Old Dec 12, 2005, 10:31 PM
know it all
Miami, Fl
Joined Nov 2003
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bigger is better, my cc phoenix 25 uses a single 330uf.. just use what the phoenix 10 uses..just make sure they are low ESR types..

Herm

Quote:
Originally Posted by roccobro
So 100 uF is better than the 68?

Thanks for the help guys, I'd like to learn more so post away!

Justin
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Old Dec 12, 2005, 10:42 PM
Watts your motivation
roccobro's Avatar
San Bernardino, CA
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Thanks again Herm. What does uF stand for?

Justin
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Old Dec 13, 2005, 12:44 AM
Lawn darts, anyone?
Long Island, NY U.S.A.
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uF=MicroFarad
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Old Dec 13, 2005, 12:46 AM
Watts your motivation
roccobro's Avatar
San Bernardino, CA
Joined Aug 2003
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Sad, it still means nothing to me. I'm suck a doof.

Thanks JB.

Justin
(off to buy some caps)
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Last edited by roccobro; Dec 13, 2005 at 01:09 AM.
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Old Dec 13, 2005, 01:29 AM
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Caps are designed to hold electrical energy, somewhat like a battery, but not really. A farad is the measure of how much energy can be stored in a given cap.
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Old Dec 13, 2005, 01:46 AM
Watts your motivation
roccobro's Avatar
San Bernardino, CA
Joined Aug 2003
6,512 Posts
Thanks Rhashime. I'm not finding what I'd like to buy (radial, 105*, 36V, 100uF, low ESR caps) for my upgrade/repairs yet.

Any other places to look besides mouser and digikey?

Justin
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